Who is excited for the shift to maybe, possibly come to an end?

[Chisoxfn]

I just have to get it out there…I really hope MLB doesn’t mess this up. I can’t wait until the shift is gone and people have to play in the right spots and we can start awarding the best players for making plays and not the front office with the best algorithms. Let the players play. Bring back the advantage of defensive range in the middle infield. Make MLB greater again!!! 
 

PS: I can’t freaking wait. Like literally this will be amazing. Wish they could make it go into effect immediately vs they are playing this whole season with one final, majorly extreme version of the shift in the most pitching dominant season I have ever seen (and it isn’t really pitching dominant as it is great positioning robbing great hit after great hit. 
 

I also think this will help the Sox as there algorithms / inability to use the shift stinks. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Shifting is just another way to analyze data to get a competitive edge. Yes hitting is suffering because of it but baseball shouldn't revert back to the dark ages. There were never any rules regarding where a defense had to line up before and there shouldn't be now.

All major sports are doing this. Baseball analyzes data on hitters hot zones, hitters tendencies, not only where they hit it but what they swing at. Baseball is a game of adjustments. If all teams do it then there is no competitive advantage to any team except for those teams that analyze and employ the strategies better than others. The same thing applies to scouting and development. If you do things right and get the best pitchers and hitters who can either use these strategies or beat them you deserve to win.

The only reason the shifts will be banned is because if pitching is dominant baseball becomes even more boring and less attractive than faster paced offensive oriented sports. With or without the shift baseball is already behind the 8 ball.

[Paulie4Pres]

How about not hitting every single ball to 1/4th of the field, as a hitter? Shifts were a thing before computer complied data, because so many players can pretty much only pull the ball.

This is a dumb ass proposal. Most shifts could be beat 100% of the time by...knowing how to bunt. Or just put the bat on the ball, and direct it where to go. This is on hitters.

[JoeC]

Would this also extend to moving an outfielder into the infield to get a 5-infielder configuration with a winning run on 3rd in a walk-off situation?

[Sarava]

I'm all for banning the shift. Similar to an illegal defense in the NBA.

I get the use of analytics and the importance of them. But they've stained some parts of the game, and really, the only way to peel that back is via rule changes.

[JoeC]

I guess what constitutes a “shift?”

would it be illegal for a shortstop to start sprinting toward the 2B bag so that by the time the ball reached the hitter, he would be in a position to field the grounder to the right of the bag?

if MLB goes through with a shift ban, expect them to miss some glaring loophole.

[ScootsMcGoots]

Yasmani Grandal and Yoan Moncada are probably the most excited.

Seriously though I guess I would be excited just purely due to our hitters will fare better. But I do have some concerns that similar posters on here have mentioned. 

I think before the major shifting began, the most you had was the middle infield moving in for a double play, the 3rd baseman playing in for a bunt, the whole infield moving in to prevent a runner at 3rd from scoring, and everyone shifting to the right a bit for the lefties.

Where is the line drawn for these things?

Edited June 8, 2022 by ScooterMcGuire

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

How about not hitting every single ball to 1/4th of the field, as a hitter? Shifts were a thing before computer complied data, because so many players can pretty much only pull the ball.

This is a dumb ass proposal. Most shifts could be beat 100% of the time by...knowing how to bunt. Or just put the bat on the ball, and direct it where to go. This is on hitters.

I see this a lot, and I've gotta say.. hitting a baseball is really hard. Asking why you don't just hit it somewhere else is odd to say the least. 

As an analytical guy, I'm actually a fan of eliminating the three guys to a side shift. 

[wegner]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I see this a lot, and I've gotta say.. hitting a baseball is really hard. Asking why you don't just hit it somewhere else is odd to say the least. 

As an analytical guy, I'm actually a fan of eliminating the three guys to a side shift. 

You've got to give something back to the hitters if eliminating the shift imho, Ray.

I have proposed reinstituting the rule initially introduced in 1867 where "the batter is given the privilege of calling for a low or high pitch".  I was at lunch with Manfred last week and Rob loved the idea so fingers crossed.

 

[Kyyle23]

Mostly every slugging left hander in the MLB

[Balta1701]

Getting rid of the shift will, IMO, perversely encourage strikeouts and slow down the game further.

The shift creates a penalty for guys who swing for the fences every at bat because those guys specifically are likely to ground into the shift if they don't hit the ball on the barrel. The guys you can't hurt easily with the shift have an advantage now.

If you remove that penalty, you will encourage more guys to try to swing for the fences on every pitch, and over time you will also see more of those guys reaching the big leagues. A guy can survive in the big leagues hitting 20 home runs and batting .225, they can't survive in the big leagues hitting 20 home runs and .175. 

So, over time, you will see more guys in the big leagues who overswing, and cut down on the guys who spray the ball to all fields. Furthermore, you'll encourage the "overswing" approach at the plate by everyone.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I am. I hate seeing a hard liner up the middle get caught 

[lostfan]

I always see people say "hit it to a different part of the field if you don't like the shift" and that's just not how hitting works at all especially at the MLB level. It's difficult enough to hit a sac fly, let alone drive a ball in the opposite direction of where your swing usually takes it.

[Tony]

1 minute ago, lostfan said:

I always see people say "hit it to a different part of the field if you don't like the shift" and that's just not how hitting works at all especially at the MLB level. It's difficult enough to hit a sac fly, let alone drive a ball in the opposite direction of where your swing usually takes it.

Absolutely, and it's always from the keyboard warriors. You ask any player and they will tell you how hard it is, especially when you reach the MLB level. Additionally, take a guy like Grandal, who obviously has had a TERRIBLE season, but when you look at his career, he's been a fairly accomplished hitter and been around for a while. He's been hitting in the same "style" for over a decade, not counting the minor leagues. Asking him to abandon that and hit in a completely different fashion is not an easy thing for any player to accomplish. 

 

[chw42]

3 hours ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

Yasmani Grandal and Yoan Moncada are probably the most excited.

Seriously though I guess I would be excited just purely due to our hitters will fare better. But I do have some concerns that similar posters on here have mentioned. 

I think before the major shifting began, the most you had was the middle infield moving in for a double play, the 3rd baseman playing in for a bunt, the whole infield moving in to prevent a runner at 3rd from scoring, and everyone shifting to the right a bit for the lefties.

Where is the line drawn for these things?

Banning the shift might revive Grandal's bat. He probably gains 50 points of batting average if they can no longer play the 2B in the outfield for him. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, lostfan said:

I always see people say "hit it to a different part of the field if you don't like the shift" and that's just not how hitting works at all especially at the MLB level. It's difficult enough to hit a sac fly, let alone drive a ball in the opposite direction of where your swing usually takes it.

Yup. Not a lot of tim Andersons. I think the best example is illegal defense in the NBA. Sagging and remaining stationary in the paint was unfair to bigs and penetrating guards. No one said why don't they just learn to shoot from outside the paint. They knew it hurt the product. There's no reason a particular skill set should be punished over another. Lefties are at a distinct disadvantage because their pull side Is the short side so you can play in your outfield and still get em out. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jerry McNertney]

I think a manager should be free to position his seven fielders wherever he wants. The goal of the hitter is to "hit it where they ain't".

[chitownsportsfan]

I think it's bullshit. Hit it where they ain't. The game evolves. For years a turnaround 15 foot post up jumper was a 'good shot" and now it's not. So what if "hitting it up the middle" worked for 100 years, you're paid to make adjustments as a pro.

 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I think banning the shift is ridiculous.  They're professional hitters.  Make an adjustment and if you can't they'll find someone who can.  I don't remember seeing it written anywhere that Joey Gallo has to be a major league baseball player.  If he can't get a hit with half the field open then maybe he's just a bad hitter.  The player adjusts to the game the game doesn't adjust to the player.  

[Sarava]

49 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's bullshit. Hit it where they ain't. The game evolves. For years a turnaround 15 foot post up jumper was a 'good shot" and now it's not. So what if "hitting it up the middle" worked for 100 years, you're paid to make adjustments as a pro.

 

That argument can go both ways. Pitchers need to adjust how they pitch a hitter to stop him for exploiting his strengths. All the shift has done is shift the onus from the pitcher to the hitter, and made the game more boring to watch in the process.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's bullshit. Hit it where they ain't. The game evolves. For years a turnaround 15 foot post up jumper was a 'good shot" and now it's not. So what if "hitting it up the middle" worked for 100 years, you're paid to make adjustments as a pro.

 

This is about defense though, not offense.

I think the illegal defense comp in the NBA is much better than post up jumpers.

[bmags]

I don’t like it, but I also think it will probably work. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I think a manager should be free to position his seven fielders wherever he wants. The goal of the hitter is to "hit it where they ain't".

But in hockey, you can't position your players wherever you want.

In football, you can't position your players wherever you want

In basketball, you can't position your players wherever you want.

In soccer, you can't position your players wherever you want.

I Don't get why people think baseball should be different. There are rules in all other sports preventing some form of exploitative defensive/offensive practices related to positioning. I don't see why baseball should be any different.

[Tnetennba]

I'm not pro or against banning shifts.  I am open to it if it results in more hits, but I also don't love the idea of overly restricting defensive positioning.  I have no faith in Manfred & Co however not to completely fuck up with whatever rules they try to institute here.

[bmags]

The reality is as sports has become so professionalized and so rich the teams and players in it will push rules to their limits in order to win (good). It may make the game less entertaining (bad).

Unfortunately I think it’s necessary right now. But I hope it can eventually be pulled back (as with illegal defense at various times)