Chicago White Sox Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: If he has a year worthy of what you guys think his trade value is, he will make 14-18M in 2025. Average increase for a SP going into year 3 with the same level of production is 42%. I think ~$12M in 2025 is fair for a guy coming off a 4 win player. I guess if he were to stretch to a 6 win season he could push upwards of $18M, but don’t think we’re pricing him like that in our proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Bradish was 4th last year…and GRod was one of the best pitchers in baseball from the AS break on. So yea, that’a not statement founded on reality. And yet even as the Maryland State Comptroller was announcing the stadium lease, she openly pined about the need for starting pitching which you usually don't see public officials do. But I'm sure your whole fanbase (and state officials too apparently) will be comforted by the strategy of hoping multiple minimum salary guys will all be Cy Young candidates on the same team at the same time for the second year in a row. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: And yet even as the Maryland State Comptroller was announcing the stadium lease, she openly pined about the need for starting pitching which you usually don't see public officials do. But I'm sure your whole fanbase (and state officials too apparently) will be comforted by the strategy of hoping multiple minimum salary guys will all be Cy Young candidates on the same team at the same time for the second year in a row. First of all, I don’t care what some dipshit politician is saying and quite frankly, I don’t want them to pay huge money for a pitcher. Those contracts are usually always big losers. And why wouldn’t those guys be CY candidates? Advanced metrics favor them. Scouting reports favor them. Stuff+ favors them. There is no reason to expect them to not be very good. But the team needs more than 2 guys that you feel good about entering the season to be playoff pitchers. Means has that potential too but he has to show he’s back from TJ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: And yet even as the Maryland State Comptroller was announcing the stadium lease, she openly pined about the need for starting pitching which you usually don't see public officials do. But I'm sure your whole fanbase (and state officials too apparently) will be comforted by the strategy of hoping multiple minimum salary guys will all be Cy Young candidates on the same team at the same time for the second year in a row. What I find interesting for the O’s is that they won the division pretty easily even though Tampa was +66 on them in run differential. That is a hard stat to do 2 years in a row. Now, you can argue that the O’s farm will make a difference. Do not sleep on Tampa’s top guys. I have seen him swing the bat a lot and Junior Caminero is one bad mfer. I think O’s need to improve to stay the same. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Timmy U said: What I find interesting for the O’s is that they won the division pretty easily even though Tampa was +66 on them in run differential. That is a hard stat to do 2 years in a row. Now, you can argue that the O’s farm will make a difference. Do not sleep on Tampa’s top guys. I have seen him swing the bat a lot and Junior Caminero is one bad mfer. I think O’s need to improve to stay the same. Can’t say this enough, going from Bautista to Kimbrel is a giant downgrade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Timmy U said: What I find interesting for the O’s is that they won the division pretty easily even though Tampa was +66 on them in run differential. That is a hard stat to do 2 years in a row. Now, you can argue that the O’s farm will make a difference. Do not sleep on Tampa’s top guys. I have seen him swing the bat a lot and Junior Caminero is one bad mfer. I think O’s need to improve to stay the same. Yep..the run differential is big. The lack of Bautista is big even though I think Kimbrel will be fine but it’s still a step down. The Os were really good in 1 run games last year and had excellent RISP numbers. Neither of those are reasons to believe success comes the next year. Now, the 2024 team will be more talented but it will also be young and inexperienced. Thats my biggest reason for wanting a top starter…I want more margin for error. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, poppysox said: I remember Carlos Lee for Scotty Pods got this same reaction. Lots of different types can make a really good team. Unless your team can buy the best player available at every position...compromises need to be made. Madrigal will end up being a very useful player one of these days IMO. Jerry won’t let any of his GM’s sign any “best player at any position” and the GM’s that Jerry lets run the show aren’t good enough at their jobs to find enough diamonds in the rough to make the Sox a good team with their dumpster diving. Madrigal has been useful for the Cubs as a backup infielder who can play 3B, but he will never be a quality starter. You hoping that the Sox acquire him would only make the Sox worse than Getz’s 2024 roster already will be. The Sox already have a slightly better version of Madrigal. His name is Nicky Lopez. He plays better defense than Madrigal but he’s just as bad of a player because he can’t hit either. Neither of these two guys is more than a backup on a good team, yet Lopez will be a starter at 2B for the Sox and you are still yearning for the Sox to bring back Madrigal. Edited December 30, 2023 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 48 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Jerry won’t let any of his GM’s sign any “best player at any position” and the GM’s that Jerry lets run the show aren’t good enough at their jobs to find enough diamonds in the rough to make the Sox a good team with their dumpster diving. Madrigal has been useful for the Cubs as a backup infielder who can play 3B, but he will never be a quality starter. You hoping that the Sox acquire him would only make the Sox worse than Getz’s 2024 roster already will be. The Sox already have a slightly better version of Madrigal. His name is Nicky Lopez. He plays better defense than Madrigal but he’s just as bad of a player because he can’t hit either. Neither of these two guys is more than a backup on a good team, yet Lopez will be a starter at 2B for the Sox and you are still yearning for the Sox to bring back Madrigal. Did he just compare Madrigal to Scotty Pods? Hahahahahah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 On 12/28/2023 at 11:16 AM, Squirmin' for Yermin said: These are the posters who have some inside information.. @Y2Jimmy0 @macsandz @Harold's Leg Lift @fathom @ChiliIrishHammock24 and of course.. @Orlando And @Pal I've seen some message boards that change the color or give titles to members with inside info. Might be helpful here too. 🤷 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: And @Pal I've seen some message boards that change the color or give titles to members with inside info. Might be helpful here too. 🤷 Pal rocks. He and Mac are my two favorites. Right up there with wetbutt23 and KatyPerrysBootyHole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 12 hours ago, Sports Guy said: The Os will just start Hall. Elias will not pay more for something than he feels it’s worth. I’m not saying I agree but he won’t do it. I agree with this assessment. And I also agree with Elias’ philosophy. Saying that, I don’t think the Giolito contact tells us that much. We already knew the market for FA pitchers was pretty strong, and we’ll probably see more confirmation of that in the next couple of weeks. I’m interested to see what a guy like Stroman will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 12 hours ago, Sports Guy said: The Os will just start Hall. Elias will not pay more for something than he feels it’s worth. I’m not saying I agree but he won’t do it. I don’t think you would want to see that with Hall’s walk rate as a starter in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Jerry won’t let any of his GM’s sign any “best player at any position” and the GM’s that Jerry lets run the show aren’t good enough at their jobs to find enough diamonds in the rough to make the Sox a good team with their dumpster diving. Madrigal has been useful for the Cubs as a backup infielder who can play 3B, but he will never be a quality starter. You hoping that the Sox acquire him would only make the Sox worse than Getz’s 2024 roster already will be. The Sox already have a slightly better version of Madrigal. His name is Nicky Lopez. He plays better defense than Madrigal but he’s just as bad of a player because he can’t hit either. Neither of these two guys is more than a backup on a good team, yet Lopez will be a starter at 2B for the Sox and you are still yearning for the Sox to bring back Madrigal. Thant's why I ended my comment with IMO. Now we have your "opinion." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, Frobby said: I agree with this assessment. And I also agree with Elias’ philosophy. Saying that, I don’t think the Giolito contact tells us that much. We already knew the market for FA pitchers was pretty strong, and we’ll probably see more confirmation of that in the next couple of weeks. I’m interested to see what a guy like Stroman will get. It tells us they're not going to get anything more than Tier C bargain basement pitchers at $12-13 million and under. $12-13 million is the new $7-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t think you would want to see that with Hall’s walk rate as a starter in the minors. It’s a gamble. He is a high risk/high reward guy. But they have fallback options if he doesn’t work out. Tyler Wells has shown that for 100 innings at least, he’s a good pitcher. Cole Irvin has been good as a starter in the past. McDermott and/or Povich could move fast if they show better command and control. Im not saying this is ideal, I’m just saying they have options. Most teams don’t have a good 5th starter, so trying out different guys isn’t unusual at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: It tells us they're not going to get anything more than Tier C bargain basement pitchers at $12-13 million and under. $12-13 million is the new $7-8. We already knew this. Im not sure why some of you are acting surprised about the Gioloto deal. In fact, he got less than what a lot of projections I saw were calling for. His contract means nothing for their pursuit of Cease and doesn’t effect the WS asking price at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: We already knew this. Im not sure why some of you are acting surprised about the Gioloto deal. In fact, he got less than what a lot of projections I saw were calling for. His contract means nothing for their pursuit of Cease and doesn’t effect the WS asking price at all. That's assuming you knew all along the Orioles wouldn't consider that type of deal (with only money surrendered) to be better than being forced to trade from their minors in order to conserve payroll. They certainly lose some leverage without that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 27 minutes ago, poppysox said: Thant's why I ended my comment with IMO. Now we have your "opinion." “Madrigal sucks” isn’t an opinion. It’s fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: “Madrigal sucks” isn’t an opinion. It’s fact. Thanks for the enlightened "opinion." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: That's assuming you knew all along the Orioles wouldn't consider that type of deal (with only money surrendered) to be better than being forced to trade from their minors in order to conserve payroll. They certainly lose some leverage without that option. I think they still have that option. They’re cheaper than they need to be, and O’s fans are used to it. We’d complain more except that the team has improved so much the last two years that Elias gets every benefit of the doubt right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: That's assuming you knew all along the Orioles wouldn't consider that type of deal (with only money surrendered) to be better than being forced to trade from their minors in order to conserve payroll. They certainly lose some leverage without that option. They didn’t lose any leverage. They would have never signed this deal and Gioloto may not have even been a guy they were interested in. In fact, him going to Boston could hurt the Cease market if Boston isn’t willing to add more to the rotation or if they want to make smaller changes. I wouldn’t think either of those is the case but it’s possible and to me, Boston is the one team that could be really stupid in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: They didn’t lose any leverage. They would have never signed this deal and Gioloto may not have even been a guy they were interested in. In fact, him going to Boston could hurt the Cease market if Boston isn’t willing to add more to the rotation or if they want to make smaller changes. I wouldn’t think either of those is the case but it’s possible and to me, Boston is the one team that could be really stupid in this. Sounds like Boston is looking to add another arm. Yankees will likely add another arm. Jays are front runners for Rodriguez. Edited December 30, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: Sounds like Boston is looking to add another arm. Yankees will likely add another arm. Jays are front runners for Rodriguez. The Os could trade a quantity package and blow away any deal the overrated Yanks farm system can produce. Why any of you would want the Yankees involved is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: The Os could trade a quantity package and blow away any deal the overrated Yanks farm system can produce. Why any of you would want the Yankees involved is beyond me. For the reason you stated. Competiton drives up the return. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: The Os could trade a quantity package and blow away any deal the overrated Yanks farm system can produce. Why any of you would want the Yankees involved is beyond me. Basic negotiations. More bidders, the price goes up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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