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Here’s how I would approach the deadline. Guys I’m Definitely Moving Joakim Soria James Shields Guys I Would Like to Move Luis Avilan Xavier Cedeno Guys I Would Listen On Jose Abreu Avi Garcia Leury Garcia Yolmer Sanchez Nate Jones I think the above is pretty straight forward. Soria & Shields will both be free agents after the season, so they gotta go. Soria should actually have some value, whereas I’d like to move Shields simply to open up a spot for Stephens. In a perfect world, I’d deal both Avilan & Cedeno, but I wouldn’t just give them away as both pretty solid left-handed relievers that are controllable for another 1 to 2 seasons. Got to get something of value for them. The guys I would listen on are more interesting. Nate Jones is the outlier of the group, as he’s only here because his value is at an all-time low and he’s cheap enough to roll the dice on in 2019. As for the four positional guys, all of them would be on the table, but I’d have to get quality offers to move them. If not, they can all be key parts of the 2019 roster as far as I’m concerned. For some reason though, I feel like Yolmer is the guy that teams will have the most interest. The fact he is 26, controllable for three more seasons, and can play anywhere in the infield should be of great value to a contender. I could see Milwaukee being a team with a lot of interest.

With all due respect to Greg, if he doesn't know who the Cubs first baseman is, how could he even start to predict how much trade value anyone has around the league?

Soxtalks own Thad Bosley.

"Too much pitching"

The only reason I'm even here is because its my birthday and all I wanted tonight was to watch the Sox and have some beer.

Perhaps you need further clarification. Keith Law wrote a fairly scathing (even for him) ESPN insider piece from the season before the trade went down (it was late summer '16) and he mentioned that Moncada was having problems consistently making contact (not that he wasn't hitting it hard when he was) in AA and that if the Red Sox were relying on him down the stretch to fill in holes they were likely to be disappointed. And...he was right. Moncada was (and still is) a very raw, toolsy prospect. A lot of loud contact and highlight plays and a lot of strikeouts and blunders -- as we've found. Of course he then got traded, proceeded to do fairly well in AAA (while striking out way too much) then fairly well in MLB (while striking out way too much) and then coming out this season and tearing it up before having a minor injury and cratering again. In retrospect, hindsight, whatever -- Keith was right. Moncada was very raw and for whatever reason (Law, as a former scout, thought it was the toe tap timing mechanism) was going to struggle to make consistent contact. Law is just one opinion but I remember at the time hoping he wasn't right and it turns out he's been quite right. Patience is in order of course as we've seen from Yoan, he's got plenty of talent. Just needs to refine it. Hopefully the Sox can bring it out eventually. TA is proving a nice case study.

I don't get the hate because it seems irrational. For basically 2 years and 800+ AB's Avi has been an .850 OPS guy and people's argument is "yeah but when he was 23 and 24 in the majors for the first time he was a mess"...then every time he goes in a slump it is "well here comes terrible 24 year old Avi again". We are in the midst of a rebuild...good save our souls...every prospect outside of Frank Thomas/Mike Trout struggles before they find it. On this board half the posts are about whose job is it to drag Giolito, Fulmer, Lopez, Moncado and Tim Anderson to the dumpster...and we actually have someone that has broken through and we can't wait to trade him. It is reasonable to question his walks...but go look at Kirby Puckett's career (lifetime .340 BABIP including 4 years above .370). From the 5 years where he was 28-32 KP (basically when Avi will be due a new contract) averaged 5+ WAR a season including a 7.8 WAR in a year where he walked 23 times. And I know people will scoff at Avi=Kirby but at 24 Kirby put up a .655 OPS in 600 AB's/ Wouldn't Kirby Puckett look good in the 2020 lineup? Why would anyone want to trade that for some teams 10th rated prospect?

Hello Katie.

If you only get scraps for him, F*** it, we have him for 3 more seasons, don't trade him until someone gives us something of use for him.

Maybe in 2021, or maybe in 2022, or maybe in 2023. Always remember what Bill Veeck said." 5 year plans usually lead to new 5 year plans".

Correct. The power of the Tribune Company in owning the Tribune, plus WGN radio, plus WGN-TV, plus Superstation WGN plus Chicagoland cable TV (I think that's what it was called) clearly gave them a huge advantage. Now add in the Sox bizarre reluctant to even fight for their own share of their home market (i.e. "We're Chicago's American League team...") and the marketing brilliance of John McDonough in promoting Wrigley Field and the experience (even though the Cubs sucked on the field for many years) and it all added up to the situation where we are in now. Ironically Eddie Einhorn himself predicted this was going to happen the day the Sox were eliminated by Baltimore when he said (paraphrasing) 'As long as the Tribune Company holds all these media outlets the Sox will never get a fair shake...' (I've got the WLS broadcast from that night in my library which has the story and the quotes) Of course EE was partially responsible too because he was the biggest proponent of the 'We're Chicago's American League team' concept and then SportsVision which was a brilliant idea, but ahead of its time and a dismal failure which kept the Sox out of the eye of the public and turned a generation of fans to the Cubs because they could actually watch their games. It's a very complicated story but again the end result is the Sox find themselves in the position they are in clearly second fiddle in the market and from that standpoint facing some serious issues.

Is this the same Yolmer with nine or 10 errors already? I think he's a decent player, a good sub playing once or twice a week on a solid team...nothing more in my opinion.

No I don’t. It’s not going to happen.

Greg is right

More little league bullshit. What a disgraceful effort by the defense over the last month.

This coaching staff flat out sucks. Mind boggling dumb decisions made game after game.

Steve Stone is a pitcher, not a marketing executive. I mean generally speaking, Chicago a major media market -- in a vaccuum. But in terms of baseball media, both because of negotiated contractual channel exclusivity and because of the way the MLB literally divides territory amongst the teams, the White Sox do not occupy a major media market. That doesn't mean they can't and shouldn't spend money -- but it's disingenuous to suggest that the fact that the Sox are in a big city means that its owners are pocketing a larger amount of money than teams in smaller cities. Baseball, as a product, is a very strange bird, given the monopoly exceptions that have been granted by the government. Here's an illustration that is related: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/23/upshot/24-upshot-baseball.html

Yeah not sure why he's playing. Rather give him these last two games off and then DH him this weekend.

Sick of Palka hitting cheapies

If Alex Jones says it is going to happen, it will happen. He isn’t part of the deep state or the fake news MSM. He uncovered pizzagate, and found out Sandy Hook was a fraud. A deep state conspiracy. He is real news. Keep listening to him and Rush Limbaugh Greg. They will get you the facts,

All of us democrats are doing it today.

Crazy game . Lot's of hitting lots of bad pitching but also some good pitching in extra innings by the Sox. Moncada comes through in the clutch . Avi and Palkamania each hit 2 massive bombs. Happy 4th everyone . This one was a fireworks show in itself.

So back to Madrigal . I loved that pick. I know people don't like he has little power and makes a lot of weak contact but weak contact is better than striking out and thats just going to happen when you don't K a lot. There's a lot to be said for the Boggs and Carews and Ichiros and Gwynns even though baseball doesn't seem to like those kind of players any more. Someone has to get on base before the boppers bat and force the defense into making errors . Just look at Cincy last night making some key errors and look how the Sox manage to lose so much because of defense. Some key misplays have been big parts of Word Series wins, Buckners error , Graffanino's against the Sox in the playoffs.

I'm sure he thought it was a B-12 shot

The other factor is teams can agree to pay future college tuition and not have it count against their bonus allotment. A half million dollars, free college, and a chance to chase your dream is at least tempting.

So sometimes they reflect what we see with our own eyes? That's great. They're also completely wrong a lot of the time. They're unreliable, at best.

Yeah, I would say Avilan is close to the “definitely move” category. We should probably move one of the lefties no matter what to open up a spot for Bummer eventually and all else being equal I’d move Avilan before Cedeno because he’s more expensive and has one less year of control. I hate the thought of trading Yolmer, but this could really be his peak value. With the addition of Madrigal, it’s really hard to see how he fits long-term other than as an elite reserve infielder, which is low on the priority list. Again, if the value isn’t there I have no problem keeping him around and serving as a transitional piece to Madrigal. But I feel like he’d be an incredibly valuable piece on an NL contender with the Brewers making the most sense.

I disagree. Moncada's upside is a notch below Trout. Roided up Robinson Cano with 30-35 SB per year. You don't punt on that type of potential this early. The way I look at Moncada is his upside is Cano with blazing speed and his floor is Trevor Story. Story is still a useful player, but if you think he's going to stay at Story level for the forseeable future you sell on him, sure, but you don't make that determination until 2020 when Madrigal is ready. And if you sell, you have to prepare yourself for the possibility that the light comes on elsewhere, and be okay with that.

Boom!

This post didn't age well eh Mike? This is outstanding news and get for this system. Didn't think Sox had a chance in hell to sign Bush.

Lol that was perfect

The best evidence that advanced fielding metrics are not useless is the fact that by and large they identify as great fielders the same people who close observers of the game do.

Easy for me. I loved Dayan Viciedo

Haha true, but good thing he didn't because we wouldn't have gotten to see that very nice comeback win.

Benetti has talent. He's a good announcer.

If you really want to reflect on what a bizzaro world it was in the aftermath of 05 compared to now. I very clearly remember an ongoing topic on The Score and other local sports media through the first half of 2006. We got off to a very nice start following our title -- as the Cubs were well on their way to a last place finish. The local pundits would regularly be discussing "Here's why the White Sox are so much better as an organization" and "What can the Cubs do to be more like the White Sox?"... "How can the Cubs get their heads out of their asses and be more like that team on the southside!?" That is a memory which pops into my head every once in a while and I laugh. How a decade can change things... man, oh man.

You just called them witches.

Trust me, I understand just fine. I am not the one trying intentionally ignoring and manipulating data to empower a political party over actual candidates. I mean even in that list you completely ignored the fact that about half of those states were primary states. But it didn't fit the Democratic Party agenda so you hand-waved it and continued with the charade that it was just caucuses. And despite all of the discussion around everything else, you keep trying to pretend it is just the caucuses, because that is what the party is telling you to say. A lot of intelligent people are trying to get you see something other than the party line. Even though you irrationally despise me, it isn't just me saying it.

Again, you just misunderstand what "major market" means, just like in the last thread where you brought this up. It isn't necessarily intuitive, so I don't blame you for not understanding major media marketing, but you should try to learn a bit about how markets work if you're going to want to form pointed opinions about them -- if for no other reason than to alleviate your own personal stress level.

I'd send Greg to the international space station for a Jose Paniagua autograph.

Maybe it's not they who need to learn.

Baseball only suffers from a "lack of action" if the viewer has no idea how much goes into each and every pitch. If that's not interesting, I don't know, go play video games or something.

I really don't think "tanking" exists in baseball. It is called rebuilding and it has existed in the sport forever. The only difference is right now we are in an era where there are a lot more teams rebuilding at the same time. However, tanking is literally purposefully stinking to acquire top draft picks...I really don't think that is what is happening in baseball. Teams are retooling and moving guys and loading up on as much prospects as possible, however, the value of a #1 pick vs. a #8 pick is not near the disparity that exists in basketball (for example). I think I should ban the word "tanking" on this site cause its just a crappy use. Tanking is losing on purpose and literally trying to "lose". I don't view the White Sox plan as doing that. Yes, they were going to be bad, but it was because they are in a talent accumulation phase and stripping the major league roster of more talent to get more "future" talent given our time horizon. That said, they aren't doing it for the purpose of losing or getting the #1 overall pick, they are doing it to fill their pipeline because they didn't have a forseeable plan to win in the near term. The Cubs/Astros made "tanking" a more cliche term but in the next few years, we will see some teams fail horribly at it (kind of like the Pirates and Royals did for like 30 years (i.e., their inability to rebuild).

Good article but I don't respect KW for lying. At least admit the losses are not only acceptable, but desired. Glad the article had a negative tone about the rebuild at least.

Suck may be a strong word, but people around here have an overly irrational love for Abreu. That's for sure.

See, I hate this idea. With Avi, we as fans and all of his team mates had to suffer through 2 1/2 seasons of him sucking out loud at baseball. Now, 5 years into his tenure as a White Sox player/prospect, we STILL don't know for sure if he's a good player or not. I have to believe that there's a better way to "coach up" the top prospects in this org. You see other orgs keep the #1 prospect in all of baseball in AAA all year, & when he comes up, Kris Bryant kicks ass & takes names, RIGHT AWAY. When was the last time this org gave a top prospect an entire year in AAA to iron out his weaknesses? I honestly can't remember. (Moncada, Anderson, Avi, Beckham, etc... were all here after less than a full season @ Charlotte.) Maybe Avi would have only had 1 or 1 1/2 seasons of suck, had he stayed in AAA longer. Maybe Moncada wouldn't have an embarassing line as a RHH if they didn't stupidly rush him up. You look around MLB, & if other teams are doing better w/their young players than we are, maybe we shouldn't stupidly rush players up. And then, maybe, just MAYBE, their adjustment period to MLB could be shorter & easier for them. We can all be patient, & hopeful for Avi. But at the same time, we can all pile the criticism, scorn, & ridicule on this stupid front office for continuing to do stupid things. Just a thought.

Jason is a dipstick who says lots of dumb things. Stone is losing his mind. Neither of them has much to say about the hallowed rebuild. They are just filling dead air btw the hot dog promos.

Benetti - a pseudo-intellectual baseball mind that is just amazed by himself.

This would be considered heresy by most Sox fans, and others could easily outright mock the idea (par for the course on anonymous sports forums) but I'll ask it anyway, not to throw a bomb but just to stimulate friendly (I hope) discussion: Would anyone consider trading Moncada at this point and under any scenario they might envision? Here is one idea but not sure it would be realistic or plausible: What if the Orioles would trade Machado to the White Sox right now for Moncada? The Sox turn around and attempt to sign Machado long term. If that fails, the Sox immediately make Machado available for trade for the 2018 play-off run to teams like the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox and get trade value back from them. That all assumes Moncada is what he has show thus far - .An average fielder who can make the occasional spectacular play but a terrible switch hitter.