caulfield12 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: What I would have liked to have seen, both in real time and to this day, would be a better effort to have kept the elite All Time White Sox around through the end of their careers. Would have been great if Buehrle, Thomas and Abreu would have stayed their entire careers with the White Sox. The first two had great years after leaving, and I believe Abreu would have stayed on a reasonable deal, signed in season, if he was shown more respect by the FO his final season (say 2 / $38M, would get not matching Houston's offer if he wasn't extended in season). Would have liked the same for Giolito (though wasn't going to happen under Jerry, don't regret the trade as a result) and at least through 2022 said the same about Tim (think it was best for both to go their separate ways after last season). Perhaps @Lip Man 1or someone else alive could speak to what lead Joe Horlen to leave for a final season with Oakland, which allowed him to appear in ALCS and World Series and win a ring. Oakland picked him up after the Sox released him at the end of Spring Training, before being signed by Oakland 17 days later. Perhaps they were doing him a favor like the did when they sent Adam Dunn to Oakland for September for a chance to play for his first playoff team (a wild card birth). 7 of the Top 50 Hitter bWAR and 10 of the Top 50 Pitcher Chicago White Sox Career bWAR leaders spent their entire Major League career with the White Sox. Luke Appling and Ted Lyons are the two lone BBWAA elected hall of famers, with Ed Walsh (highest BBWAA vote total 55,5% in 1945) elected via the Old Timers Committee shortly after the BBHOF was established, and Red Faber (highest BBWAA vote total 30.9% in 1960) elected via the Veterans Committee eighteen years later. Ted Lyons is the only White Sox for life inductee who broke the 75% BBWAA vote threshold without a run off election. Top 50 All Time bWAR White Sox For Life (13.1 + for Hitters and 10.8 + for Pitchers) Modern Era Hitters 16.2 Tim Anderson (2016-2023) - Will drop off if he signs and plays for another organization. 14.6 Ron Karkovice (1986-1997) Modern Era Pitchers 20.2 John Danks (2007-2016) 11.8 Dylan Cease (2019-Current) Segregation Era Hitters 77.5 Luke Appling (1930-1950) 1964 BBHOF (70.6% - 94.0% via the 1964 Run Off Election) 24.4 Johnny Mostil (1918-1929) BBWAA highest ballot 0.5% 1956 21.2 Buck Weaver (1912-1920) 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner 20.9 Lee Tannehill (1903-1912) 1906 World Series Champion 19.4 Happy Felsch (1915-1920) 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner Segregation Era Pitchers 70.6 Ted Lyons (1923-1946) 1955 BBHOF (BBWAA 86.5%) 65.9 Ed Walsh (1904-1917) 1946 Old Timers Committee BBHOF + 1906 World Series Champion 63.9 Red Faber (1914-1933) 1964 Veterans Committee BBHOF + 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner 25.1 Jim Scott (1909-1917) 1917 World Series Champion 20.2 Johnny Rigney (1937-1947) Married Charlie Comiskey's Granddaughter and became co-GM. 16.4 Joe Benz (1911-1919) 1917 World Series Champion 14.0 Roy Patterson (1901-1907) 1906 World Series Champion 12.2 Ted Blankenship (1922-1930) They traded Thome to the Dodgers for that reason as well. Otoh, seems we mostly got those HoF type players as the last stop in their careers...3-5 years too late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I don’t care what you call it, being .500 and making the playoffs would be a huge win for the Sox even if they get swept in the first round. It seems like 3/4 seasons the Sox aren’t playing meaningful baseball in August/July so it would be nice if that changed. 1st of all the scenario presented that I responded to was the Sox were 3 games up in July and would the Sox then decide not to trade Cease. No one said anything about actually winning the division and making the playoffs like you said. The question was do you think the Sox would still trade Cease or not ? In that scenario that would mean that besides Cease other players likely to be Free Agents this year or next year like Fedde, Soroka, Kopech, Flexen ,Moncada, Dejong, Nicky Lopez, Eloy and a few relievers would also be playing well . Why do you think the Sox signed most of these guys this off season ? They have 2 very tradable assets in Cease and Robert. They hired Bannister and got some of these guys to make the defense better and hope Bannister could perform multiple miracles and help some of the pitchers regain former glory. The whole point of doing this was to create more tradable assets because in the new rebuild tanking will not get you high draft picks anymore. Fix them and flip them . That was the whole point of getting them in the 1st place not to actually pretend you could win the division. Being 3 games ahead in the division means that plan was a rousing success ! Against all odds Bannister created something out of a lot of nothings. Then you want to abandon an epic win for the future of the franchise and not trade anyone, give up that epic win all in the name of making a few fans happy in 2024 If the miracle continues in the 2nd half of the season ? Make plan, plan is a success. You now have other guys you might be able to get a few prospects for, abandon that plan all while hoping to cling to that mirage of a 3 game lead . Getz would win Bozo of The Year for making a plan that has very long odds of actually working, having it actually work then deciding ,yeah, I'd rather try to win the division now and give up on the future. Let's just keep picking up rejects on the cheap and perform this miracle year after year ! Edited February 3 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-saturday/2024/2/2/24057664/white-sox-dylan-cease-understands-the-business-that-has-him-in-limbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: You might be able to dump Moncada if he has a 2019 like first half, but he absolutely is not “flippable”. Dude is making $29M in calendar year 2024. Eloy could maybe return something interesting like Gio did if he stays healthy and rakes. Big time if. He’s also due around $17M in 2024. I actually think Moncada is more flippable than Eloy. Moncada has very good glove at 3B, and could easily be an attractive option for a team in the pennant race that doesn't want to break the bank on a big time deadline acquisition - especially if the Sox kick in enough cash to cover his buyout (which is 100% going to happen regardless of where he finishes the season). Eloy can't run, can't field, and can't stay healthy enough to make his bat worth it. I'd be stunned if he isn't bought out of his deal as well when the season ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I actually think Moncada is more flippable than Eloy. Moncada has very good glove at 3B, and could easily be an attractive option for a team in the pennant race that doesn't want to break the bank on a big time deadline acquisition - especially if the Sox kick in enough cash to cover his buyout (which is 100% going to happen regardless of where he finishes the season). Eloy can't run, can't field, and can't stay healthy enough to make his bat worth it. I'd be stunned if he isn't bought out of his deal as well when the season ends. He's due $8 million for the last two months and another $5 for buyout. White Sox would have to pay half ($6.5 million) but that's still like acquiring a nearly $20 million annual salary player even with the Sox paying 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I actually think Moncada is more flippable than Eloy. Moncada has very good glove at 3B, and could easily be an attractive option for a team in the pennant race that doesn't want to break the bank on a big time deadline acquisition - especially if the Sox kick in enough cash to cover his buyout (which is 100% going to happen regardless of where he finishes the season). Eloy can't run, can't field, and can't stay healthy enough to make his bat worth it. I'd be stunned if he isn't bought out of his deal as well when the season ends. Yah I just don’t see it on Moncada. I certainly agree that he can be a useful and even productive player. But the $ is and will be a huge deterrent even if the bat wakes up. Jerry isn’t going to eat $8-10M to trade Yoan for a bag of balls in July. I do agree that barring a monster and healthy season from Eloy, this will be his last in a Sox uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 hours ago, Quin said: This is the funniest aspect of it all. Tearing it down to studs for to gain...what? Tim Hill, Martin Maldonado and Chris Flexen? Chris Getz is spending hat he’s allowed to spend. He’s clearly decided that focusing on defense with the little money he has to spend is the best way forward right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Dodgers have very little pitching depth in the minors now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 minutes ago, fathom said: Dodgers have very little pitching depth in the minors now They just signed Dinelson Lamet to a minor league contract. I’m sure they will also bring back Kershaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Sox Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) I wonder if Epstein being back with the Red Sox might spike their Cease interest. He’s never been afraid to make a deal (including Cease once already), and he’s familiar with Cease from his time with the Cubs. Edited February 4 by Pale Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Anyone else curious if today's moves are a precursor to a Cease for pitching trade now that Getz has grabbed two MLB ready OF? Cease for Woo/Miller+ or similar return seems much more palatable now to me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 22 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Anyone else curious if today's moves are a precursor to a Cease for pitching trade now that Getz has grabbed two MLB ready OF? Cease for Woo/Miller+ or similar return seems much more palatable now to me. Actually it seems like a move where they talked about Cease with some of these names but couldn't get a deal done with bigger names so they settle on the lesser names deal. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 44 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Anyone else curious if today's moves are a precursor to a Cease for pitching trade now that Getz has grabbed two MLB ready OF? Maybe they're waiting for Elias to finish sitting shiva for Joey Ortiz. He's probably locked himself in a room, playing Roy Orbison songs and drawing hearts around the head of a DL Hall 8 x 10. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 50 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Maybe they're waiting for Elias to finish sitting shiva for Joey Ortiz. He's probably locked himself in a room, playing Roy Orbison songs and drawing hearts around the head of a DL Hall 8 x 10. Right now everyone in the East is chasing that franchise...even hired Theo Epstein to assist Breslow and close the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Tnetennba said: Anyone else curious if today's moves are a precursor to a Cease for pitching trade now that Getz has grabbed two MLB ready OF? Cease for Woo/Miller+ or similar return seems much more palatable now to me. The year is 2044. The White Sox trade for Michael Kopech’s firstborn son. Soxtalk: “could this be the final piece before a Dylan Cease trade?” 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Right now everyone in the East is chasing that franchise...even hired Theo Epstein to assist Breslow and close the gap. Elias could have nailed the coffin on that division shut with a Cease trade. Now we don't need any of their stinky ole' outfielders, and the true diamond of that organization, Joey Ortiz, is in Milwaukee, who I would imagine will be announcing a 10 year extension with him any day now. His double-play stare-down will be known as the Leer that Made Milwaukee Famous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: Elias could have nailed the coffin on that division shut with a Cease trade. Now we don't need any of their stinky ole' outfielders, and the true diamond of that organization, Joey Ortiz, is in Milwaukee, who I would imagine will be announcing a 10 year extension with him any day now. His double-play stare-down will be known as the Leer that Made Milwaukee Famous. Easy to understand surrendering two lesser prospects and the more comfortable ceiling/floor on Burnes for just one season. Then they reassess at the deadline or next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. As in Ortiz, Hall, and the pick+? If so I’m fine with Getz holding out. Ortiz might turn into a fine player, but that package just doesn’t move the needle for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 14 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. Good on Getz’ part then for holding firm. Good on Mike Elias for getting an ace with that underwhelming return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. I never took Baltimore seriously and this is further proof. If you gave me Baltimore's Top 15 prospects and said, "Name the 2 you don't want," it would have been Ortiz and Hall for me. Elias is clearly getting rid of players who would never have played for the O's. The fact that the Brewers are going to use Ortiz as a glove-first 3b tells me this is all about a small market team looking to get pre-arb years. The Sox should have a higher standard than that. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. Can’t help but wonder what the offers may have been from the Reds or Dodgers (if it even got to that point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nightengale reported that Baltimore was basically offering this same package and another player for Cease. I doubt it's any of the big 5 or the Sox probably make the deal. Cowser/Kjerstad, Ortiz, Hall and a comp round pick would have been a fine trade. For sure it wasn't offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Timmy U said: I never took Baltimore seriously and this is further proof. If you gave me Baltimore's Top 15 prospects and said, "Name the 2 you don't want," it would have been Ortiz and Hall for me. Elias is clearly getting rid of players who would never have played for the O's. The fact that the Brewers are going to use Ortiz as a glove-first 3b tells me this is all about a small market team looking to get pre-arb years. The Sox should have a higher standard than that. Brewers with a Top 5 farm, and will use the money created trading Burnes and eventually Adames opens up 3b for youngsters and Ortiz slots in at SS... Tyler Black and Brian Anderson figure into that 3B mix. Anderson can play outfield as well, but need more pop there, period...we all know by now Ortiz doesn't have the pop for a corner. Adames has a lot of trade value because Amed Rosario the best FA and numerous teams have hesitated adding him or Tim Anderson. Edited February 4 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Getz has to be looking for pitching back after dealing Mena yea? Kinda wish the Reds were still interested. I'd love Lowder & Petty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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