Is the rebuild salvageable?

[ron883]

Pretty much everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong with this rebuild. The guys we extended are shit. Lots of Players are basically dead money.  Players are getting closer and closer to free agency. With the current assets on this team, and the realistic payroll constraints, do you see this team can turn it around in the near future to win a world series? 

I don't really think the Sox can win a championship without another rebuild. Hahn would need an absolutely magical offseason. It kind of feels like the rebuild was for nothing, which is depressing. 

[Jack Parkman]

I think there's a crack open if Hahn pushes the right buttons this winter and some players bounce back in 2023 but if not, it's over. It's not dead yet but is on life support. 

[T R U]

This roster can’t and won’t win a championship. Way too many slow unathletic DH types also were out money to spend apparently. 
 

It would take quite the retooling to salvage the poor roster construction. 

[fathom]

Nope, too many players haven’t come close to even half of their ceiling.  Way too much dead money on the books next year to turn things around.

[Balta1701]

Is there a scenario where we can try a different coaching staff?

[kitekrazy]

With the same incompetent coaching staff?

[PorkChopExpress]

It was over when they hired TLR. 

[ChiSox59]

With a smart offseason (prioritizing left handed hitting and defense) and cleaning house on the coaching staff, sure. Running this same shit show back in 2023 has 0% chance of working. 

[South Side Hit Men]

I'm old enough to remember folks saying the Cubs' closed window wasn't good enough (One WS Win, 2014 LCS , Three Division Titles). Good Times

[Tnetennba]

There is still talent that I believe can be salvaged.  Too bad it won’t happen unless it’s traded away to a healthy baseball org that cares to fix and correct issues.  The organizational rot runs too deep.  Only a new owner can salvage the org. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, PorkChopExpress said:

It was over when they hired TLR. 

Deep down I knew it but didn’t want it to be true.  Hoped it wouldnt be.  Somehow it’s been worse than I could have imagined. 

[Tnetennba]

A new gm w/o JR’s restraints could possibly reshape the roster but with the lack of upper minors depth Turing this mess into what they promised us at the dawn of the rebuild feels impossible w/o another complete tear town.  As it stands now this is a colossal failure.  Everyone is guilty, but they are content doing it their way and fine with the fact that their methods have failed for decades outside one singularly magical year. 

[Sarava]

I don't see anything happening this year. But there's enough talent here, where if they shuffle the deck and make some correct changes this winter, this team could take off. Now do I have confidence this will happen? No, but I'll remain hopeful.

[Eminor3rd]

I’ve been as down on the FO as anyone over the last few years, but I don’t think the window is closed quite yet.

i do think the coaching staff has to change. Even if you’re a TLR defender still somehow, there needs to be a fresh vibe, if for no other reason than to signal to the players that dumb shit might stop happening (even if it probably won’t).

It’s insane that, as horribly as practically EVERYTHING has gone for the Sox this year (other than Cease), they’re only three games out of first. That’s why the window is still open. If even two or three of this seasons epic disappointments had just turned out like expected, the team would be in first even despite the terrible FO decisions.

There is still room for some thing to break the right way next year, even if the FO can’t be expected to make significant improvements.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Eminor3rd

[bmags]

It’s over. 

[caulfield12]

It’s over with TLR and Hahn not being vanquished.

Without thoroughly fixing/improving/modernizing their organization from top to bottom.

Without having a next wave arriving other than Colas (and maybe Montgomery) for the next two years.

Without 100% Robert playing close to his potential.  Moncada and Jimenez bottoming out is just too much to overcome.  Anderson isn’t ever going to be a 900 ops guy and Abreu is on the verge of retirement.  Too many veteran salaries locked in that can’t be moved for less than 50-75 cents on the dollar.

Sad that we waited over a decade for this…or that crowing about two playoff appearances in 121 years is some massive accomplishment that will satisfy anything more than the most loyal and supportive fans.

 They MIGHT continue to follow the team but investing less and less time and money on such a dissatisfying product.

TLR makes this such a slog to endure.  The whole season has cumulatively felt like being in quicksand.

[hogan873]

Without some significant changes, I'd say it's over.  I do think a change in leadership would instantly make the team better.  However, there are too many holes and too much money tied up in dead weight.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Cease and Kopech are legit, that’s a great start. I still believe in Gio to at least be a  solid #3. Lynn’s best days are for sure behind him, but hopefully he can at least be serviceable and eat innings. 
 

Robert, TA, Vaughn, are all legit…and there’s no reason to believe Abreu is going to slow down in the next 2 years at this point. No doubt Eloy and Yoan are disappointments and never going to live up to the potential…but I refuse to believe they are actually this bad. I do think they will bounce back to above average going forward. 
Yaz is a sunk cost, he’s washed and shouldn’t be used as more than a platoon C.
 

Although expensive, the bullpen is actually pretty good when/if healthy. 
 

Fire Hahn and LaRussa and hire a GM from outside of the organization who hires a head coach from outside of the organization. Pretend like last off-season didn’t happen and go back to finding a LH hitting corner OF’er, 2B and quality starter and give it another run.

 

Next trade deadline will be the breaking point on whether to tear it back down again or not. 

[Chimpton]

8 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

With a smart offseason (prioritizing left handed hitting and defense) and cleaning house on the coaching staff, sure. Running this same shit show back in 2023 has 0% chance of working. 

And what are the prospects of a 'smart offseason'? Hahn has created this mess so expecting him to sort it out is overly optimistic. Even without a senile manager and dubious coaches this squad has so many holes in it that it would struggle to win a championship.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Chimpton said:

And what are the prospects of a 'smart offseason'? Hahn has created this mess so expecting him to sort it out is overly optimistic. Even without a senile manager and dubious coaches this squad has so many holes in it that it would struggle to win a championship.

Very very low. Unless this team is actually willing to push its payroll up to the tax level, as of right now they are looking at losing Abreu, Cueto, and Harrison, and having just over $20 million to spend to replace them to reach this year’s payroll. Or in other words, if they keep Abreu, they have like $2 million to spend on the rest of the roster.

[A-Train to 35th]

7 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

There is still talent that I believe can be salvaged.  Too bad it won’t happen unless it’s traded away to a healthy baseball org that cares to fix and correct issues.  The organizational rot runs too deep.  Only a new owner can salvage the org. 

Perfect example is what TLR did and didn't do with Yermin.

1. He let him do whatever he wanted, chains hanging outside of uniform, buttons unbuttoned on him and Eloy.  Contrast that with Yermin in a buttoned up uniform and no chains showing in San Fran.

2. He threw Yermin under the bus because he hit a HR on a 0-3 count. “With that kind of a lead, that’s just sportsmanship, or respect for the game or respect for your opponent,” La Russa said. “He made a mistake. There will be a consequence that he’s going to have to endure within our family. It won’t happen again.

[Chimpton]

5 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Cease and Kopech are legit, that’s a great start. I still believe in Gio to at least be a  solid #3. Lynn’s best days are for sure behind him, but hopefully he can at least be serviceable and eat innings. 
 

Robert, TA, Vaughn, are all legit…and there’s no reason to believe Abreu is going to slow down in the next 2 years at this point. No doubt Eloy and Yoan are disappointments and never going to live up to the potential…but I refuse to believe they are actually this bad. I do think they will bounce back to above average going forward. 
Yaz is a sunk cost, he’s washed and shouldn’t be used as more than a platoon C.
 

Although expensive, the bullpen is actually pretty good when/if healthy. 
 

Fire Hahn and LaRussa and hire a GM from outside of the organization who hires a head coach from outside of the organization. Pretend like last off-season didn’t happen and go back to finding a LH hitting corner OF’er, 2B and quality starter and give it another run.

 

Next trade deadline will be the breaking point on whether to tear it back down again or not. 

Vaughn is legit with the bat but he is not as an outfielder, and IF we keep Abreu he is unlikely to suddenly agree to DH which leaves a problem. And Eloy should really DH and not play LF as more than an occasional start. And that is without considering Burger and Sheets who are both really DH types as well. Unfortunately this squad has too many of these type of players, and to really open up the roster at least 2 if not 3 of them needs to be part of trades in order to bring in proper corner OF'er and a better 2B.

The pitching side of things as you say is probably ok as long as Lynn doesn't do a complete Keuchal and Giolito bounces back to somewhere near his best.

And as you say doing anything whilst keeping Hahn and TLR is just a waste of time.

[Dick Allen]

I voted yes it's salvageable but not with KW and RH and TLR, imo., 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Perfect example is what TLR did and didn't do with Yermin.

1. He let him do whatever he wanted, chains hanging outside of uniform, buttons unbuttoned on him and Eloy.  Contrast that with Yermin in a buttoned up uniform and no chains showing in San Fran.

2. He threw Yermin under the bus because he hit a HR on a 0-3 count. “With that kind of a lead, that’s just sportsmanship, or respect for the game or respect for your opponent,” La Russa said. “He made a mistake. There will be a consequence that he’s going to have to endure within our family. It won’t happen again.

Zaidi runs one of the best operations in the game.

They operate on the margins...and maximize every possible advantage to make up for talent disadvantages.

What are the odds three Sox players all end up there within a year following completely different routes?

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Vaughn is legit with the bat but he is not as an outfielder, and IF we keep Abreu he is unlikely to suddenly agree to DH which leaves a problem. And Eloy should really DH and not play LF as more than an occasional start. And that is without considering Burger and Sheets who are both really DH types as well. Unfortunately this squad has too many of these type of players, and to really open up the roster at least 2 if not 3 of them needs to be part of trades in order to bring in proper corner OF'er and a better 2B.

The pitching side of things as you say is probably ok as long as Lynn doesn't do a complete Keuchal and Giolito bounces back to somewhere near his best.

And as you say doing anything whilst keeping Hahn and TLR is just a waste of time.

The most logical plays for RF are buying low on Conforto or waiting on Colas.

Otherwise, they need a placeholder type very similar to Hunter Renfroe to get through one year while waiting on Colas at least until second half 2023.