Dick Allen Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: What 2B would you have selected? The FA market wasn't exactly flush with good options. I have no idea, but if I was to let him go, the idea is to have a replacement that you could easily say is an improvement. I really doubt if RH, KW, and JR thought the replacement was Harrison at the same price or slightly higher, they would have let Cesar go. He is a better defender, hits LH, and can run into one. That's why I figured they totally misread the market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBX Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Another point I have brought up several times is that the Sox didn't handle his workload very well. That falls on a lot of different folks. Health staff, biomechanics, TLR and Katz and ultimately the front office. In this day and age of starters going less innings how do they justify pitching Rodon 6 or more innings in 10 of his 1st 18 starts ? He was basically coming off 2 years of very little pitching. He should have been pitching 5 innings max, which is hopefully how they handle Kopech now, to preserve his arm for a playoff run. With Kopech they appear to be verbally committed to managing his innings in such a way that he could potentially be in a playoff rotation. I don't remember if they said similar things about Rodon but then didn't commit to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 23 minutes ago, chw42 said: The shoulder thing probably explains why Engel struggled at the plate in the 2nd half of the season. First half Engel was surprisingly good last year. If, and that's a big if, Engel can stay healthy I legitimately think he could be our starting right fielder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 23 hours ago, Springfield Soxfan said: What are the defensive back up catcher options? I'm worried about backup C too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 24 minutes ago, chw42 said: The shoulder thing probably explains why Engel struggled at the plate in the 2nd half of the season. First half Engel was surprisingly good last year. He's not wrong that 5 tacks to anchor it down is a substantial SLAP lesion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Perfect Vision said: Remember when the Sox didn't pursue Harper because he was going to block Rutherford, Basabe, and/or Adolfo? Good memories. Yup, it’s really unfortunate we didn’t go all in on Harper when Machado turned us down. Not only would address RF perfectly, but would have given the Sox one of the biggest stars in baseball to help rebuild their brand. And it seems Harper would have joined us over the Phillies if the money was equally. But alas, Jerry, KW, & Hahn were too worried about what would happen nine or ten years from a possible signing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Another point I have brought up several times is that the Sox didn't handle his workload very well. That falls on a lot of different folks. Health staff, biomechanics, TLR and Katz and ultimately the front office. In this day and age of starters going less innings how do they justify pitching Rodon 6 or more innings in 10 of his 1st 18 starts ? He was basically coming off 2 years of very little pitching. He should have been pitching 5 innings max, which is hopefully how they handle Kopech now, to preserve his arm for a playoff run. First I think IP is not a fair metric. If a pitcher is super efficient 8 innings could be the same number of pitches as a wilder pitchers 4 innings. Number of pitches thrown has always been the metric I've heard. Then I think these are two entirely different situations. Looking at Rodon at this point last year...they had just signed him for pocket change. He said he was ready to be a starter so they said...ok...starters throw 100 pitches per start...show us. Then he was REALLY good. And they never abused him...he only threw over 110 pitches once and that was in his no-hitter and it was only 114 pitches. They were consistent in his usage...throwing 95+ pitches in every start for the first 16 games and game 16 he pitched a one hitter. So it didn't look like he was tiring. Also they didn't have him under contract for the next season so it was an interesting gamble to push him to see if he was past his injury problems. Kopech on the other hand is the FRANCHISE...plus he's young and has never really pitched a big league schedule. I'm sure they are going to baby him as a starter this year as they babied him last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, ptatc said: He's not wrong that 5 tacks to anchor it down is a substantial SLAP lesion. They should pre-emptively suture all of his muscles to his bones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: He's not wrong that 5 tacks to anchor it down is a substantial SLAP lesion. Many years ago there was quite a run on SLAP lesions. They figured out how to avoid those pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Tony said: Is that on Rodon, or the coaching staff? It's not like that was a secret going into the season. Additionally, with your background, you are one of the guys always talking about work loads, and increasing them in smaller increments. He pitched 135 IP last season (with the playoffs) in a "contract year" and was the best Rodon we've seen with the Sox. If he came back on a one year deal, he would still be pitching in a contract year, and who's to say he can't build off of that 135 and stretch it to 160 IP? He's hit the 160 IP mark before in his career. And yes, if Rodon would be brought back, he would be replacing Keuchel in the rotation. It would be Giolito-Lynn-Cease-Rodon-Kopech. Those would be your Top 5 starters. With Rodon not in the fold, Kopech gets bumped up, and Keuchel is currently back in the rotation. It doesn't matter who is to blame. I know everyone likes to blame someone. Although I repeatedly said I didn't like the way Katz handled the pitchers. The reality is that Rodon is a huge risk to pitch an entire season. I agree he could pitch a full season and be fine. I just wouldn't want to count on it and wouldn't invest in it. So whose spot is Kopech taking then as Kopech wasn't in the rotation last year? My bet is Keuchal would need to pitch a lot either way taking spot starts for Kopech and Rodon as that's a lot of missed starts when the team has 2 starters they need to limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Many years ago there was quite a run on SLAP lesions. They figured out how to avoid those pretty well. For hitters its always the lead shoulder as that's the one that has the great range during the swing. Maybe they've cut down on the follow through. I haven't studies hitters nearly as much as pitchers for their motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Althoguh he won't be ramped up for 5 innings in his first start...does anyone actually think they will handle Kopech like that? They have to, but I thought the same thing about Rodon. If you view Kopech as a long term asset and they thought as Rodon as just a guy to burn through maybe the philosophy changes ? That's why I was screaming from the rooftops last year that Rodon wouldn't last the whole season. It wasn't about his injury history so much as how they were using him. Edited March 18, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Your passive aggressiveness is similar to my wifes. Josh Harrison hasn't had a better/more productive season than Cesar Hernandez since 2015. Harrison is also 3 years older than him. In what world is that me knowing best? It's stating data based on actual outcomes that Josh Harrison is not as good of a player as Cesar Hernandez. No offense, but can you blame her? I like you ray ray, but you're such a colossal jagoff most of the time. It makes sense that people would get passive aggressive or straight up aggressive with you in real life. Edited March 18, 2022 by ron883 1 1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 35 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: To me its more that Conforto is worth no where near what he will get. Not even half of that imo. I don’t get this take at all. The Conforto from 2017 to 2020 is probably getting $150M+ contract. He is one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP and can play a solid RF. What is it you don’t like about him exactly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said: If, and that's a big if, Engel can stay healthy I legitimately think he could be our starting right fielder. The problem is Engel is another one who is never healthy throughout a season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: They have to, but I thought the same thing about Rodon. If you view Kopech as a long term asset and they thought as Rodon as just a guy to burn through maybe the philosophy changes ? That's why I was screaming from the rooftops last year that Rodon wouldn't last the whole season. It wasn't about his injury history so much as how they were using him. Yep. He unfortunately got injured last year and didn't reach the number of innings they would have liked. So they will need to limit them again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Yup, it’s really unfortunate we didn’t go all in on Harper when Machado turned us down. Not only would address RF perfectly, but would have given the Sox one of the biggest stars in baseball to help rebuild their brand. And it seems Harper would have joined us over the Phillies if the money was equally. But alas, Jerry, KW, & Hahn were too worried about what would happen nine or ten years from a possible signing. Should have went all in on Harper over Machado. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just offer Conforto 5/$110 with an opt out after 1 already... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, ron883 said: No offense, but can you blame her? I like you ray ray, but you're such a colossal jagoff most of the time. It makes sense that people would get passive aggressive or straight up aggressive with you in real life. I don't blame her one bit, but I do blame ChiSox59 because he's a grown man. Say it whifff your chest, young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t get this take at all. The Conforto from 2017 to 2020 is probably getting $150M+ contract. He is one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP and can play a solid RF. What is it you don’t like about him exactly? Most projections have him at about 2.5 WAR for 2021 which technically is a $20 million player. And to try to project that out another 3 or 4 seasons after that, you have to figure there will be some decline. It will be fascinating what he signs for. The QO would have been pretty fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Just offer Conforto 5/$110 with an opt out after 1 already... yuck. That means if he bad, they are stuck with him. Because if he is good he leaves. This reminds me of the Heyward contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Most projections have him at about 2.5 WAR for 2021 which technically is a $20 million player. And to try to project that out another 3 or 4 seasons after that, you have to figure there will be some decline. It will be fascinating what he signs for. The QO would have been pretty fair. Think Conforto is in one of those tough spots too where he had a bigger offer on the table previously than he is likely being offered now, and he's just trying to get back to that initial Mets offer so he doesn't have egg on his face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: yuck. That means if he bad, they are stuck with him. Because if he is good he leaves. This reminds me of the Heyward contract. Yep, no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, ptatc said: yuck. That means if he bad, they are stuck with him. Because if he is good he leaves. This reminds me of the Heyward contract. Heyward's was much worse though if I remember correctly. Where as Conforto actually put up numbers worthy of such a contract, down year notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Just offer Conforto 5/$110 with an opt out after 1 already... Can’t give him an opt-out after one year given he will cost a pick. At a minimum you got to get two years of control and preferably three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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