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Eloy- you be the leader. You’ll be in the dugout most of the time anyway.

Is it me or is Eloy clueless

sox have a lot more information so it's a hellish thing to waste a 4th overall pick on a guy like this. But I could write a book on that lead up to his draft. I was happy sox selected madrigal, you read the write-ups, and a whole bunch of things that to me were not projection were written about him. You were getting a guy who was a defensive whiz. Amazing base runner and instincts. Prodigious hit tool. Sure, lacks power but what he does have, he gets all of it. Insane makeup. (that last one is unforgiveable from Hostetlers team) And what makes me most annoyed is these same writers started to walk back this stuff about madrigal by August (so 2 months post draft). And by time he was in charlotte, man it was clear a bunch was bullshit. So, basically as much as he is an annoying person to read, you have to take keith law seriously. His sourced scouts are very good and critical especially against romantic stuff like madrigals grindiness. Now, the other thing unfortunately is the 2018 draft was garbage. Some post in 5 years is gonna be like "actually Nick Madrigal had like 6th most WAR in the first round" blah blah.

To be fair, when a leader leaves, along with an entire management team, it is kind of hard to know who the next leader would be. The personality of a locker room isn't a linear equation. Who knows who emerges. Of all of the things to be annoyed with, this isn't one. Also I do like the fact that Eloy still WANTS to play OF, even if it scares me to death. It at least means he isn't a quitter.

Did the team ever have a leader? As much praise as Jose got the clubhouse seemed to be in constant turmoil over the past 2-3 years. And the play on the field reflected it, almost 0 accountability.

That would fall to the longest tenured player, right?

This team always knows how to instill confidence ?

Well he also is still trying to play the outfield…

Didn't work out. That should be the motto for the Sox front office and ownership group.

The madrigal number is currently at 2852 for those keeping track at home

I still dispute that he treats this like a business. As a business it does a terrible job! The so called competitive white Sox have a stadium 1/3 empty in what is supposed to be a competitive year. They don’t invest in things that could have very large returns because of their owners biases - like the international signing market or in advance scouting or in Bryce Harper. They’re a business that hates their customers and believes they’re right and everyone else is wrong. They’d rather lose money than do things someone else’s way. Id have fewer complaints if they actually ran like a business. At least that behavior I can understand. It isn’t always successful, sometimes things I don’t like will happen, but at least I would understand chasing a maximum overall profit.

Hahn just isn't good at his job. JR sucks beyond belief, but Hahn continues to prove time and time again that he can't operate within the budget that JR sets. He wouldn't have a GM position with the 29 others teams.

If they really thought Benintendi would boost sales…??‍♀️??‍♀️

The Twins know you don't need players on some bullshit list to make your team better. Hahn can make trades like this all day long but for some reason he refuses. There's no reason for him to be sitting here with the roster he has other than he's just too scared to try to upgrade his team.

I can understand if Jason wants to move on, but please don't replace him with Len. Hell, Len wanted to get off of TV

Those were my EXACT same thoughts when I read this. This is a complete non-story in my eyes.

The problem is though the Sox brass will cater to him rather than lay down the law, he'll play in the outfield, do something stupid like run into a wall or the netting, have a serious injury and miss two months. All because of his ego.

I think they will try to rush him back by May. I think the longer you give him the better it is. There are many examples of people like Severino and Syndergaard who have the surgery in spring training of a year and then barely pitch the entire next year - they threw 6 and 2 big league innings a full year after their surgery, respectively. We saw this with Rodon, he had his in May 2019, tried to come back in September 2020 and he was simply useless in a couple of relief innings. This is absolutely the norm for this surgery right now, guys coming back and trying to throw max effort after 14 or 15 months see poor results and a lot of pain. I think simply healing all the way is a 12 to 14 month process maybe longer for some guys. Once that is finished, you need to build your whole body back up into pitching strength, which often takes months or even a full offseason. I think we saw Verlander have success because he had the surgery, had 12-13 months to heal, and then did a full and complete offseason training routine. I think Rodon came back strong in 2021 because he completed a full offseason training routine and had his body fully together and in shape. Just because your elbow is now fine doesn't mean you have strengthened your legs and you have your full mechanics back. I think in reality you shouldn’t count on Crochet for anything this year, you should assume it’s basically a lost season for him. He may well contribute more than that, but pushing him to do so isn’t likely to produce world beating results and may backfire. If you are counting on him to save the bullpen, look at the guys who threw 6 innings before winding up on the IL again and let me know what your plan is if that happens to Crochet. So personally, I’d bury him in Birmingham and bring him back super slowly once he was ready to see live hitting, and I’d just keep him there, I’d burn an option and not try to count on him for the big league bullpen at all. I would take any innings he could give and try to turn them towards long term development, rather than desperately trying to save the big league pen. This is way more consistent with how long the recoveries have been from TJS over the past 5 years. If there was a spot to call him up in September and his body was in good shape, fine, September callup when the rosters expand. I don’t expect the White Sox to do anything other than try to desperately pull every inning out of him that they can for this years’ big league pen.

Eloy the type to go to a vegan restaurant and ask for steak.

Look, whoever decided this was their guy blew it. I think that Madrigal is why the Sox shook up their drafting team. But the one thing they did right was to dump him after it became clear he wasn't who they though they were drafting. You can argue about who they got back, but dumping him wasn't the mistake.

If Elvis could be had for like 1/$3-4M to play 2B, considering the current state of the roster and external options, what would you guys think about that? I was never for it, but as the options dwindle, it feels better than handing the job to Romy if Evlis could actually be had for $3-4M.

Nah, Crochet is going to be needed in the pen. If they wanted to make him a SP, they should have done it in 2021 in the minors. With the TJS, ship has sailed.

No

I always thought he looked like a dummy when he was running but I couldn't put my finger on it. Definitely the running upright thing, that makes a lot of sense now.

Dear lord I wish we had traded Eloy and re-signed Abreu.

I was talking about Eloy’s comment on not knowing who would be the clubhouse leader.

The ownership sucks. More than ever it starts at the top. Reinsdorf is ok with ok/mediocre. His standards are soft and he is fine making money and being okay. He has zero aspirations for greatness and will always treat this like a business Vs a hobby (that makes money in long run). He is a good man - but as a fan - a lousy a owner cause mediocrity with a once every 50 years 2005 campaign where everything goes right is all we will ever get. Sad but true. Too low of a bar - not the right standard - no willingness to dig deep when it is needed or when you just have to to make a run. It’s sad but true.

Beckham is an auto mute for me. I watch a ton of out of town baseball & Benetti is the best PbP guy in the business to me. Even he can't make Beckham a tolerable listen.

Can the worst player on the team really be the leader?

Now's the time for Jerry to sell with no other AL teams up for sale ?

He's 0-3 so far.

High picks in bad drafts, and then like not even a first round pick in one of the best drafts of the millenium in 2011. By the time the white sox drafted Keenyn Allen 47th, sixteen future all stars had been selected. And that's shorthand, it misses Brandon Nimmo, Kolten Wong, Joe Ross and more. And 5 more all stars selected between Allen and Erik Johnson. The white sox then select scott snodgrass before Mookie Betts. This draft the white sox ended up selecting a future MVP finalist in Marcus Semien, and it was still a bad draft considering how much talent there was. The sox ended up nailing two drafts better than pretty much every other franchise in 2013 and 2010, and yet had they stacked 2009* and 2011 correctly it could have been a very different decade. But yeah, the sox sell and tank into some awful drafts. Thems the breaks, the cubs tanked into some incredible ones. Luckily the phillies weren't just relying on mickey moniak. *while trout is the easy one, look at how differently round 2 could go. Trayce Thompson was selected between Nolan Arenado and Jason Kipnis, and then DJ Lemahieu, Patrick Corbin and Kyle Seager go at the end.

This is the main thing right here. We bought a lemon, no doubt. No idea who failed here, but glad things were changed after because he was NOT what we were told he was. All of his pluses turned into mediocres very quickly.

He's an idiot loll

Yah, I think Pito was a silent leader. This team needs a vocal leader on the position player side. I feel like Liam might have been that guy, even though its probably more difficult for a reliever to be the team leader. But alas....

There's been times Eloy actually looks decent defensively. Of course it usually ends fairly quickly with some sort of injury. And it's 50/50 at best he throws to the correct base or a cut off man.

Crochet hasn't started a game since 2019. Crochet is coming off TJS. Those two facts make his situation very different from Strider. If the Sox wanted to develop him as a starter, it would probably take 2 full years in the minors.

I mean, I wouldn't take three Nellie Foxes, but I would certainly take one Nellie Fox in the lineup. The problem was Madrigal couldn't defend as well, draw walks as well, wasn't as fast nor as healthy as Nellie Fox. If Madrigal gave us 717 at-bats with a .770 OPS and gold glove defense, I think we'd all have been over the moon. Also, Nellie Fox inspired Big League Chew, which automatically propels him to the top of the chart.

Yeah. Seems very telling.

I' stuck between you and Balta. You put entirely too much blame on LaRussa and the player's attitudes playing under him as if they weren't motivated to play well. I despise that kind of thinking. It portrays the players as weak minded or on the level with fans , frustrated and without reason to play well. Well, how about all the millions of dollars they make and the impact poor performance can have on future money they make ? And yes Cleveland is good, very good. They play hard, they hustle. They have a guy like Jose Ramirez setting an example. They had rookies play well, they have a deep farm system and more pitching on the way. Their 1 and 3 prospects are both starting pitchers. They have another top rookie in Bo Naylor coming. 14 of their top 23 rookie ETA is either 2022 or 2023 so they have young depth. Only 6 of the Sox top 23 prospects have an ETA or 2022/2023 , Colas, Sosa, Rodriguez, Cespedes , Bilous and the reliever they just got from the Giants, Santos, in an incredibly weaker system. Bilous is the only starting pitcher listed with an ETA of 2023 and he's way down the list at 22 in a much weaker system. While the Guardians invest less in payroll they offset it with really investing in their farm system. I think they signed somewhere around 25 IFA whereas for now the Sox are at 9. The Guardians have 2 DSL teams while the Sox have 1. JR at his finest. If we were expecting some better luck with health it hasn't exactly gone according to plan with the loss of Hendriks before the season has started. The Sox have no starting pitching depth, no position player depth, no OF depth. Too much has to go right and when it goes wrong they don't have the depth to fix it. You'd think after 3 years of never getting top performances out of Robert and Eloy teamed together they would at least have provided some quality OF depth like Duvall to cover for that, But nope. 2 of their best bench pieces have nowhere to play due to their gloves, Burger and Sheets. Counting on the BP to be still good after Hendriks loss is like flipping a coin and expecting heads 6 out 10 times. Expecting career years and enough health from the starters to cover for the woeful lack of depth and is a very bad plan. What can go wrong ?

relevant to the madrigal stuff, a BA article just came out on whether certain struggling former top prospects could make it. Scout’s Take: “To me, there is no MLB carrying tool because his ability to make contact is not impactful. He’s not a plus runner, he’s not a plus defender, he doesn’t have a plus arm and he doesn’t have power. “It’s a hard profile. He’s a contact bat that doesn’t strike out but doesn’t walk. He’s not a feared hitter in a lineup. I just don’t see him as a guy who can impact the game in any way, and it’s hard for him to be a utility guy because he can’t play the left side of the infield. He can’t hit leadoff because he doesn’t get on base enough and he can’t hit second because he doesn’t run and he can’t drive a ball out of the park. So where do you put him? I just don’t see a major league role for him.” Basically nellie fox. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/scouts-on-jo-adell-jarred-kelenic-and-other-graduated-prospects-yet-to-establish-themselves/

Now, objectively speaking, it would be hysterical for the Sox to reacquire Madrigal and for him to tear it up after listening to Cubs fans say that Madrigal was "payback" for the Quintana trade.

The guy can't hold up as a reliever. How is he going to hold up as a starter?

If I were in charge of this team, I would absolutely be trying to turn him into a starter, because it’s worth the effort. I looked back at “guys who had TJS, what did they do if they came back 14 or 15 months later” and the results were terrible. A majority of guys were effectively useless, the last time someone had TJS in spring training and came back for a decent second half was Rafael Montero in 2019. Despite a couple dozen guys having TJS early in seasons since then, it’s very rare for guys to be even remotely useful the next year. If guys are useful, it’s once they heal fully after 14 or 15 months then take a full offseason to get into shape, so 20 months or more after the surgery. Many guys come back sooner than that and then struggle with other injuries during that first year, probably because they haven’t had a chance to get their whole body into pitching shape and get the feel back for everything. Given that, if I were in charge, i would take my time with him. When he is ready to come back I would send him to the minors, and burn an option after his rehab stint ends. Maybe even BHam rather than Charlotte. I’d get him on a starter schedule and maybe start with 2-3 innings a game, maybe get to 5 innings on starts by September. If he’s healthy enough, get to 50 or 60 innings total, and use the fact that it’s the minors to reduce the stress on his body. Then, he’s set up to maybe have a shot at throwing 110 or 120 next year - and I would absolutely think about starting him in Charlotte and burning another minor league option to do it. What do I expect the White Sox to do? Especially without Hendriks, they will rush him back to the bullpen as fast as possible and hope for the best. That will leave him in the bullpen permanently because he won’t even start building up innings this year, especially if some other injury or soreness crops up, which is very typical for guys less than 2 years from TJS. I fully expect people to say “how can we have this many injuries no one could have foreseen this we are snakebit again” when he sprains an ankle or something.

Neither has Madrigal, and you have to give up something to get him.

Strengthening and stretching his arm out is 1 thing…but he would also have to develop a consistent 3rd pitch at the same time. He’s been pretty much a 2 pitch pitcher since college. Not saying it would be an impossible task, but just saying that I don’t think endurance is his only hurdle.

What part of his .588 OPS and 68 OPS+ am I supposed to be impressed by? He was trash last year.

Again this is what I was told about this situation from one of my multiple sources in the "State of the Sox" story: “Jason Benetti’s deal with the Sox is up, the Sox hold the option for the 2023 and 2024 seasons. He went to Fox to negotiate that deal with them after he was told to do it and then come back to the Sox and they’d work something out. Jason wanted to get the deal done with the Sox first and then go to Fox or ESPN or whoever. Turns out when he came back to the Sox and said that he needs 40 days off so he can do the Fox work he was told, ‘no, that’s not happening.’ So I don’t know what’s going to happen to him or Steve Stone.”

Longtime DJ on WXRT in Chicago Lin Brehmer at the age of 68 of prostate cancer. A tribute featuring his coworkers starts tomorrow @ 10am on WXRT.

I’m friends with someone that would be one of the first to know if Benetti was leaving, and he hasn’t heard he won’t be back.