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Trading Grandal would be one of the stupidest things the Sox could possibly do. Makes me sick.

This is where people should stop reading.

Fun fact: Slugging % and OBP are actually sabermetrics. I say this as someone that would be willing to give Mazara another chance, but is also perfectly fine moving on from him. The reason people want to use other statistics in addition to batting average, home runs, and runs batted in is because just using those three would be akin to finger painting with the three primary colors. Tim Anderson's batting average sank in 2020, his OBP was the same, but he was a better hitter and we can tell because of sabermetrics (and the eye test, but when you need objective proof, bam, stats.)

Its just insane. Sox sign one of the best 2 catchers in the game to a very reasonable FA contract. He is the guy he always was and remains an unbelievably good fit for the future lineup. And half the fanbase wants to trade him to make space for a guy that is measurably worse player, a measurably worse fit, and a FA that will command a decent commitment this offseason. Makes zero sense whatsoever.

Counterpoint: Yasmani Grandal is good and there's no reason to actively seek to limit his role

Welcome to Soxtalk!

Y'all we just went from Mazara to Gio Gonzalez. Why y'all do this to me.

And now we have mathematical equations which can actually quantify these numbers for each situation and tell us which is statistically most likely to generate runs, and which is projected to generate the most runs. So we have taken those BRAINS, and we have built new and improved ways of really understanding these situations. We didn't quit evolving in 1986. That's what modern statistical analysis is. So when you try to throw out these new fangled stats, as something have biases build in them, realize that there is much LESS bias built into these modern stats, than there was in the overly simplistic stats of the old days and the eye test. We can boil both offense and defense down to runs expectations, all of the way down to each individual pitch. We are SOOO far ahead of what we used to know about the game of baseball, it isn't even funny. Even the White Sox know this.

Greg, that’s just what nice, loving people say these days

No, Don Cooper just hated curveballs. Other teams still used them.

It means you're taking numerous long paragraphs to complete a thought that takes far less effort than that. The answer was simplistic because the question had a simple answer. And you merely contradicted what I said. You were called out for essentially saying that the difference between a stat guy and a non stat guy doesn't show itself on the field. That alone shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and that you probably don't actually pay attention to any actual statistics. Whataboutism (you still have failed to acknowledge the fact that you called someone a weenie, which is serving no purpose, whereas I use the word dense, which actually does mean something), moving the goalposts, anecdotal evidence, and the entire reason you're in the hot water you've been in this topic was because you started with burden of proof. Virtually all your arguments are wrapped in logical fallacies. Your inability to stay focused on one thing and jumping from topic to topic as soon as you get called out for something is very telling.

Dallas Keuchel pitched better with Grandal. Let me ask you this. James McCann is on the roster and playing catcher. Who plays DH on the days McCann catches? Grandal, Abreu and Vaughn are on the roster too. None of this makes any sense.

Welcome to Soxtalk!!

I haven't been to this forum for a long time and the first thread I read, I encounter this sat pissing contest. Name calling and nonsense. Knock it off guys. The White sox signed Mazarra to hit home runs and drive in runs. He was a dismal failure of a signing. He had a total of seven extra base hits in 42 games. He hit the same number of home runs Yolmer Sanchez hit in his 16 games. He should not and will not return.

This would be a terrible use of limited resources

What has Ozzie Guillen done for the White Sox since he quit on this team and subsequently got sacked by the team he negotiated a deal with while still employed by the White Sox? Nothing. Ozzie Guillen has done absolutely nothing to earn consideration for the Chicago White Sox managerial opening, nor any other vacant manager job. Nor has he taken a coaching role in any organization to try to work his way back. He's had 8, count them, 8 years to rehabilitate his reputation and earn consideration for any MLB job. Has he? No. Which is why he's doing pre & post game shows. Ozzie Guillen is not now nor will he ever be a candidate for the manager of the Chicago White Sox again. The End.

Because he (wrongly) thinks is proves something.

Since you are too lazy to do your own work, and like to announcing things as fact, even when you are wrong, here you go. If you go over ONLY the 4 year period you have tried to keep this to, he was 8th in a league with 15 teams if you narrow the focus to ONLY AL teams, and leave out 2020. If you look at his batting average he was 12th. His OBP was 16th. Again, no matter how you try to narrow and rearrange this argument, Nomar Mazara is not a good RF. Even with narrowing this to one stat, only a specific four years to leave off his worst year, AND to ignore half of the RFs in baseball, your argument is STILL WRONG.

glad I can read a focused Bauer Blog now.

I love it when people make claims, can't back them up and then push their burden of proof fallacies while puffing their chests out so they can pretend they have done anything except lose an argument in embarrassing fashion. Not to mention claiming their time is being "wasted" yet they respond continuously regardless with empty paragraph after empty paragraph of meaningless rants. If you can't even pull data you claim you have access to, you need to stop asking other people to "prove" stuff. Anyone smart sees right through this egotisistical shtick.

Mazara arguments go in the Mazara thread. Bauer comments go here.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have been a fan for a very long time, and have spent plenty of time and money at both ball parks, watching good teams, bad teams, and out and out shitty teams. That is what I have done for the White Sox. No Ozzie.

So to get this straight, the Trump administration pitted state vs state for PPE like The Apprentice, Governors edition, then told us they had this totally under control. Then said it should be gone by Easter or when it gets warm. Then said by Memorial Day it will all be behind us. Then told us they have this squashed, even declared victory , although there may be little "embers" from time to time to put out, to now telling us, nothing we could do except wait for a vaccine and therapeutics. Oh, and that $100,000 treatment of therapeutics POTUS got, if he gets reelected, that will be available to everyone for free even though there are 25k more new cases every day that the current number of treatments available.. What's not to believe? I do think one of the bigger problems with this pandemic is that it fell on an election year. If it happened last year or next, I don't think wearing a mask would have become a political statement. I think listening to the scientists even if that meant taking longer than the government wanted would have occurred, at least at a more frequent rate. I don't think shopping for a doctor on Fox News who says wearing masks do nothing, and no one would really be that sick would have been a priority to add to the task force.

I know they said that initially but they haven't referenced him since the day Ricky was dismissed. It leads me to believe that something is happening on the down low. We can be hopeful!

I think after Bauer, he's the best pitcher available in free agency. Strikeouts are great and all, but they aren't exactly efficient and aren't as great as home run suppression. Stroman keeps the ball on the ground. He has the lowest launch angle against of any pitcher in the majors, which keeps the ball in the park and induces double play balls. He's never allowed more than 0.9 hr/9 in any season. He's never had a FIP above 3.9. He's a bull dog on the mound, kind of a starter version of Colome. Put him together with a good defense and good offense he'd win a lot of games

I'm not exactly sure if you are spoofing me or are really this dumb. Card playing is random...there are 52 random outcomes (presuming you shuffle). Saying it is highly statistical (as opposed to lowly statistical???) just means you can make calculations on the probability of what the next card will be. Memorizing the cards played and a skill at bluffing does not make poker four dimensional chess. Still if you want to conflate your game of chance into some Einsteinian labyrinth...good on you. I laid out my arguments about Hahn and free agency in five detailed posts after the initial one that you commented on (by insulting me). If it is too troublesome for you to read so many words...I understand. I have no problem with you saying quantum physics is like darts, thoracic surgery is like marbles or building a winning sports franchise is like parchisi...this is a forum for arguments and all should be welcome no matter how crazy. But good sir...when you start calling people fluff ranters you have gone too far.

Considering which Presidential candidate is encouraging armed sedition against political figures and leads the world in name calling, I can't feel bad when someone returns the same attitude that the President is giving them.

Also extremely relevant to the question of "What will they do during a 7 year contract" is that Bauer is 1.5 years younger than Strasburg was at this point last year. The older the guy is at the end of the contract, the higher the risk per dollar.

Trade him for Brandon Woodruff? A young top end rotation arm with significant control would be the ONLY thing I’d trade Vaughn for. Absolutely Iove Vaughn.

I was listening to the Howard Stern show and it is a microcosm of the hatred going on in America. Ralph said flat out that because Ronnie won't reveal who he is voting for Ronnie is scum. He told him that to his face. He said if you are not willing to denounce Trump you are dead to Ralph. ... Whenever I hear stuff like this and read between the lines with some posters, I realize some posters on here and people like Ralph are declaring about half of America scum. Because believe it or not, about half the country prefers Trump over Joe. Just as Hillary had more than half, but Trump got A LOT of votes. I shudder to think Americans like Ralph on the Stern show DESPISE those who will vote for Trump. Ralph said flat out they are dead to him, no matter how close they were before. "This is too important!!!" Ralph screamed. Cmon people. We don't need to have a Civil War. You know, I voted for Obama twice and some say I'm conservative. I don't despise anybody over politics for gosh sakes. But Ralph has proven many want to bash heads of people just because they vote for Trump. I say WOW.

No, McCann just fell down trying to catch it

I'm an old dinosaur and I love the shifting. It works, duh. Do we need to say more? Like make a rule that a fielder has to stand where he has the least chance of catching a baseball? Now, that's messing with the game we love.

Engel and Mazara. Mazara was coming around at the end, hitting the opposite way, true, but looking comfortable at the plate. Spend the money elsewhere. I think he was sicker than anyone is saying. But spend the money.

Good read! It sure is true that a watched pot never boils. We are anxious to get on with the new manager news and off-season dealings. Naturally, the WS will go the full 7 games.

I'm trying to overcome all the typos and grammar errors (your process) to try to understand your point. It seems like your are trying to suggest that the non random process of sports talent evaluation, roster building and franchise budget constraints is the same as the mathematically quantifiable randomness of card playing which further suggests you like using big words and big concepts without actually understanding them. Still the great thing about Soxtalk is you can get all the joy out of b****ing about the idiocy of Hahn's process while I enjoy years of great play by the team he has assembled. Vive la différence

I'm "another one of those people" that can't even understand what you are saying (bolded part) or the coherence of your non-bolded argument. You are judging the process over the results? Kid got all the wrong answers but his process at arriving at the wrong answers is perfect so he gets an A? The White Sox have taken a path to contention and it sure seems we are talent rich now and free agency was part of that. If it makes me, and others like me, idiots for understanding that results are ALL that matters...I'm ok with that label.

I don't see how 11 starts puts Bauer into Strasbourg's range. 17.5 career war vs 33.5 is not even close. Those were an incredible 11 starts but no way he'd keep that up over 30+ starts. Is a team going to put 35 million a year over multiple years to risk getting 2019 production out of him based on 11 starts. You could pay quintana 12 million for the same or better production as Bauer's 2019 numbers. His career numbers are actually lesser than quintana's. Obviously on different trajectories, but if quintana suddenly had a 11 start stretch would that put him at 35 million a year. Their 2019 numbers were actually pretty comparable, except quintana had better HR,BB rates and FIP. Compare these numbers: Quintana through age 29: 24.3 WAR, 1314 IP, 3.60 ERA, 3.63 FIP Bauer: 17.5 WAR, 1190 IP, 3.90 ERA, 3.85 FIP You're probably saying Quintana was never as dominate as Bauer in '20. Maybe not quite, but compare Q's first eleven starts of 2016 to Bauer's '20: Q: 72 IP, 2.13 ERA, 2.32 FIP, 0.25 HR/9 B: 73 IP, 1.73 ERA, 2.88 FIP, 1.1 HR/9 But what about Bauer's strike out rate? I'd argue giving up less than 1/4 home runs is more valuable than 25% more strikeouts. At any rate, if after 2016, Q declared free agency, would that make Quintana worth a top five salary in the game? He would have already accumalted 20.3 career war, nearly three more than Bauer's entire career at this point, and opened a season with an 11 game stretch nearly as dominant as Bauer's. Would anybody have advocated making him a top five paid player in the game? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to add Bauer, but putting him at Strasburg's level because of eleven dominant starts is ridiculous. Add his last 20 starts prior to those and his ERA is closer to 4.

Speak for yourself. Gio will always be original/#1 to me. Watched that guy as a prospect when he was in Birmingham back in the day. Still my favorite pitching prospect ever.

And I also have to put Tigers as the dark horse to reunite with McCann - both of their catchers are free agents, and with a trio of young arms in Mize, Skubal and Manning, having a veteran who could work with the young arms is something they might invest in.

I don't see how there is any way this is remotely accurate information.

They're professional athletes. If they have to have James McCann around to perform, then we're doomed and they should get rid of all of them anyway.

No. And you haven't been right about much yet at all.

Can we just rename this thread the anything but Bauer thread?

Going to be?

We haven’t had a pitcher use a curve aside from Gio who was way too established with it. I hope our pitching coach staff is better at coaching a wider array of pitches aside from fastball, change up, cutter

Your analysis here is excellent. People tend to ignore history. That is short-sighted.

I’m all for eliminating the shift. Baseball needs more scoring to draw in casual fans. I know old timey baseball purists hate rule changes but they keep the game updated to compete with the NBA and NFL. Casual fans don’t want to see a pitcher’s duel.

Shifting has always happened, but it's spiraled out of control in recent years. I guess I'll be the lone one in support of this if it happens. I've always found it lame to stack one side of the infield. Put the onus back on the pitcher to not let the hitter get hard contact.

https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/10/13/phillies-sam-fuld-manager-candidate/

A trade for Calhoun seems like something the Sox would be interested in