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I wanted Eloy traded last offseason when his value was higher. He clearly has no defensive value and swings at way too many pitches outside the zone to be an effective DH. Burger would look much nicer at DH, but that's too late now.

Remember when Arizona gave up on him like immediately after drafting him, and we were all like "wtf LOLDiamondbacks"? Can you imagine needing to jettison someone from your org so badly that you dump a #3 overall pick within a year of drafting him despite that fact that he clearly showed Cy-level potential?

I don't think anyone has their own agenda lmao good grief.

For real though, if TA is our current clubhouse cancer, Bauer would be a stage 4 glioblastoma.

Here I was trying to get to the bottom of this SERIOUS CRIME over two years ago. I still stand by my f*** him. https://twitter.com/laurencomitor/status/718858389695160320 Yep, pretty sure it was him. LOL

That last TD throw was in exactly the right place where the defender had no chance to get at the ball. Pinpoint accuracy or luck? I'm not sure. I still have questions about his seeing the field and not showing escapability in the pocket, but this one was sort of fun. For sure he's shed any reputation as inaccurate. I'm happy for him, he's a really nice kid.

I would pay it for both of them, especially Crochet. Crochet has real talent Clint Frazier, on the other hand.... If they don't pay for Touki, they'll pay $10 million for a "proven veteran" fifth-starter type who is no better than Touki is.

I'm inclined to agree that no competetent org would send him to AAA, but stranger things have happened. My point is that the "sink or swim" school of development is outdated and will continue to set us back. Competent organizations have strategies in mind, and they deliberately seek out players who they see can benefit the most from their pipelines. Development doesn't stop once you hit the big leagues, either. With the Sox, it's just a "sink or swim" school of thought, and it seems like we see the results time and again of players (especially hitters) languishing with the Sox but thriving once they leave.

I taught government. It's correct. You can report a crime, file a report with the police. They decide if the person should be arrested and a prosecutor decides if they should pursue charges. You can't demand someone be arrested and prosecuted. Well I guess you can demand it, but they don't have to do it.

That '77 team played 81 games at Old Comiskey while the 2000 team played 81 at the Cell which was a launching pad in those days. In '77 no matter what the score I never felt like the Sox were out of the game . But both of those teams had a great offense, for sure. 2000 had Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, Lee, Durham ... Mercy!

I don’t know how they came to those conclusions but just comparing the 1977 and 2000 team the 2000 team led 978 runs to 844 runs, had 216 home runs to 192 and team batting average was .286 to .278. Despite those stats I will agree that the first 4 months of 1977 was the most fun I’ve ever witnessed by a Sox team, old Comiskey was really rocking that summer but unfortunately that team had only fair pitching and the defense wasn’t great either. I wonder how the 2006 isn’t on that list either.

MLBTR came out with their projected arb salaries for 2024. Usually pretty close. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/10/projected-arbitration-salaries-for-2024.html Clint Frazier: $900k Dylan Cease: $8.8M Michael Kopech: $3.6M Trayce Thompson: $1.7M Matt Foster: $740k Touki Toussaint: $1.7M Garrett Crochet: $900k Andrew Vaughn: $3.7M Of this group, I would guess Frazier and Thompson are non-tendered. Probably Foster too.

If he stays in Charlotte, he should use Jackson.....then Getz might accidentally call him up not realizing who he really is. Clint Frazier arbitration offer.....$450,000 Jackson Frazier arbitration offer....$600,000

Yeah, the South Side Hitmen of '77 were definitely the best hitting Sox team. That was another fun season to be a White Sox fan.

That is a big blow for the Marlins.

I only found out about it looking at White Sox stats on Fangraphs where I take it they didn’t learn about his change of heart and listed him as Jackson Frazier. I was like who the hell is this? They changed his name back to Clint Frazier before the season ended, but the link to Jackson Frazier remains. https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jackson-frazier/15983/stats?position=OF&season=2020

I remembered him from a clip someone sent me of some college chick spitting on him. I believed he liked it as well. I believe he is some sort of provocateur. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11351011/amp/Shocking-moment-Penn-State-student-SPITS-Alex-Stein-protest-campus-comedy-event.html

TJ for Sandy Alcantara

Eloy is one of a few hitters that gives the Sox a chance to get an RBI or get an extra base hit late in games. His batting average and other stats compared to the rest of the line-up bear that out. His positive demeanor is an asset to clubhouse chemistry and fan support and his friendship with Robert decrease the likelihood he will be traded. Player trades are not made to satisfy personal preferences of certain fans who have their own little agendas. So sorry.

I dig this.

Yeah, they're not going to sign 3 veteran starters to fill the rotation at $10-15M each. I think Touki is a safe bet back and maybe less than that $1.7 figure.

Thank you.

Who the hell does he think he is? Yolmer Sanchez?? I knew Carlos Sanchez, he was a friend of mine, you sir are no Carlos Sanchez.

Alex Stein to break this is hilarious.

What I learned from watching a couple of minutes of that is that Alex Stein is a bit creepy. "I need Daddy to choke me out" turns you on a bit dude??

I will definitely admit this was a significant improvement and IIRC somewhere in this thread I was begging him to just throw the ball into the area of Moore and let him make a few plays so it's darn nice to see this happening. They have better weapons this year than last year, so he does need to make use of them. He's got to both keep it up and show up against better defenses though, if you want to think about this as a long term option.

I have them at around $135M right now, but that includes the arb projections, Clevinger and TA's 2024 amounts, and the final year of Leury Garcia's contract. Edit: my sources are MLB TR for the arb numbers and the rest is Spotrac.

A little of both. Washington's defense is very overrated. Their defensive line has a bunch of high draft picks, but I don't think they play great as a unit. Their defensive backs are really bad, as we saw last night. Denver is Denver. The offense looks different. The play calling is different. I think Getsy realized that Fields does not do well on throws down the middle. We saw his hesitation to throw the deep ins the first 2 games. They were wide open and he straight up just did not throw them. So these last 2 games has seen a lot of throws to the sidelines. When you have a young QB who is not good at anticipation throws, the last thing you want him to do is to throw it between 3 zones in the middle of the field. There's also been way more designed runs, which is something that was basically non-existent the first 2 weeks and something you have to make the opposing defense at least prepare for. Lastly, they finally started doing the tush push on 3rd/4th and shorts and it worked every time last night. No more stupid Kmet sneaks. No more runs out of shotgun. The lack of execution on those short yardage situations might have cost the Bears at least a game, so it's good they finally adapted to what the whole league has been doing. The thing is that the upcoming schedule has a lot of bad defenses. So there's a chance Fields comes out of this 4 week stretch with some good numbers.

I can't believe Crochet is already arb-eligible. They did not use his pre-arb years particularly well. Personally I wouldn't pay that for Toussaint either.

The state does not need a victim to consent or "press charges" in order to proceed with a criminal case. This is a common misconception. A prosecutor can proceed with a case regardless of whether a victim "signs off," and prosecutors will proceed without victim consent, including in domestic violence cases, and even if a victim affirmatively says they want to "drop the charge" (which they don't have the power to do.) Now, if you're just saying that the state may not *bother* bringing a minor charge where they know they won't have the cooperation of a victim, then yes -- that's accurate. But it's a matter of practicality, they are not legally barred from doing so.

No way he stepped out. Why the heck did they never show the replay. There were some near misses with Moore and Mooney that could have been more. Still not a complete game though but man, this is progress Justin!!!

Moore is simply incredible. That’s some Steve Smith s%*#

He's also gotten really good protection today. They've kept him clean on a vast majority of the snaps. Having Jenkins back is making a big difference right now.

Fields looks like a completely different QB over the last 6 quarters. Calm, poised and decisive in the pocket. The light may have come on. Need to see more though. I have been critical of his play but he has earned some leeway with the last 2 games.

Jake hit 25 bombs with the Sox in 294 at bats and 9 for the Marlins in 198 AB, I'm not seeing what you're claiming. Jake hit a homer every 11.76 AB's for the Sox, while it took 22 AB's to hit the 9 for the Marlins. I said once on this site that I'm not good at Math, but I think I got this one.

Anyone see Eloy go down like a redwood after taking the pitch off his toe durning the last series? Granted I'm sure it hurt, but he was down on the ground in a hurry like he was shot moaning and yelling. Get rid of him, another distraction and as you said an injury waiting to happen.

I don’t follow, please elaborate

Even if TA has a good first half of next year, what is the market value for a 2 month rental of an over 30 proven clubhouse headache who is also a defensive liability with almost no power? You're not going to get anything of real value long term for him. Cut bait now. The only way picking up the option makes sense to me is if you wanted him around and could get a team-friendly long term contract out of him at a good future value for a good first half.

I think a poll is useless. In a specific case like Clevinger or Bauer even true baseball fans do not know the full stories and even accounts of the full story can be grossly inaccurate. Hell I'm reading this thread and have found myself thinking. Hmm I must be way behind on the Bauer stuff. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and making your female fans even more aware of Clevinger while you are still employing him isn't exactly great PR. Hey fans we are employing a guy who you might consider an asshole or worse and we were wondering if you are not attending any games because of this ? Feel free to read whatever you want to form your opinion or just take our word for it that we continue to employ him because MLB decided not to discipline him. Please also feel free to determine if you didnt attend any games due to Tim Anderson or Daryl Boston and any other person employed by the White Sox who may not live up to your standards of conduct .

Now you're exaggerating. I watched a lot of White Sox baseball the last two seasons, and I saw Vaughn dig a lot of throws out of the dirt. He has reasonable range and his arm to second base is fine. Sure, he messed up a few balls. Those are called errors. Everyone has a few. Yes, I remember two foul balls that got the best of him. Big deal. If you want to talk about his outfield play, I'll agree with you, but not his first base play.

So you’re the problem. You need to leave the country. Take Grifol with you.

Valid point to be sure but just for discussion sake let's say the four guys are OK offensively...surround them with crap for the other five lineup spots (which is what the Sox had) and the four guys would each have to put up MVP-type numbers for said offense to be any good. Obviously that didn't happen. Sox had way to many automatic outs in the lineup.

After the last 2 years I'd say that asserting any player on the White Sox is not a clubhouse problem is a truly bold, bewildering statement.

I'm old school and look at batting average first and home runs second with 1B / DH players, Extrapolated season average hitting for Vaughn and Eloy from baseball reference: Vaughn over three years and 1493 ABs hitting average is .256 with 21 HRs Eloy over five years and 1642 ABs hitting average is .275 with 33 HRs Yes, Eloy has been on the injured list but a lot of that has been overblown, including surgery to get his appendix removed and a freak injury reaching to save a HR in ST. Also he is now a DH so the injury argument is largely inapplicable. Athleticism: Eloy is a tall player with some speed. Vaughn looks like he is boxing out with age and is already one of the slowest players in MLB. Intangibles: Eloy is a character that some like or don't like for whatever their reasons might be, but he adds to the team and is a cheerleader for other players in the dugout. Vaughn is more reserved which is fine. Neither player is a problem in the clubhouse. Eloy appears to have better plate coverage. Vaughn still has issues hitting outside pitches and is repeatedly victimized by outside sliders with 2 strikes. I would keep both players for one more year. There is much to do to improve this team that does not involve Eloy or Vaughn.

I feel like they’re going to trade one, keep one. Although I feel like like they’re probably going to cut money so maybe push hard for Eloy to be dealt.

Are you happy with the seasons by Kopech, Cease, Kelly, Lynn, Giolito, Lopez?

Jimenez needs to be traded. Guy is an injury waiting to happen and any thought he'll ever have a 35-40 home run season is delusional. Keep Vaughn (for now.)

I think they already decided that they did nothing wrong, the problem was just a couple of people (Hahn and Williams) but they don't need to make any fundamental changes, they need to keep doing things the way they have been doing, just with a few minor tweaks.

She looked pretty happy and unharmed in those bed videos.

Honestly, I've grown so numb to this team that I don't think I would be upset nor excited if we signed this guy. This team needs arms and you can sign him for cheap. Also, bring back Clevinger, our best pitcher of 2023.