Giolito thread

[Dominikk85]

I will mostly look at his K-BB rate. A low era would be nice but the biggest issue was he had hardly more Ks than walks.

Good pitchers have at least twice better 3 times as many Ks as walks. His first start looks promising in this regard but we need to wait and see.

[Lillian]

He was able to throw 94, even 95, in his last inning of work. That plus 8 K to 1 walk (to the first batter), is very encouraging indeed.

[Dick Allen]

Law has been invested in Gio for longer than Gio has been a White Sox. There were more than a couple of  good things yesterday. Hopefully, he can keep it up. 

[wrathofhahn]

It's all about the velocity he was hitting 94-95 consistently in his first start. Last year for a good portion of the year he was pitching 90-91 MPH.

Honestly I still don't trust him you can see from the velocity graph last year his FA velocity has been all over the place.

https://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=15474&position=P&pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2018&end=2018&rtype=single>1=78&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

Going to have see what he did last game over a much larger sample size.

Edited April 1, 2019 by wrathofhahn

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

It's all about the velocity he was hitting 94-95 consistently in his first start. Last year for a good portion of the year he was pitching 90-91 MPH.

Honestly I don't trust him you can see from the velocity graph last year his FA velocity has been all over the place.

https://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=15474&position=P&pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2018&end=2018&rtype=single>1=78&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

You can't trust it, but perhaps the new motion gives reason for more optimism than usual.

[Dominikk85]

Repeating mechanics is very important for him. The new motion is a good sign but only if he sticks with it.

He has been a tinkerer in the past who is probably smart but overanalyzing things. He needs to stick with one motion and not start experimenting again the next time he has a bad start or two.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

It's very rare for a pitcher to change his arm action.  He's been throwing a certain way his entire life and to change that when you're 25 years old is extremely risky especially for a guy who has already had an arm surgery.  He's going to put stress on muscles and ligaments that may not have had stress on them before.  Obviously I hope it works out but I'm not sure he was at the point in his career where he had to make a major adjustment like this.  

[EloyJenkins]

42 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's very rare for a pitcher to change his arm action.  He's been throwing a certain way his entire life and to change that when you're 25 years old is extremely risky especially for a guy who has already had an arm surgery.  He's going to put stress on muscles and ligaments that may not have had stress on them before.  Obviously I hope it works out but I'm not sure he was at the point in his career where he had to make a major adjustment like this.  

what choice does he have? Either change it and stay in the league or be out of baseball in 2 years. If he has another 7ish ERA season, his chances at sticking in the league as a starter are over. He doesn't seem like a bullpen candidate to me either.

[Dick Allen]

He already had TJ surgery the other way.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's very rare for a pitcher to change his arm action.  He's been throwing a certain way his entire life and to change that when you're 25 years old is extremely risky especially for a guy who has already had an arm surgery.  He's going to put stress on muscles and ligaments that may not have had stress on them before.  Obviously I hope it works out but I'm not sure he was at the point in his career where he had to make a major adjustment like this.  

By removing the back swing he puts less stress on his elbow. If anything, this is better for his long term health - the whip action he had before can be even more strenuous on your elbow. 

That said, pitching mechanics aren't an exact science and no one really knows with certainty what is good or bad when it comes to arm stress.

[bmags]

This new action puts a lot of effort on the legs, which is where he may struggle late in games. He was so efficient yesterday it didn't matter.

Him commanding 4 pitches at once was worth it though (curve wasn't amazing but it wasn't spiked every time either).

But, we will see. He clearly needed a big change.

[DirtySox]

Law commented on Gio in today's chat.

Quote

Marc: Lucas Giolito had some success with a shortened arm motion in his first start. Can these type of adjustments work long term? Any injury concerns?

Keith Law: …you get Giolito working with a shorter but clean arm stroke that had him locating his fastball to the corners along with what might be the best changeup I’ve seen him throw. Prospects are still humans; they don’t develop on our schedule.

http://meadowparty.com/blog/2019/04/02/klawchat-4-2-19/

Edited April 2, 2019 by DirtySox

[chitownsportsfan]

19 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Law commented on Gio in today's chat.

http://meadowparty.com/blog/2019/04/02/klawchat-4-2-19/

Probably the first time in a White Sox uni Gio had all of his pitches at least somewhat working for him.   Positive beginning for him no doubt.

[oldsox]

I wonder if this new delivery is what he had before the Nats got hold of him.

[ptatc]

On 4/1/2019 at 9:51 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

By removing the back swing he puts less stress on his elbow. If anything, this is better for his long term health - the whip action he had before can be even more strenuous on your elbow. 

That said, pitching mechanics aren't an exact science and no one really knows with certainty what is good or bad when it comes to arm stress.

It certainly isn't an exact as far as effectiveness is concerned.  However we do know what positions put stress on either the shoulder or the elbow. The variable is the individual anatomy, some pitchers can absorb that stress better than others.

[bmags]

8 hours ago, oldsox said:

I wonder if this new delivery is what he had before the Nats got hold of him.

It’s not.

[zisk]

Is any body old enough to remember Jim Kaat going from a fading player to a star again with nothing more than a new delivery?

[oldsox]

11 hours ago, zisk said:

Is any body old enough to remember Jim Kaat going from a fading player to a star again with nothing more than a new delivery?

I was there when he broke in.  I know Jim Kaat stories he forgot.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 4/1/2019 at 5:09 AM, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

I will mostly look at his K-BB rate. A low era would be nice but the biggest issue was he had hardly more Ks than walks.

Good pitchers have at least twice better 3 times as many Ks as walks. His first start looks promising in this regard but we need to wait and see.

Agree. w8nc.

[ChiSox1917]

On 4/1/2019 at 9:37 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's very rare for a pitcher to change his arm action.  He's been throwing a certain way his entire life and to change that when you're 25 years old is extremely risky especially for a guy who has already had an arm surgery.  He's going to put stress on muscles and ligaments that may not have had stress on them before.  Obviously I hope it works out but I'm not sure he was at the point in his career where he had to make a major adjustment like this.  

John smolts did it in his 30s

roy Halliday did it after sucking his first couple years like giolito 

[Dominikk85]

Second giolito start was more the old gio. On the positive side 4ks in 4 innings isn't terrible but those walks of course were way too much. How was his velo?

[Chisox378]

Giolito should just stick to his game plan. I listened to Garfien podcast with him. Pretty good, although I hope he was kidding about rubbing the Satchel Paige statue for superstition. Just play the game players and knock off the superstition!

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Second giolito start was more the old gio. On the positive side 4ks in 4 innings isn't terrible but those walks of course were way too much. How was his velo?

He wasn't getting any favors from the umps. He was flying open again, and when he does that, the velo is down. It wasn't down a lot (91-92 instead of 90-91) but it was enough. 

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Quote

 

Quote

Quote

"EVERY DAY CANNOT BE A FEAST OF LANTERNS"       Chinese Proverb

 

 

Second giolito start was more the old gio. On the positive side 4ks in 4 innings isn't terrible but those walks of course were way too much. How was his velo?

 

4 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Second giolito start was more the old gio. On the positive side 4ks in 4 innings isn't terrible but those walks of course were way too much. How was his velo?

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I blame Parkman for Giolito’s shitty start yesterday.  Jack got way too cocky after that first start and ignored Lucas’ extensive history as a headcase which most definitely angered the baseball gods.  We really need to see some consistent results out of Giolito before we draw any conclusions.