Leaderboard

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/how-will-white-sox-approach-2023-trade-deadline The last half of the article is classic Hahn bullshit…taking the middle course of only trading Gio Grandal Middleton and maybe Lynn since all could be or are in their last years with the Sox. Even that would be a little shocking since there’s zero depth to replace two holes in the rotation, let alone three with Clevinger. Then your other two starters can never give you much more than 5+. That’s just never going to work without the best bullpen in the history of the game and best team defense and running game to take advantage of the new style of play like the Orioles or Guardians or Rays. The only thing the Sox actually possess is the most expensive bullpen in history…but certainly not the most effective.

They are a bottom 3 team in the AL right now. They are a bottom 5 system in MLB and they have a bunch of salary on the books next year already, very little to spend. They have zero path to being better the next several years. They can bury their heads in the sand and insist that things will be better, but that will just extend the pain.

Hahn has always been full of s%*# and obviously a disastrous GM. When you look back at his credentials, why would we expect him to be good as a GM? Ok after he graduated from Michigan he went to Harvard law school and then got an MBA from Northwestern. Those are fine academic achievements, but they have nothing to do with judging baseball prospects, judging ML pro players, drafting, developing a strong farm system, negotiating solid trades and signing productive free agent, etc. His first job after all the college was as an sports agent which has nothing to do with prearing to be a good GM. Then his second job he somehow lucked into the assistant GM under Kenny. Here is what we do know: 1. He never played baseball. 2. He never was a baseball scout. 3. He never learned the various aspects of a successful baseball organization by moving up the ranks and doing different meaningful positions. 4. Then when Hahn did fail miserably as GM, the owner was ignorant, stubborn and ridiculously loyal to a detrimental point, in not firing Hahn. This of course is the basic definition of Insanity.

I'd argue it is intolerable baseball right now.

They don’t have potential. This lineup is absolute trash.

Only the White Sox can have 2 games in the same week, where they strike out the other team 16 times, and lose.

If Moncada is out the year, and Burger is the regular 3B he will end up with a near zero or negative fWAR, and be among if not the worst defensive 3B in MLB. Will likely impact his bat as well, finish around .750 or below. They protected him and batted him 7th/8th for a reason, he is being completely exposed once teams took notice that they actually had to pay attention to him. Last 14 games .542 OPS, .180 OBP Last 28 games .722 OPS, .247 OBP

Worst. Player. On. The. Field.

If his shoulder is as bad as they are reporting then maybe they should IL him and let it rest…. Maybe it would do some good too for those who say his “legs” not being under him is the reason for him not having any power……wouldn’t have any excuses at that point.

Actually Freidman was a highly regarded baseball player in high school and went to Tulane on a baseball scholarship. He suffered a bad injury in his freshman year and then a second bad one his sophomore year, which unfortunately ended his college baseball career. His lack of baseball time in college was due to injury and not that he wasn't good player or didn't understand the game. The other fact is, Andrew Friedman knew the Rays owner Stuart Sternberg even before Sternberg bought the Rays. They knew each other from their investment/analyst brokerage days. When Steinberg bought the Rays he brought Friedman along with him for his Rays front office. Friedman's first job was as a player development director and not as an Asst GM like Hahn. All the years Friedman was in Tampa, they were always the lowest payroll in baseball or close to the bottom. Thus he had to learn developing a farm system because he didn't have money to spend on expensive free agents or make trades to get established veterans. In fact, in a interview with Friedman while with the current Dodgers, he was asked by a reporter why he was so successful. He alluded to the fact, that learning to be a GM with no payroll in TB, forced him to learn how to build a baseball team the correct way, which was through the farm system. Hahn never had to learn that aspect. This is why Friedman was so valuable to the Dodgers. He could now spend endless money, but still also bring his knowledge of building a successful farm system to the Dodgers. If you go look at the good successful younger GM's today like Mike Elias in Baltimore or Mike Chernoff of Cleveland and you look at their resume, they worked up through the organization in different critical jobs. They also played baseball. I'm sorry but, Hahn had none of these modern day executive training responsibilities as the top young GMs have experienced. I get there are other aspects of being a great GM other than scouting, like negotiating deals, knowing how make solid trades, hiring good managers, etc, but obviously Hahn hasn't learned any of those skills either. The bottom line is, Hahn sucks as a GM. The longer he is here, the longer it will take for the White Sox to ever be a successful winning playoff contender.

Leave it to the White Sox to have two #1 groups in the past two decades to make the least major league imprint. That’s not easy to do at all. It’s a big part of the reason they have come to rely on so many Tier B/C free agents, unfortunately…not even having the ability to sustain the contention window with replacement level players.

This GM has such a consistent historic record of f***ing up this exact decision that I will believe it when I see it. 2015, the team is 10 games below .500 in June and 11 games back in the division. A winning streak brings them to 5 under by early July and Rick Hahn declares “if we keep playing like this we’ll be right there at the end”. He sells no deadline pieces, including Samardzija who was an upcoming free agent. They finish in 4th place, 10 games under .500 and 19 back in the division. They don’t learn their lesson one bit, double down on that roster being one player away with Frazier the next offseason. When that team hit on a huge losing skid in May, they double down again by trading for Shields. They finally at the deadline basically stand pat, I think they sent one lefty reliever out. Oh and they draft a closer in the first round because maybe he can help the 2016 bullpen. 2022 they look hopeless but they’re bouncing between 3 and 6 games back in the division in July. If they don’t clear money it could seriously hurt 2023s roster. They add a lefty reliever at the deadline and finish 11 games back. Between Hahn’s foolishness and stubbornness, and maybe his sycophantic unwillingness to tell Reinsdorf bad news, he has stood firm in worse, more difficult positions than this one. A couple wins and he might be 4 games back again, even while still in fourth place. They have a long and consistent record of burying their heads in sand and declaring everything is fine In exactly this situation. So, I Will believe they will make a correct decision when they have made it, not before.

Well someone has to make a game thread because something interesting is happening. Tim Anderson is now at 2b, presumably to clear playing time for their long-term solution at SS, Elvis Andrus.

Go enjoy your summer guys. Life is too short (if you're over 30) to worry about a team this s%*# and with bad ownership. I'm just keeping it real. I'm ashamed I even bothered to post this after checking the box.

This team is nothing more than an investment to JR. An MLB team goes up in value no matter what it does on the field and he knows that as well as anyone. He won his WS. He has no desire to sink any more money in to this thing. As fans of this team we are screwed until a new owner takes over who hopefully wants to win more than anything.

Last year the Cardinals acquired Quintana. He was super cheap financially and on a one year deal. It cost them a reliever (Oviedo) and their number 10 prospect, who would probably be number 5 in our system. The Yankees gave up their number 5, Number 10, number 20, and number 21 prospects for Montas, but he had two years of control remaining. The first is probably a closer comp for Giolito.

……

Ozzie calling out TA attitude in the post game

Anderson and Andrus

Honestly we still have potential. If we sell we are going to be horrendous for a long time. We are competing and losing. We are not identifying the reasons why we just find ways to lose. If we sell, it will just be intolerable baseball.

Fire everyone, trade anyone

Amazing that the hitters look surprised to be getting cutters from Kenley

Pitching staff gives up 4 hits total, records 17 K's, loses. PLEASE, tear this thing apart.

where both Hahn and the entire White Sox organization failed was at the different mlb drafts. we tanked for all of those years yet basically nothing came out of their low picks. Fulmer, Collins, Madrigal, Vaughn (yes, Vaughn is fair at best) have all failed. you cannot miss on all of those first round picks and expect to win, yet the white Sox did. Add in the fact that they are incapable of developing any talent and you have an organization that is an absolute disaster!!!!

Sorry ass........ Approach to hitting Approach to playing baseball Coaches Players Organization

That's because DPs require baserunners.

TA hitting a decently struck flyball for what feels like the first time all season

Lol go away Tim

Trade him for a good GM.

Burke continues his 33 game on base streak with a homer, surpassing the team record set by Montgomery last year.

If Tim Anderson can be asked to shift to 2B, there is no reason why Moncada (a better glove all around) cannot be asked to do the same in order to keep Burger in the lineup permanently. Moncada and Anderson are weak ass bats where they should accommodate if asked to.

Don't read into it! HAHA Everything Grifol and Hahn do absolutely needs major reading into...because many of their moves have been bad.

Pedro done some goofy things but Hahn should be the first one fired

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2017/11/23/theo-epstein-brookline-field-goal-contests-horror-game-6-boston-sports-memories Looking back on Theo Epstein’s rise as a GM, it’s obvious that he at least had that fundamental understanding of team sports and competition…despite his physical limitations. It’s where his drive about winning and organizational culture basically came from. And if there’s ONE thing the White Sox have consistently lacked, it’s a unifying set of rules and principles for the entire organization like the Braves, Astros, Rays, Dodgers and Cardinals. A major reason for this is the Sox major league rosters were always sewn together haphazardly with baling wire from 10-15 different teams…the minor leaguers failed to advance as a wave or unit, year after year building upon previous successes and growing to trust their teammates for 3-5 years together before hitting the big leagues. They never could rely on teammates and coaches…just themselves. Hence, all the current trust issues prevalent across the entire organization.

From what sources told me about Hahn this past off season which I printed in a story in November: “The issue with Rick is he’s got all these guys around him like Jeremy Haber (Author’s Note: Haber is the Assistant General Manager), friends from Michigan or someplace and they aren’t baseball guys. They didn’t play the game and have no real idea of what it takes. D.J. (Author’s Note: Sox broadcaster Darrin Jackson) and others have said the same thing.” “I thought Hahn was prepared to do well, his last few years as assistant G.M. he was out on the road, watching guys, scouting, trusting what he saw. Then when he became G.M. he started getting guys like J.B. Schuck.” “Rick won’t leave in part because his wife doesn’t want to leave the area unless it is for a job in California where she’s from.” “Hahn actually is in charge, more than people think, although Kenny has input and of course JR has the final say.” “Hahn put his foot down with Renteria, he wanted his manager to start doing what he (Hahn) asked.” “Hahn is a go-along, get along type of guy, I don’t want to say he was dour this past season but there was a defensiveness to him that you could see especially when Tony was mentioned.” “I’ll use a political term to describe Rick, he’s a ‘filibusterer.’ When Theo Epstein was running the Cubs everything he said meant something, if you went back to reread what he said you could read between the lines and figure out what he was saying. With Rick you heard what he said but then when you went back and reread his comments you realized he said less than you thought he did when he first spoke.” “In 2016 when the rebuild started I thought he did the right thing and he deserved credit for that. I also thought at the time that giving out those long-term deals was good. No one could have foreseen how those contracts impacted those guys and their effort. But it was clear when Tony LaRussa was hired that Rick really is powerless. I just don’t have a lot of faith that he can get this done. And words matter, when he talked about “Multiple championships” and “Call me after the parade”…if you are going to be arrogant like that you need to deliver and he hasn’t.”

I imagine if the Sox hired someone like Francona, he’d probably say it would take more than a few months to overhaul the system and implement a new culture throughout the organization, rather than delivering ongoing professions of believing in it, a la Grifol.

He's purposely sabotaging us, I knew it

5. He grew up a Cubs fan.

Yeah it makes no sense. There has to be some non-baseball reason why Hahn has perhaps the longest leash in the history of failed sports GMs.

Also had a Top farm system in 1999-2001. The best of all those guys were Buehrle, Garland, Crede and Rowand…but almost all of the pitchers busted, guys like Ginter, Barcelo, Stumm, Wright, Baldwin, Biddle and Myette. Parque and Snyder fell apart. Borchard and Rauch became synonymous with bust. Reed and Morse and Olivo the core of the Garcia deal that became the heart of the rotation with Contreras. Fogg and Wells had decent careers. But the main reason for the 2005 title was trades (Cotts Pods and Everett yet another), FA and waiver pickups (Jenks) and all those KW buy low specials that hit one after another…undoubtedly more those 3 seasons than Hahn in an entire decade.

June 23, 1919 – White Sox center fielder Oscar “Happy” Felsch tied a record originally set in 1904 when he recorded 12 chances in a nine-inning game. He had 11 putouts and one assist in the 3-2 loss to Cleveland at Comiskey Park. That record has never been matched. June 23, 1956 – It was first of the two great fights on the field between Yankee and White Sox players; almost one year later, June 13, 1957, the second one took place. In this one Bob Grim (the late uncle to former Sox Director of Business Development and Broadcasting Bob Grim) threw one high and tight to Sox outfielder Dave Philley in the home half of the sixth inning. The ball glanced off Philley’s shoulder and bounced into his batting helmet knocking it off. Philley charged the mound as the benches and bullpens emptied. Both players swung at each other, as the rest of the teams held each other back. Order was restored after about 20 minutes. Philley was tossed from the game. Grim was allowed to stay in, but perhaps shaken; he was tagged for two runs...driven in by Sherm Lollar and Luis Aparicio, the only runs on the day in the Sox 2-0 win. June 23, 1958 - The Sox purchased the contract of pitcher Omar “Turk” Lown from the Reds. Lown and teammate Gerry Staley, also acquired via the purchase route in 1956, gave the Sox one of the top bullpens in baseball during the late 1950's/early 1960's. They were especially effective during the 1959 championship season. That year Lown would go 9-2 with a 2.89 ERA and 15 saves. Staley also had 15 saves that year and those two led the league in that category. Lown’s best pitch was a blazing fastball that was among the best in baseball. The first time he faced both Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams he threw nothing but fastballs and struck them both out on three pitches. June 23, 1963 - Sox catcher J.C. Martin set an American League record by being involved in three double plays in a 2-0 loss at Cleveland. Martin had two strike out/throw out double plays and was also in the middle of a third base to catcher to first base one. His record would later be tied by another Sox catcher, Ed Hermann. And in both cases the Sox would lose the game!

I have no doubt you are probably right. We are talking about the worst owner in baseball. Stupid is as Stupid does! I was just explaining why the Orioles are doing so well with so little money and illustrating how other smart owners unlike our POS owner, actually do things the right way to be successful, by going to the outside winning organizations to find their executives. I also came to grips a long time ago, that none of this dysfunctional BS with the Sox will ever change until Reinsdorf passes away and the team is sold. The only other hope is that as Jerry gets older and has perhaps a serious loss of cognitive skills or dementia... then maybe you might see his son Michael run the team. If that doesn't happen, then I'll just wait until the team is sold.

Sox sign Ohtani to 10yr $600 million Sox use 25 other $780k Charlotte Knights and Birmingham Barons players on roster $60 million + $19.8 million = $79.8 million. Cost savings. This is easy. Get it done… ?

It’s Vaughn and literally every other player in the organization, besides maybe Cease and Gio. Every other player in this organization has either not met expectations or has gotten worse upon arrival. I agree Vaughn’s ceiling is limited, but wouldn’t shock me to see him be an above average starter once he leaves. It’s more than time to admit that this organization is rotten to its core and it’s not the individual players. I wish I knew the exact reason behind it, but clearly there’s a major problem that prevents players from succeeding here.

Why would Quentin be a good comp? Carlos had 36 homers in his age 25 year, had a 30 homer per 162 avg, and had an 830 plus career OPS. Vaughn has shown no signs he is even close to that level.

Who else is offering a live orchestra for walk up music. That’s the extra sauce we need!

100 percent spot on.

I don't believe any active player can own any type of percentage in a team. When they retire, of course, that's different.