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We’ll bring Jack back, but in exchange, you’re now banned. Seems fair. You in?

Always look for the simple answer to a complicated question. In this case, it's not even complicated. This franchise has been a joke for 30 years. Major market team run by ineptitude, nepotism, and greed. Not built for, nor run for its fan base. Jerry and his minions will screw the state, pilfer us for parking, and make personal-based decisions w/r/t the on-field product rather than focus the organization around winning. We lucked into a lightening-in-a-bottle team and championship in 2005, which only allowed this clown show to continue with some polish. When finally faced with an opportunity to build a legitimate force based on some shrewd front office player development finally, we have not brought in the right talent and free agents around it for the simple afore mentioned reasons. The final insult, as we all know, was to appoint Tony, the true king clown, to head it up only so that Jerry can fix some karma bullshit before he finally dies. Until Jerry is gone, and even then, unless his idiot kids get out of the way, nothing will ever change with this franchise. We will waste having a mid-20s superstar, possible HoF talent, and be just mediocre during this run. What a shame. Glad Jerry, however, that you will die a multi-billionaire. Good for you.

Beer and fried chicken pizza needs to lose 40-50 pounds so his knee can handle more than a few months in a season. Lucas didn't have his best stuff, but kept the team in the game. The Sox were up two, but it was clear his pitch count was high, he had four very stressful innings against a top hitting lineup, and it was clear he should have been pulled. Many were calling for the bullpen to warm in the fourth, and when he started the 5th, to definitely have a quick trigger in the fifth facing the top of the order for the third time. I prefer a clean inning for relievers, gives them a clean slate to attack hitters without worrying about sign stealing, pitching out of the stretch, gives them room to work around or walk a guy with a tough matchup/platoon matchup. Tony doesn't, and hasn't for the most part, all season. Tony also has let pitchers go after they were clearly gassed throughout the year. Tony clearly has an issue recognizing when Giolito is gassed, starting with that game in May with Tony's asinine postgame comments. I knew the 5th would play out exactly as it did, with Tony primarily concerned with "Getting Lucas A Win", instead of getting the White Sox the win. The Brain Stem compounded the issue by putting in Crochet, clearly ineffective in back to back games all season, when he had several other options, including the preferred choice by most, Michael Kopech. Brain Stem had one other thought process in whatever synapsis remain between the ravages of age and alcohol. Get Lucas the Win and get a Lefty in. That is the extent of Tony's 2021 thought process. A good manager puts his team in the best position to win a game. Tony failed on several accounts yesterday. Not even getting into the asinine Cesar PH / Leury to RF debacle that moved a game from competitive to out of reach. If this team is serious about fielding a competitive team in their "mutli-championship window" (copyright Rick Hahn 2020 - and it's World Series multi-championships, not fucking AL Central Championships), they are going to go with a manager who can put his team in the best position to win. Hahn had his guy, the manager with a signature on the Tony press release, but it was vetoed by another fossil whose other main decision over the decades was replacing a solid Roland Hemond with Hawk Harrelson. The urgency is great, they need a manager who can credibly move the White Sox to compete at the highest stage. Tony has been completely pwned by Dusty Baker this series, and all season. His incoherent and absurd post game comments confirm the incomprehensible game moves are not just momentary lapses in reason, but a complete and permanent lack of grasp of what is going on during a game, who he has at his disposal, and how best to manage game situations and his personnel. Kick the dinosaur upstairs so his unemployable criminal ass can buy wine until he or Jerry join The Departed, and hire a manager capable of understanding and managing the game as it is played in 2021. Or just take advantage of the spike in 2022 season ticket sales and say fuck you to the fans, Jerry's standard response and take over the decades. Most know what scenario is likely to be played out, assuming Jerry and his owners even field teams in 2022.

And fuck Tony too.

I think JR should sell but if Gio wasn't trying to be so precise yesterday and Bummer and Kimbrel pitched like they are supposed to, the posts today would be about aligning the rotation for the ALCS. That isn't on JR.

The top of the order has balled out in the playoffs. Next.

He got what he wanted. I literally told him no and he kept asking others until we did it. End of story. He can Twitter his nonsense now

Alright boys, I didn’t want to a start a gamethread during the postseason as I felt there were posters more worthy of the honor. That being said, I feel like we need move past what has been a disastrous start and focus on what could be an epic comeback. Our guys will finally get the opportunity to play in front of our home fans. Despite being down 0-2, the crowd should be electric on Sunday and that will certainly make a big difference. Beyond that, there are several reasons for optimism: The Sox are significantly better at home with a .654 winning percentage We have zero extra base hits so far this series and that is bound to change Cease was on fire in Sep/Oct with a 2.53 FIP and is the likely game 3 starter If Lynn can mix things up better in game 4 and assuming La Russa can improve his in-game decision making, I think we got a great shot at evening things. Obviously it won’t be easy, but even one win can swing the monument in our favor. One other reason I wanted to start this thread was because my English Bulldog of 10 years of age passed away suddenly last week. The two of us watched over 1,000 Sox games together during his life and while he had no idea what was going on, he simply enjoyed the time together. Jocomo was one of the nicest dogs you’d ever meet, but dude was stubborn as fuck. He lived up to the “bulldog” reputation and hopefully our Sox can bring a similar mentality on Sunday and refuse to accept defeat. RIP buddy, hopefully we can get 11 more wins this year in your honor.

Wasn’t the last manager dismissed almost exactly a year ago for some “mind boggling decisions” he made in the postseason that led to an early exit for the team? What are the chances the same standard is applied and the same outcome happens this year.

Fuck the god damned Astros.

If TLR was really forced on Hahn then I think Hahn should stay and get his pick of manager.

LaRussa has really ruined my enjoyment of this postseason. Today was such a letdown. That said, time to win in spite of that idiot.

Right on. It is also important to point out that with the new rules, tired Crochet had to face at least 3 batters, including the righty Gurriel, the AL batting champ who ended up tying the game. You needed to come in with a fresh pitcher with dominating stuff like Kopech to protect that lead. TLR made another terrible move, one of many this season. No sense of urgency

You quote me now. Dylan Cease has the best stuff on this team and he will show out tomorrow

1) We certainly didn't build a version of the Twins that beat our asses in the early 2000's. Maybe we built something like the high octane offense / limited pitching and defense Twins, but I'd much rather we be the pitching-and-defense Twins if we're going to emulate any kind of Twins model. 2) The playoffs are not a crapshoot. Every year you have a pretty good idea of the teams most likely to win it. It's not so cut and dry as in basketball, but it's pretty clear usually who the best teams are. This year it's probably the Rays and Dodgers, but the Red Sox and especially the Giants have seriously overachieved. What we really need is SP talent + Bullpen talent + defense + dynamic offense capable of both scoring in bunches via the HR and XBH and also capable of scoring even it's only necessary to make outs in the appropriate manner, e.g. sacrifices and hitting behind the runner. We're pretty close but we have sacrificed defense at premium positions (C with all of them, 2B with Madrgial early & all of Cesar's mis-plays later) and we've sacrificed offense in RF which is still at least a 50/50 Offense/Defense position. And then our bullpen has drastically underachieved all season, and we really don't have that proven ace stopper at the front of our rotation. We're close though. 3) The Giants are a total fluke. Don't even worry about them. Yes there are lots of 2005 Sox vibes but I would just ignore them. Total fluke, still. The best team to emulate in the NL is the Dodgers, and even though I hate the Dodgers and hate to say it, it's still the truth. 4) Pitching and Defense should be our focus in the offseason. And as far as the bullpen goes, unfortunately all you can ever do is stack up talent and see what happens. The Sox have probably the deepest and most talented RP core in baseball, and if not, if must be top-5 at worst. You can go all the way down to Charlotte with guys like Burr, Fry, Foster, Lopez, etc. who are all in probably most MLB bullpens. And then we had guys like Burdi who most other orgs probably wouldn't have let go, and we've got guys like Schryver and Dopico who have some ability and likely would have already been given a shot on lesser teams in rebuilding situations. We're really deep in the pen, but year to year you just never know who's going to be good and who is going to suck.

Who keeps liking posts with the laughing emoji when some of the posts aren’t meant to be funny or sarcastic. Lol

Say what you will about Reinsdorf, but it's his club. (mostly) He can run it any way he wants, as a fan you can stop buying his product. However, he got a sweetheart deal with the state to stay in Chicago. The park is 30 years old, despite alterations, it's getting at least middle aged, if not old. Also, it's still in a less desirable part of the metro area. I wouldn't be surprised that when Jerry dies, or becomes incapacitated, look for the Sox to move out of Chicago. The population here is shrinking and the question will be does Chicago deserve two MLB teams when growing cities like Las Vegas, Oklahoma City, Austin/San Antonio, Nashville, Orlando, Charlotte have none.

They dumped on Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall right in the middle of the celebration, called them scumbags.

TLR is getting schooled by Dusty choker Baker. Let that sink in lol

I’m so sorry for your loss. Dogs are the best people. ?

Nah they will win Sunday forcing me to go watch them get eliminated on Monday.

The more time passes, I can’t be the only one getting more frustrated by all the awful managerial moves. That was honestly the worst managed Sox game I’ve seen.

It took till the post season for that moron to ruin your enjoyment for the team? Impressive. Though, I do agree, this team needs to win despite the moron making all the the wrong decisions.

He would only sit still for so long with this thing on his head.

The Sox have not won a playoff game since Parkman got the self inflicted ban hammer. We need something drastic to turn this thing around. Unban Jack Parkman. Unleash the beast.

Is just ONE win enough to put out the pitchforks for many? Probably not... How will you feel about the White Sox coming into next season, at least as things stand today? How easily will you accept both TLR AND Hahn returning? Are you like many in the game thread who feel discouraged knowing nothing is likely to change all that dramatically as long as JR or a family member is the principal owner? How optimistic are you that things (would) change with Jerry's son in charge of the franchise instead, like with the Bulls' new direction? Do we spend the majority of the off-season ruminating about changes in the front office or ownership that are highly improbable to occur, knowing the way this franchise operates historically? Do you expect any big changes, or do you think they'll be mostly cosmetic ones (a 2B or RF in the $6-8 million range, veteran relievers to replace Tepera/Kimbrel, etc.)...with the payroll still trending up (let's say $160-165 million), but no big or headline-grabbing moves, not even bringing in the likes of a veteran like Starling Marte? Are we simply doomed to continue the AL Central's trend of losing playoff games dating back to the Cleveland Indians/Cubs 2016 World Series? How much worse would it to be a Twins or Indians fan today...knowing how far those two teams are from competing if they trade Buxton and/or Jose Ramirez/Bieber? I found my attention span drifting a bit without much of a pennant race for the majority of the second half, and due the overall "mediocre" player since the ASB. I'll be honest in saying I was thoroughly unimpressed with the trade acquisitions (especially the Kimbrel one) and tried to get motivated again, staying up all night long here in China, but I really feel like I was punched in the face and not even sure how invested to be in Sunday's game (since another worknight/day). I also felt that the chances of winning this series were (only) roughly 25-30%, based on the match-up earlier this season in Houston, their line-up of professional hitters, their extensive playoff experience and veteran "been there, done that" vibe was going to be an incredibly tough out for this team that struggled mightily even against the A's last post-season. Nobody is probably SHOCKED right now, because we've ALREADY witnessed so many losses like this the last two weeks of 2020 and then off and on ever since the opening series in Anaheim this year. I DO feel REALLY excited about watching Luis Robert bloom into a superstar before our eyes...but also a sense that we're a team comprised of many misfit parts and pretty likely to take a hit to the starting pitching in 2022, having a hard time believing Kopech can replace Rodon's performance seamlessly and that Lynn is probably more due for a falloff than expecting an uptick from Keuchel or Lopez or whatever "budget-savvy" veteran free agent pitcher they add to the mix. But who knows, maybe Dylan Cease takes the next step and wins the Cy Young, right? I'm also a bit bitter about losing both Madrigal and Heuer's years of control for that bone-headed Kimbrel move (that, once again, even our own manager's questioning why we added a HoF closer only to put him in a set-up role he wasn't well-suited for.) And no, it's not on the level of my Fernando Tatis, Jr., obsession, lol. For the Top 10-20 posters and all the various moderators at SoxTalk (now in their 30's and 40's with families and grown-up responsibilities/reality or maybe Covid-19 intruding), do you feel like it will be easy to reignite your excitement again when spring training rolls around, or you're still going to feel that same sense of waiting for the next TLR headline or embarrassing manager move that everyone could see coming pages ahead in a GameThread? I've come to really admire those posters like Fathom and Dick Allen and many of the moderators who are there game in and game out, or Elrockin (Greg's favorite perpetually optimistic fan)...but I also woke up wondering after a 30-45 minute nap why do we keep putting ourselves through this season after season? Obviously, some will argue that at least expecting to make the post-season is 50-100X better than 2009-2019, but there were times I really enjoyed watching the direction of the franchise (2016-2019) that it was ALMOST as fun, if not moreso. I guess it's partly due to the expectation all that rebuilding was going to eventually lead to playoff wins and, if not another World Series, at LEAST the ALCS, even though by definition not being able to win like the Royals/Cubs/Astros did out of a massive rebuild will always be considered a failure of sorts by most Sox fans. I guess it's back to that curse of being a White Sox fan, most of us through family connections or 2005. Just like PTAC, I'm sure that I will get over my anger/frustration and start to enjoy the playoffs and sport of baseball again at some point...although maybe not until the heart of the free agent signing period if it's the Dodgers or Red Sox/Astros yet again. Of course, I say this same exact thing every year about Iowa Hawkeyes FB and BB, and still never give up hope despite all the odds in the world being stacked against them ever winning a national championship in either sport...so at least the White Sox have MUCH better odds than approximately 1 in 150 or 1 in 200, right? Just some random thoughts (by Jack Handey), mostly venting but in a free-style version. P.S. The White Sox will HOPEFULLY run off 3 in a row and make me look like an idiot, but, just in case, you probably don't want to bet on the Iowa Hawkeyes against Penn State this weekend, haha. TL/DR, haha.

So LaRussa just had a presser and announced Cease.

Reinsdorf's problem is valuing loyalty over performance. How many scouts get replaced or how many former players are involved in the farm systems and their ability is never questioned? The better big market teams still have great farm systems. This isn't the only organization that's been a joke this long.

People need to stop saying "in hindsight", because it's bullshit. There were a lot of people (myself included) who were against this trade from the moment it happened. It's not hindsight if one thought it was a bad move from the beginning.

My six-month old, masked beauty, coming complete with the teething phase!

Even though La Russa has made some really mind boggling decisions, I don’t think he’s the main problem. However, I feel that maybe they should’ve hired someone like Cora or Hinch. They would’ve been a better fit for this team. Time will tell though.

Anyone who thinks we are going to dish out 30 million a year for Semien seem to have forgotten who owns this club.

It turns out that when you acquire HOF'ers when they're 150 years old, they're not actually as good as they were when they were in their prime. Who knew?

If Kimbrels contract stops you from signing Semien and/or Marte, you let him walk and resign Tepera for cheaper as well. I was a fan of the trade because when Kimbrel is right, he's absolutely dominant and that can help you a ton in the playoffs. Turns out he sucks, what new for the White Sox acquiring a Hall of Famer to bolster the team who ends up sucking (Manny Ramirez, Ken Griffey Jr, TLR, now Kimbrel). As for Madrigal, get Semien and none of it matters because he is a far better player than Madrigal.

The capital was lost as soon as they drafted Madrigal 1/4. It was a huge overdraft.

40 years of blunder after blunder. Reinsdorf and Einhorn showed what classless jerks they were on the night the Sox clinched the Western Division in 1983.

Kimbrel sucking doesn't mean Madrigal is good. It's a bad trade because Kimbrel sucked, not that we gave away a ton for him.

Lets also ignore how Madrigals WAR would have been close to 4. We gave up 18-24 WAR at second base over the next 5 years for Kimbrel to shit himself on the mound all year and in the playoffs. But yes its fine, we have danny mendick and his .500 OPS so he can easily replace Madrigal next season. Or we can stick with the .630 OPS Cesar. Great ball players because they can hit it in the stands sometimes.

Uh, 1400+ ops, 1000+ ops, 900 ops. Next thread.

We never did have a ragah ragah appreciation thread.

If we lose in 3, 4 or 5 games or even come back and win, there are some issues with the team 1. TLR was not the answer as manager, this was a mediocre team after the All Star break with a lot of questionable moves by LaRussa which has continued in the first 2 games against the Astros. We won the division in spite of bim. Hiring him was another bad move by Reinsdorf in a long list of many. 2. We need a rightfielder who can hit and hit with power. Sheets and Vaughn could be the answer but their defense is the problem. I love Engel but only as the 4th outfielder. Scroll down, I messed up as I'm getting old. 3. We need a second baseman, are there any Altuve clones avaiable, Luery and Hernandez are not the answer. 4. We need another starting pitcher, maybe 2 as Rodon is injury prone and Kuechel really regressed, hopefully Kopech and Lopez can fill the void. 5. I have concerns about Eloy, maybe the injury screwed things up things with him and he comes back strong next year. 6. Catching is a problem, Grandall is no Officer Karkovice defensively plus we need a better backup guy, an ideal situation is signing a guy who would take over the catching duties with Grandall the backup which would also free him up as the main DH. 7. The bullpen needs 1 or 2 more reliable guys especially if Kopech becomes a starter. 8. Abreu is no spring chicken, he will need more rest next year, Grandall could spell him more at first with Jose DHing. 9. What happens to Jake Burger, he's ready to play in the Majors. I wasn't a big Moncada fan in the past but his defense was outstanding so do the Sox trade Burger? Can he play second, probaby not. What could we get for him maybe in a package with Vaughn as I think we should keep Sheets. I expect a busy off-season if Hahn looks at things honestly and hasn't fallen in love with his players and is wearing blinders.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/0-2-comebacks-in-mlb-division-series-c297255794.html it has been done and still can be done!! Let’s join that 12% party!

I can remember one pitching the 8th inning. Friday October 8. Wasn’t really needed but Dusty Baker wanted to step on his opponents throat to make sure they were out.

Kimbrel + Moncada for Devers

He really shouldn't post about any sports, on any forum. Hard no, here.

Jesus, they aren’t asking him to play second base. It’s pure insanity the lengths people will go to attack the front office and not the guy on the field. I’ve been a giant defender of the Kimbrel trade, but the guy simply hasn’t performed, at really any point since the acquisition. Because Kimbrel can’t wrap his head around pitching in any other inning but the 9th, this is all on Rick Hahn, and NOT the guy that has been below replacement level since being traded from a team located 7 miles away? That’s pure insanity. Craig Kimbrel’s job is to retire hitters. Rick Hahn’s job is to make this team better. He went out and acquired the best reliever on the market (and I’ll argue Nick Madrigal is NOT a major asset.) I’m sorry, but I’m not blaming Hahn for Kimbrel being an absolute trash bag.

This might not have been the worst managed Sox game since September started. No way it’s the worst one this year. It just mattered more.

Correction - this only ends up being good if Madrigal spends ALL of the next 5 years injured.

That was my initial reaction.

It never looked good. I'll never understand why Sox management donated Madrigal to the Cubs.