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The Sox did stockpile talent. That talent has now graduated to the majors and makes up the core of a team that has the baseball world buzzing. And, incidentally has allowed us to take slot one talent (Vaughn) into LF while moving another talent (Collins) to DH, possibly without even reaching outside the organization. Sorry 100% of our prospects didn't pan out (which would mark the first time in history)...they never promised you a rose garden. Just a good team.

I thought I heard that the one of the strengths of this rebuild we've had to go through for the past 6 years was the large number of prospects we were stockpiling. For, you know, in case something like this happened? Well, I guess I heard wrong. Where the f%^$ is Blake Rutherford?? You know, the guy we gave up an accomplished major league hitter, (Frazier,) and half the back of our bullpen, (Robertson and Kahnle,) for? Instead we have to try and make Vaughn learn a new position on the fly as well as learn to hit major league pitching?

I don’t think you can ever dismiss the possibility of the Sox adding a shitty, aging slugger

They aren’t moving Vaughn to the outfield because they have no outfield depth. They’re moving him to get Collins in the lineup and see if it’s functional long-term because they have a Jose Abreu problem.

Prospects fail in every system... even highly rated prospects. This isn’t unique to just us people.

this organization will always look half-assed compared to others (not even talking about NYY, LAD). It's so pathetic when the Twins, Rays, and Astros are showing how it's done it's pretty embarassing. if Reinsdorf gave a shit as much as these other teams, Williams and Hahn would be gone and he would be sniping talent from the aforementioned clubs

For all you guys using Eloy's injury to justify all the complaints you been making all spring is just total BS: The owner is too cheap; Hahn's an idiot; LaRussa's too old and a idiot for playing Vaughn in LF or for other reasons. . . or Why didn't we get more depth, especially at starting pitching . . . or Why is our drafting (or if you please, spending money on Latin players) and minor league development so terrible? The bottom line is the White Sox are World Series contenders, without Eloy or if he returns, the Sox are still World Series contenders; and I said this before, that's all you can realistically and reasonably ask of ownership and management. First of all, can we quit calling Eloy an idiot and implying he should be fined for trying to make that catch? Every ballplayer in that situation is gonna try to make that catch; that's the kind of catch that gets you on the Sports Center highlights for that night. Of course he's gonna go after it; anyone would. A player in the minors or majors; any high school or college player; hell, I'm in my 60's and in my softball league, I'd have gone after it. He was at the fence, had his right hand on the fence and had it measured. He's gonna go after it. I have no idea how he got hurt. I guess he is just made of glass, but it's absolutely crazy to tell him he can't play left field or any where because he might get hurt. He's been hurt running the bases; he's been hurting celebrating, he could choke tonight eating chicken. Should he never run the bases, or celebrate, or eat chicken. You guys are letting your disappointment get the better of you and attacking a player who was doing his best to try to improve and win. You can't play sports worrying about getting hurt. It's a sports cliche, but it is a cliche because it's true: The fastest way to get injured is by playing not to get injured. Plus, I wonder why Eloy might want to make that play; why would making a catch like that, even in ST, be so important to him? Hummm? Would it be he was trying to shut up, at least for a while, his critics who bash him LF play on this board and now in the press? You think that might have played into why he wanted to bring back that ball so badly?? Of course it did. Next, on to the injury thing, again can we stop the over-worrying about injuries. Now people are saying that Vaughn shouldn't play LF because might get injured or even more stupid, he might get Robert injured. He might, but he could and Robert could get injured in a myriad number of ways. Do we wrap them in bubble wrap and sit them on the bench? You try to put the best team on the field to give you the best chance to win. You guys using this as a complaint, it's just stupid. You're disappointed and pissed off about Eloy's injury, so you're gonna find anything possibly to b**** about. I think Vaughn in LF is a good move. We give up some defense to try the best way possible to make up for the lost offense. Plus, all you guys bitching about Eloy's terrible defense, can't tell me that Vaughn is gonna be that much worse. All you guys, the entire point of you complaints was that Eloy was barely better than a little leaguer (you know, like what you used to say about Avi Garcia in RF). For all you guys, and there are many of you, who have been saying that, how can Vaughn would be that much worse. Again, you're just bitchin' to b**** because you're upset and pissed off. Next, the drafting and Latin player development thing. If we ever needed them, it really looks (and I know it's only ST) like our draft choices are really starting to come through more than they ever have, and again, when we really needed them. Rodon has looked great. Collins has looked great and that's why Vaughn can play in LF. And then there's Vaughn; he's looking rather above average. So, I think that management has done of pretty good job of drafting and having player ready to contribute. Robert and Abreu as example of good Latin players? All the complaining about not getting another starter. I think the funniest, most ironic poster on this board is the guy that keep complaining about Dylan Cease, how he has no control and is walking too many. What has Cease given up this ST? I think it's one run. I liked the post where the guy compared Cease to Musgrove after people where complaining about not getting him; that was pretty funny. And you're right; Rodon, we can't depend on hit; he has been a total fail so far. In reality, he's looking a lot better than our 5th pitcher. Now I know Rodon still could get hurt and Cease could go all to hell. But right now, the "we need to sign more pitching depth" complaint looks pretty sad. To me, I think it's our starting pitching (let us pray on avoiding injuries) that's going to compensate for the lose of Eloy. And if we do get a starting pitcher injured, if only we had some one or some two like Kopech and Crochet to fill in as a starter (another failed and not developed draft choice). I posted a message with this same message about a month ago. The complaining on this site is ridiculous and petty. Please get you emotions and disappointment under control. Again, we have a World Series contender. Yes, losing Eloy really hurts, but look at our line up; it's still amazing: Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Vaughn, Grandal; put that with Madrigal and Eaton and Collins and the White Sox are going to score a lot of runs, a lot of runs; and with our starting pitching and bullpen. There's no reasonable way to deny that the Sox are still very much a World Series contender. But if all you did was read this message board the last few days with all the bitching and complaining, you'd never know it.

He really put his credibility on the line with Cruz, and his scoop was worth a 2 flusher. Just like his credibility.

Anybody else getting these ads that automatically pop up when you click a thread? Annoying. I may have to get adblock on my phone.

Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie, Shields, Shark deal are among the worst for sure, at least the last 15-20 years. Dealing Eduardo Escobar while he was simply perceived as a AAAA/utility guy. If Vaughn, Robert, Moncada or Anderson get hurt because of playing Vaughn out of position...this is not a season for on the job training. It's hard enough to hit big league pitching without every defensive miscue dissected to death. We're simply repeating Mackowiak vs. Anderson 2006 debate.

Oh........disappointments. So we "gave" all we did to NY for Rutherford who's been a "disappoinment." Well, forget anyone saying the Sosa/Bell trade was the worst trade in franchise history. At least we got a proven major league player in that one and could be explained. We "gave" NY 3 pieces to win for total complete garbage.

It roughly translates to "Mikey Sports". He sounds legit

Who is Mike Deportes

Interesting take on bad trades in Sox lore. The Rutherford deal doesn't get talked about much. .... This isn't about trades but I'm intrigued by the guy I've blasted on here in the past, Jake Burger. I assume he's headed to Double A to start this season.

I can't believe we still take this guy seriously

Hector is a complete clown.

Man, Gio has got that fire in him today. You can see him like offended when Fuentes had some good hacks, spoiling some good pitches. Gets that authoritative strut off of the mound after he gets the K. Dude just has the right mentality, love it.

OK.......we'll reassess again in October. Of course 100% of our prospects aren't going to pan out. But right now only 2 of them in the outfield have, out of about 7 of them they were high on, and one of them pulled this stunt which has started this entire conversation. That's why I brought up the topic of what happened to the depth we were supposedly building. You seem high on the idea of moving Vaughn to left and that everything will be OK. I truly hope you're right. So you say "they never promised you a rose garden. Just a good team." True enough. We'll talk in October about the results of that.

If Collins can be a legit power LH bat with good OBP that will be huge. Particularly since pretty soon there will be an automated strike zone and Grandal's contract is starting to look like a bit of an albatross. Collins has had a great spring and hopefully Narron can help develop him.

Honestly did no one notice the whole farm system was shut down in 2020 because of Covid? We had a bunch of interesting prospects that looked great in 2018...then they had a hard time transitioning to Birmingham...as many many do...with hopes for them catching up in 2020 suddenly the world changed. I think this is a very big year for the Sox farm teams...maybe they are all busts but let's be patient.

You have the Fisk experiment completely wrong. It was 100% Harrelson's idea, LaRussa was completely opposed. It was a major part of the feud that led to LaRussa's firing. I do agree that Vaughn should not be our left fielder.

Perfectly put. Which, I'm afraid to say, makes us a poor organization.

This is also a good point. The system has been way too thin up the middle for far too long and that also needs to change for us to be on par with other clubs. The problem there is the best way to gain a critical mass of said prospects is signing teens out of Latin America and that’s no bueno with Uncle Jerry. Hopefully we start taking some HS bats in the 1st round at least to help address the problem.

This happens when they repeatedly draft corners instead of middles.

If they weren't already being touted as a top prospect when acquired... our front office has missed on them (since the rebuild began). Outside of Dane Dunning (Who was Washington's #6 Prospect and was a fringe Top 100) I can't think of anyone. Even in the international market, we seem to stick to the most well known, developed prospects. The fans love it. Because we get names everyone has heard before but I'm not certain it is a recipe for success.

sox talent evaluators have been ass for my entire life same with their minor league coaches I mean it says it all when Chris Getz climbs the ladder over everyone else

Cespedes not ready, Colas not official. Basabe, Rutherford, Walker, LuGon and Adolfo disappointments for a variety of reasons. If you strip away Madrigal, Vaughn, Crochet, Kopech we're close to Bottom 5-7 system. We shall see how the two new Cubans fare. Padres have traded for half the starters in baseball and still maintain a #6 system overall, having only dealt Patino from their Top Ten.

#MAGA!

See the quote from Harrelson below. He flat out admits it was his idea. I've heard him admit it at least 5 times since then. There was a lot of finger pointing going on at the time, and LaRussa wasn't pinning anything on Harrelson at the time. Reinsdorf rewarded him for his loyalty by setting him up in Oakland for a soft landing. There's Nothing Major League About White Sox Circus - The Washington Post In the lastest schizophrenic White Sox development, Harrelson "surrendered" last Friday in his power struggle with LaRussa and agreed to let the manager actually manage the team. "My ideas weren't working," he said. "Let Tony have a clean shot doing it his way." Out the door went two Hawk coaches, Willie Horton (best known as Martin's bodyguard and "tranquility coach" in New York) and Moe Drabowsky (best known as the Orioles reliever who once ordered carry-out Oriental food on the bullpen phone -- from a Hong Kong restaurant.) In the door came Fisk, who's catching again. For now. "I feel very vulnerable," said the .208-hitting Fisk, who did bike work and aerobics for agility for months and now has switched back to his mega-iron-pumping regimen for bulk behind the plate and home runs at bat. "I don't know whether the whole thing has done more harm to my head or my body, but I certainly feel damaged." SPORTS PEOPLE; Into Left Field - The New York Times (nytimes.com) Frick Award Completes Hawk Harrelson’s Career Comeback After Tumultous Stint As White Sox GM (forbes.com) A Conversation With: Tony La Russa (si.com)

More likely High A...he’s missed so much time they’re going to want him to rebuild his confidence with actual game results first. Then again, if Collins were to fail at DH, Sheets and then Burger are the hitters with the most advanced skills remaining in the organization, since none of the outfielders have proven themselves.

was wondering what Mike Pence was up to these days

Betting sites agree with you. Cole, Bieber, & Gio all have similarly low odds at around 4/1 and then there's a large drop off to the next tier of AL pitchers.

I think that was Giolito's new "downer" pitch. It looks like a splitter in terms of its action.

How is that unique for the White Sox, though? If anything, coaching and player development was even more critical in that particular environment. Why do other organizations maintain or sustain their high/er rankings?

Thank god that scumbag is long gone

Vaughn definitely has a better chance than Fisk did. Fisk was completely opposed to the move, Vaughn has reason to be agreeable. And he can definitely move better and adjust better at 23 than Fisk could at 38. I just think everyone is underestimating how difficult the OF is. Reading the ball against the high sky in Arizona is different than a night game at GRF, different than a day game in overcast weather, different than in a dome. The correct first step, correct routes, its the difference between outs and extra base hits. And most MLB OF's spend years in the minors or college learning that. We're giving this guy a week. When he also needs to focus on hitting MLB pitching with limited MiLB experience. He is being set up for failure. And he is every bit as likely to run into a wall (including the dangerous low walls at GRF in foul ground) as Eloy was. The only advantage is he is too short and probably doesn't have the vertical leap to get hung up on any outfield walls like Eloy did.

Maybe don’t have a minor league manager that platoons players and is obsessed with bunting. Thankfully it seems things are improving with player development, but a lot of damage was done.

Yeah, I saw this happening, too. Just having Hicks/Goldman, Mack, and Smith on defense, plus A Robinson on the offense are probably enough to keep this team out of the Top 5 picks. That is, if they're all healthy and engaged in playing well. At the same time, I don't want the clowns who spent piles of cash and other assets to get Glennon/Trubisky/Foles/Dalton to ever pick up another QB. I don't want them to squander any more resources in their moronic, quixotic quest for a QB. Because they'll inevitably spend time/money/picks on another piece of crap that'll have to be replaced by the next Front Office and coaching staff. This is why I thought it best to fire everyone in the FO and coaching staff, trade everything away that wasn't nailed down, and start the inevitable rebuild. Like it or not, its gonna happen. Unfortunately, as you said, this team will be in purgatory for a few years with this [snicker] "brain trust."

I'm not asking for ALL of it. But are you going to argue that MOST of it hasn't? When one injury like this happens and so the result is we have NO realistic options? Hey man, I'll be for the first to admit I'm wrong if everything turns out rosy in the end and we make the playoffs this year. But if we don't.....and this idiocy by Jimenez is a major reason why not.....then my criticisms are warranted.

We had some great stretches of talent evaluation IMO, I personally think player development has been the larger issue over the past decade.

One consideration here is that our player development function was well behind the times for years and appears to have caught up quite a bit under Getz, even if it took a long-ass time. We’ve already seen some success stories on the pitching side (Stiever, Lambert, etc.) and hopefully the position player side will soon follow. We invested a ton of draft capital in Collins, Sheets, & Burger and these guys have gone from likely lost causes (which killed our depth) to possible contributors. Obviously it’s way too early to call any of them successes, but at least we’ve seen work / changes Collins & Sheets have made to address weaknesses and improve their chances to contribute. The real test will be all the young guys at Kanny and to a lesser extent Winston-Salem. If we can develop enough of those guys into potentially serviceable players we may finally start seeing an acceptable level of depth in the upper minors.

Eloy couldn't even make every play a normal left fielder could.. Chill.

Well, you're right, those were some horribly bad one's too. Wow. Do we have the worst ownerships in the country here in Chicago? I feel cursed that I was bred to be a White Sox and a Bears fan.

I’m not averse to it at all... and made the thread to follow along with this “experiment.” Collin Hay is awesome, by the way. You should check out a solo song of his called, I think... “I don’t know why” - he wrote it after his wife died. One of the most chilling performances I’ve ever seen in person... and I’ve seen a LOT.

You know, for as much as gets said about Black folks being hesitant to get vaccinated, the majority of them in my family and social circle is basically beating down the door to get it. That's anecdotal, and there are still a lot of fuckin numbskulls in my social circle who still think COVID-19 is caused by cell towers (and not just Black folks obviously), but still.

Aren't we like a family here? I hope you score soon.

I cant believe he played 12 years. Wow