Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Quin]

Now, objectively speaking, it would be hysterical for the Sox to reacquire Madrigal and for him to tear it up after listening to Cubs fans say that Madrigal was "payback" for the Quintana trade.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Quin said:

Now, objectively speaking, it would be hysterical for the Sox to reacquire Madrigal and for him to tear it up after listening to Cubs fans say that Madrigal was "payback" for the Quintana trade.

That would be awesome lol but don’t think he’s coming back

[ChiSox59]

13 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

The obsession with former players is really weird. Forget a guy with legit potential like Sosa…I’m not even sure there’s any guarantee Madrigal would be more productive than Hansel Alberto next year. 
 

IF (he doesn’t) Hahn wanted to give up assets for a 2B he could do a lot better than Madrigal 

I do agree that this fanbase gets a bit carried away with former players, and Cubs players.  I think most fanbases do similar things - fans generally gravitate to what they are most familiar with.

As for Madrigal, he is not a guy I would be targeting.  There are definitely better options - someone like Joey Wendle would be great.  But Wendle is probably not available with Jazz moving to CF.  Madrigal is definitely available.  

I do think Madrigal is an improvement on the current options....at the moment.  If the sox acquired him for like....Andrew Dalquist, I'd be fine with it.  Romy is almost certainly just a guy.  We all know what Leury is.  I think 2B is Sosa's eventually, but he's probably not ready yet and could use more time in the minors.    

[pcq]

The final move should be the owner retiring. He may not be selling but he is certainly ready for retirement age-wise.

[LittleHurtCG]

16 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

If they actually trade something for Madrigal....this is officially the worst off-season in White Sox history.

For real. Hard to believe we are debating having pee wee Madrigal back on the South Side. Still pisses me off that they tanked the whole 2017 season just to use the pick on Madrigal. You never use a top 5 pick on a college player who can barely clear the fences during batting practice. 

[flavum]

8 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

For real. Hard to believe we are debating having pee wee Madrigal back on the South Side. Still pisses me off that they tanked the whole 2017 season just to use the pick on Madrigal. You never use a top 5 pick on a college player who can barely clear the fences during batting practice. 

When the drafted Madrigal, they were also trying to trade for Machado from Baltimore, and then also failed to get him in free agency. They figured they’d get the power bat, and that Nick would fit in as the scrappy guy that gets hits and makes the routine play. They took what they perceived as a high floor guy. Didn’t work out. 

[LittleHurtCG]

13 hours ago, greg775 said:

I'd like to reacquire Madrigal. It'd remind me of the good ol days when Sox were considered can't miss playoff team/likely WS winner in coming years. Might reverse the bad karma.

Ha. I remember those days as well. Too bad the passing of time showed that the emperor had no clothes, and the FO plan to just try to copy the homework off the smart kids in class was bound to fail eventually. 

I fear that another tank job will be here again in the not too distant future unfortunately. It will be back to prospect hoarding and salivating over prospect lists again. 

[LittleHurtCG]

11 minutes ago, flavum said:

When the drafted Madrigal, they were also trying to trade for Machado from Baltimore, and then also failed to get him in free agency. They figured they’d get the power bat, and that Nick would fit in as the scrappy guy that gets hits and makes the routine play. They took what they perceived as a high floor guy. Didn’t work out. 

Didn't work out. That should be the motto for the Sox front office and ownership group. 

[ChiSox59]

If Elvis could be had for like 1/$3-4M to play 2B, considering the current state of the roster and external options, what would you guys think about that?  I was never for it, but as the options dwindle, it feels better than handing the job to Romy if Evlis could actually be had for $3-4M.  

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If Elvis could be had for like 1/$3-4M to play 2B, considering the current state of the roster and external options, what would you guys think about that?  I was never for it, but as the options dwindle, it feels better than handing the job to Romy if Evlis could actually be had for $3-4M.  

If the Sox aren't going to do anything for another OF, I would rather have Elvis vs Madrigal for sure if that is all they have to spend.

[SoxBlanco]

25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If Elvis could be had for like 1/$3-4M to play 2B, considering the current state of the roster and external options, what would you guys think about that?  I was never for it, but as the options dwindle, it feels better than handing the job to Romy if Evlis could actually be had for $3-4M.  

This was what I posted over a month ago, so I would definitely be fine with signing Elvis if we could get him for cheap at this point.

On 12/17/2022 at 4:39 PM, SoxBlanco said:

This would be my 2B plan moving forward:

1. Explore the trade route and hopefully something comes along that’s worth pulling the trigger on. 

2. If we’re moving into February and nothing has come to fruition on the trade front, then see if Drury or Andrus are still available. They are not players I’d sign right now, but if there’s not a market for them and they can be signed late in the offseason for less, then I would pull the trigger. 

3. If neither of the above works out, then just go with Sosa/Romy/Popeye. It’s nice that there are multiple internal options because even if one of them struggles, hopefully another will step up. 

 

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I’d take him if it was for cash considerations but I wouldn’t give up literally anything else for him (unless they wanted Leury I guess).

I’d love to be free of Leury, but I’m not even sure how much Madrigal improves this team. 

[bmags]

relevant to the madrigal stuff, a BA article just came out on whether certain struggling former top prospects could make it.

Scout’s Take: “To me, there is no MLB carrying tool because his ability to make contact is not impactful. He’s not a plus runner, he’s not a plus defender, he doesn’t have a plus arm and he doesn’t have power.

“It’s a hard profile. He’s a contact bat that doesn’t strike out but doesn’t walk. He’s not a feared hitter in a lineup. I just don’t see him as a guy who can impact the game in any way, and it’s hard for him to be a utility guy because he can’t play the left side of the infield. He can’t hit leadoff because he doesn’t get on base enough and he can’t hit second because he doesn’t run and he can’t drive a ball out of the park. So where do you put him? I just don’t see a major league role for him.”

Basically nellie fox.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/scouts-on-jo-adell-jarred-kelenic-and-other-graduated-prospects-yet-to-establish-themselves/

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

59 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If Elvis could be had for like 1/$3-4M to play 2B, considering the current state of the roster and external options, what would you guys think about that?  I was never for it, but as the options dwindle, it feels better than handing the job to Romy if Evlis could actually be had for $3-4M.  

I'd rather spend that 3-4 million on the following:  OF, SP, RP, C, Ball boy

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Nellie Fox was a 50 career WAR player

[Lip Man 1]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

relevant to the madrigal stuff, a BA article just came out on whether certain struggling former top prospects could make it.

Scout’s Take: “To me, there is no MLB carrying tool because his ability to make contact is not impactful. He’s not a plus runner, he’s not a plus defender, he doesn’t have a plus arm and he doesn’t have power.

“It’s a hard profile. He’s a contact bat that doesn’t strike out but doesn’t walk. He’s not a feared hitter in a lineup. I just don’t see him as a guy who can impact the game in any way, and it’s hard for him to be a utility guy because he can’t play the left side of the infield. He can’t hit leadoff because he doesn’t get on base enough and he can’t hit second because he doesn’t run and he can’t drive a ball out of the park. So where do you put him? I just don’t see a major league role for him.”

Basically nellie fox.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/scouts-on-jo-adell-jarred-kelenic-and-other-graduated-prospects-yet-to-establish-themselves/

Nellie Fox had a Hall of Fame career and was an M.V.P. The only way Madrigal gets into the Hall is if he buys a ticket. Laughable that you seem to discount everything Fox did because it doesn't fit today's mold of what a player should do/be. 

Personally I wish the Sox had two or three Fox's in the lineup, guys who could get on base, run, do little things to drive in runs.  In other words figure out ways to score runs when you aren't hitting home runs.

The word is balance.

[southsider2k5]

56 minutes ago, bmags said:

relevant to the madrigal stuff, a BA article just came out on whether certain struggling former top prospects could make it.

Scout’s Take: “To me, there is no MLB carrying tool because his ability to make contact is not impactful. He’s not a plus runner, he’s not a plus defender, he doesn’t have a plus arm and he doesn’t have power.

“It’s a hard profile. He’s a contact bat that doesn’t strike out but doesn’t walk. He’s not a feared hitter in a lineup. I just don’t see him as a guy who can impact the game in any way, and it’s hard for him to be a utility guy because he can’t play the left side of the infield. He can’t hit leadoff because he doesn’t get on base enough and he can’t hit second because he doesn’t run and he can’t drive a ball out of the park. So where do you put him? I just don’t see a major league role for him.”

Basically nellie fox.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/scouts-on-jo-adell-jarred-kelenic-and-other-graduated-prospects-yet-to-establish-themselves/

Look, whoever decided this was their guy blew it.  I think that Madrigal is why the Sox shook up their drafting team.  But the one thing they did right was to dump him after it became clear he wasn't who they though they were drafting.  You can argue about who they got back, but dumping him wasn't the mistake.

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Nellie Fox had a Hall of Fame career and was an M.V.P. The only way Madrigal gets into the Hall is if he buys a ticket. Laughable that you seem to discount everything Fox did because it doesn't fit today's mold of what a player should do/be. 

Personally I wish the Sox had two or three Fox's in the lineup, guys who could get on base, run, do little things to drive in runs.  In other words figure out ways to score runs when you aren't hitting home runs.

The word is balance.

That  and it isn't 1959 anymore.

[Dick Allen]

I still think Madrigal can be a decent player if he could stay healthy. That's a pretty gigantic if at this point. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

51 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'd rather spend that 3-4 million on the following:  OF, SP, RP, C, Ball boy

Not that I think he’s a good player or that he will even contribute to the big league roster…but people should look at Hansel Alberto’s #’s and then compare them to Andrus. Madrigal and whatever other mediocre/bad 2B option people are bringing up too. Alberto is the most likely the 2B if all other options fail. Hell, I’m not sure if Burger attempting to play 2B is a worse option than Andrus/Madrigal. 

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That  and it isn't 1959 anymore.

I mean, I wouldn't take three Nellie Foxes, but I would certainly take one Nellie Fox in the lineup.

The problem was Madrigal couldn't defend as well, draw walks as well, wasn't as fast nor as healthy as Nellie Fox. If Madrigal gave us 717 at-bats with a .770 OPS and gold glove defense, I think we'd all have been over the moon.

Also, Nellie Fox inspired Big League Chew, which automatically propels him to the top of the chart.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, whoever decided this was their guy blew it.  I think that Madrigal is why the Sox shook up their drafting team.  But the one thing they did right was to dump him after it became clear he wasn't who they though they were drafting.  You can argue about who they got back, but dumping him wasn't the mistake.

sox have a lot more information so it's a hellish thing to waste a 4th overall pick on a guy like this.

But I could write a book on that lead up to his draft. I was happy sox selected madrigal, you read the write-ups, and a whole bunch of things that to me were not projection were written about him. You were getting a guy who was a defensive whiz. Amazing base runner and instincts. Prodigious hit tool. Sure, lacks power but what he does have, he gets all of it. Insane makeup. (that last one is unforgiveable from Hostetlers team)

And what makes me most annoyed is these same writers started to walk back this stuff about madrigal by August (so 2 months post draft). And by time he was in charlotte, man it was clear a bunch was bullshit.

So, basically as much as he is an annoying person to read, you have to take keith law seriously. His sourced scouts are very good and critical especially against romantic stuff like madrigals grindiness.

Now, the other thing unfortunately is the 2018 draft was garbage. Some post in 5 years is gonna be like "actually Nick Madrigal had like 6th most WAR in the first round" blah blah.

[fathom]

Amazing post above by bmags 

[Dick Allen]

42 minutes ago, bmags said:

sox have a lot more information so it's a hellish thing to waste a 4th overall pick on a guy like this.

But I could write a book on that lead up to his draft. I was happy sox selected madrigal, you read the write-ups, and a whole bunch of things that to me were not projection were written about him. You were getting a guy who was a defensive whiz. Amazing base runner and instincts. Prodigious hit tool. Sure, lacks power but what he does have, he gets all of it. Insane makeup. (that last one is unforgiveable from Hostetlers team)

And what makes me most annoyed is these same writers started to walk back this stuff about madrigal by August (so 2 months post draft). And by time he was in charlotte, man it was clear a bunch was bullshit.

So, basically as much as he is an annoying person to read, you have to take keith law seriously. His sourced scouts are very good and critical especially against romantic stuff like madrigals grindiness.

Now, the other thing unfortunately is the 2018 draft was garbage. Some post in 5 years is gonna be like "actually Nick Madrigal had like 6th most WAR in the first round" blah blah.

It is amazing how the Sox always seem to have a pretty high slot in drafts that ultimately sucked.

[Quin]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It is amazing how the Sox always seem to have a pretty high slot in drafts that ultimately sucked.

Frustratingly, Rodon fell into their laps, but he needed the right pitching coach and health. They finally get him the right coach + he's healthy aaaaand he's gone.