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Which is what made JR's statements about not being able to survive at the current location disingenuous from the start. If he cared to put a winning product on the field regularly, hired competent baseball ops people, and did not meddle (cough cough TLR), they could easily average 2.5+ million fans year on end. Moving 2 miles north might draw more tourists and casual fans, but the reason they don't draw well on 35th street has way more to do with the team and those in charge than location.

The need for this board to attribute all blame to one driver is frustrating. Jerry Reinsdorf has been an absolutely atrocious owner and has certainly killed a lot of fan interest during tenure. However, the current ballpark is also a problem and will never consistently draw causal fans or tourists. The proposed ballpark in the 78 will address the latter and Father Time will address the former soon enough. There is literally a path to becoming an elite sports franchise right in front of our eyes and many here would rather Jerry lose and/or a bunch of tourists not be taxed for using hotels. I hate to break the news to you guys, but even if this deal doesn’t happen, Jerry has already won the life lottery. His kids and their kids and their kids will forever be blessed with unfathomable wealth. Whether he can make another couple hundred million off a stadium deal doesn’t change the calculus. So what does Jerry losing actually accomplish? It puts the franchise in a weaker state for the next owner and causes us Sox fans to lose out on what will likely be a truly incredible ballpark experience. But hey, at least when tourists come to visit their hotel stays will be a bit cheaper…seems like a huge win for us Illinois taxpayers!

They lead the league in attendance because they spend on their team and they are really good and have been for a long time. The Sox have not done this and are terrible.

I know Spring Training is fluffy than marshmallows, but his interview with Vinnie Duber was hysterical. Time-stamped for your listening pleasure (misery)? On DeJong: "Has done it before. He didn't lose it. It's still there." - Hit .207 last year, was released by 2 teams. Hit under .200 in 2021 and 2022. On Lopez: "He hit .300 in the American League a few years ago." - So did former batting champion Tim Anderson! Lopez is a career .249 hitter, so 2021 is currently an outlier. On Maldonado: "I don't feel that he's a .180 hitter." - Technically correct since 2019. He's been a .191 hitter in five seasons since then. Grifol is going to be like TLR with Leury Garcia with us, but with 3 terrible hitters.

You are better off saying nothing than saying something obviously untrue. Give a meaningless word salad, its fine, just don't lie to our faces.

This is going to be a loooooong season if people are hanging on this dude's every word.

He's an idiot.

I wouldn't be surprised if he starts his morning reading through Bulls and Sox forums so he can rub his nipples at how much misery hes causing the city.

We're in a thread on Grifol. I will trust him when he has earned it. His behavior last year gives me deep skepticism about his willingness to correctly make use of his young guys. If he has a crappy veteran and uses that as an excuse to mistreat a young guy....again...it will create anger about the presence of the veteran as well as anger about him. And I think I'm pretty clearly expecting this to happen - hell, they already blocked Korey Lee because they needed veteran leadership around their other young catcher on the roster, Max Stassi.

Can I interest you in a slightly used baseball stadium with plenty of parking?

We all hate Jerry, no doubt. He’s a pathetic owner. With that said, I don’t hate him enough to want the Sox to leave.

They need an owner to rebrand them - kind of like the Clippers under Balmer. Not saying Clippers have won a championship and they will never be the Lakers - but they are building their own stadium, creating their own buzz, and definitely have a much bigger presence than before - but more than that - Sox fans - we don't care whether we are the most popular team in Chicago - we care about being the better team - I do think a new stadium and than the new owner (which I just presume is coming with it) will align that way.

This week is a prelude to what we'll be seeing on a regular basis for the upcoming season.

If I had to diagnose this thread, I'd say it's more about the fact that Getz is trying to half-ass build a "win-now" roster of older guys while trading youth. I'm ambivalent towards moving Thompson overall cause he got buried. But it might have been worth seeing him as a reliever. This isn't the Mena trade, which reeks of "call J.G. Wentworth, because I need a warm body in RF now!" The Sox are familiar with Horn, he's a lefty reliever which (as many have pointed out) is worth its weight in gold (or Nicky Lopez, Mike Soroka +++). He could become very valuable, or he could be s%*#! It's just that Getz' philosophy is "with Paul DeJong's glove, anything is possible for our pitchers. Empty the farm! Go!" Edit: He's obviously not emptying the farm, but that's clearly why people are panicking. Because this is what the prior regime - that Getz was a part of - did.

You can have a good team and crappy stadium or a crappy team and a good stadium and still draw well either way. But you can't have both be crappy and expect to have good attendance.

The real problem is that the team has been horrible for the past 15 years. At their current location, the Sox were the first team in the city to draw 2 million (in 1983 and 1984). And during the years of promise during and after the World Series championship from 2005 to 2011, they were averaging 2.5 million, which is reasonable for a team in the smallest of the two-team towns (not counting the Bay Area). People will continue to make their way to South Armour Square as long as the team is good. This is true of most teams, especially in the AL Central. If the team sucks, fans won't go -- if the team is good, especially for a number of years, then the fans will go.

He almost makes Terry Bevington, the man who went to the mound and signaled for a reliever with no one warming up, seem competent. I would hope someone from the White sox tells him the fanbase reading this crap is not THAT dumb.

I absolutely cringe every time the man speaks. I would love to see the Sox surprise this season and play some level of interesting baseball for a few months, but if the season goes off the rails, one benefit is that clown hopefully being jettisoned to the moon.

Matt Thompson and Baily Horn have the exact same amount of control. Sure, Horn is a couple years older, but the Sox traded a guy who extremely likely to never make it for a guy that has a decent chance to be a part of the Sox bullpen the next half decade+, and has three options. I also don't really understand why some here are grouping Dom Fletcher into the "low upside situational player" pool. He looks like a 2 WAR floor player that can play above average OF defense all three OF positions.

They're self-scouting. They're getting what they can for players they feel will not be part of the future. People have been wanting them to do this for years.

I can't believe people are upset about losing Matt Thompson.

I’ve never seen a fan base that seems so happy at the thought of the team possibly moving out of the state. It’s so bizarre.

Does the current deal hurt the taxpayers of Illinois?

Fans of a team that just had an inside-the-park homerun shooting, have no room to talk about other teams’ fans.

I read this closely a few times

If George Bailey was a porn star

I wish they could dump Benintendi. I'd much rather have Fletcher/DeLoach/Colas fight it out for the two OF corner spots.

This is key. They bring in Maldonado - who Pedro clearly views as his juggernaut, .191 hitter and league-worst defensive stalwart - as the starter. After they brought in Max Stassi as the vet. At the same time, they have Korey Lee (who was bad last year, yes, and could use seasoning), Quero (hopefully the future), Hackenberg (who could be a good backup in the future, but definitely needs time in AAA) and Perez (yes, bad, but again, Maldonado). With Stassi around there was no need to give $4M to the second worst catcher in the league (Eric Haase barely edges him out).

Bro....I don't care about the record. Pedro said the vibe is different this year, he can feel it. I think we're good.

Colson was caught stealing after a HBP. Sounds like he beat the throw but his foot was off the bag at the time of the tag. Pitching and defense has been solid. LRJ made a rangy running catch at the wall, Burdick made a nice diving play in LF. Ramos made a low throw to first, but Sheets picked it well. Stassi hit a standup triple, and the Sox get on the board with a bunt to bring him in by none other than bunt king Remillard.

Moncada and Sheets have both pulled hard hit liners directly at Cronenworth. Berroa gave up a leadoff triple on a similarly pulled ball that got past Sheets into the corner, but stranded it with 2K's and a liner that Sheets did nab. Sounds like he was a bit wild, and he did walk one, but he also got a fair amount of swing and miss including the K of Cronenworth on a ball in the dirt. Don't recall a mention of velo.

Maybe Horn is that long term lefty piece in the pen to replace Bummer and Crochet (if he makes the switch to starting). Or maybe he isn't. But they turned a rental of 30yo journeyman RHRP Keynan Middleton into a RH starter who has Thompson's positives of youth (22yo) and workload (222.2 IP over the last two seasons) with better control (3.3 BB/9) and better results (3.58 ERA). Both are Rule 5 guys, but one seems closer to earning a roster spot. You can hold both and hope that Thompson makes a step this year that he hasn't made in the previous two...or you can cash in now if you think it's unlikely that he raises his value (to this team or another) before hitting minor league free agency. And in the meantime you have several years of a lefty with good stuff who you can keep or trade as you please. Horn finished 2021 at A+ with a WHIP approaching 2 and an ERA well over 5. He repeated the level the next year, and dominated with a .700 WHIP and 0 ER in 10 appearances before being promoted. His first time at AA, he struggled again with a high WHIP (but a reasonable 3.46 ERA). Repeating AA last season, he dominates again with a <1 WHIP and 2 ERA before another quick promotion. He struggles again with a high WHIP his first time in AAA...Sensing a pattern? I get that the Sox currently have Schrodinger's 40 man, where spots are either precious and limited or full of unsalvageable detritus who should be cut without hesitation, depending on what allows for the harshest judgement in the moment. But the Sox are apparently convinced by Horn's demonstrated capacity for adjustment and progression that Thompson hasn't flashed yet (and reasonably confident in their ability to backfill future needs for RHSP with guys like Juan Carela and the upcoming crop of draft arms). I'm not sure you get to accuse the move of being shortsighted if your "analysis" consists of "don't trade starters for relievers" or 23 < 26.

Well, I agree that the current location is certainly better than any suburban option. It would be as if they took one of the main negatives about the GRF location and then moved the team out to some suburban oasis where it would be much worse. If the South Loop effort dies, then their best option is to stay at 35th St and push for another round of renovations IMO. It has great transit options as you said. Arlington Heights, Naperville, or Tinley Park would be a terrible place for them to relocate to although they are all wonderful places to live. The NY and LA metro area populations are about double the size of Chicago metro and can easily support 2 teams in all four major American sports. As far as the Mets go, Cohen is planning to spend $8B to develop parking lots around Citi Field. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-mets-owner-steve-cohen-announces-8b-plan-to-develop-area-around-citi-field-in-queens/4840197/

Yeah, but have you ever been to Dodger Stadium? There is literally nothing except parking lots around Chavez Ravine, and the downtown LA area that is close to Dodger Stadium is pretty sketchy. Yet they lead both leagues in attendance year after year. Or Yankee Stadium -- the South Bronx is better now than it was 30 years (like a South Side stadium we all know and love), but would you want to hang out there after a game? Nope. Yet they are the top AL draw year after year. Citi Field in Queens, same thing. Yet the second team in NYC still consistently draws over 2.5 million. Sox Park may have its issues (the terrible initial suburban design of the park before the 2003 remodeling, of course, being the main problem). But it's still the best stadium for transit in the city by far, what with two L lines and a Metra station near it, and an expressway literally adjacent to it.

Coach speak is fine but Grifol has talked like a clueless and out of touch moron pretty much since day 1 here.

Because he's the manager of the team. When he's blantantly lying about this stuff, can you ever expect him to be truthful? There are ways around taking about these players without sounding nuts. . Why don't they sign Buehrle to eat some innings? He was pretty good 8 or 9 years ago?

Some things are so obvious, you either insult the intelligence of the people who pay to watch your team, or if you really believe it, you shouldn't be doing what you are doing. Of course this is the team that signed an aging catcher to be an example, and he got dinged for jaking it to first base the very first spring training game.

Jesus christ, the guy is 26 and still has no guarantee of making an mlb roster. That does not scream "decent chance to be part of the sox bullpen for the next half decade" unless it is meant as an insult to how terrible this team is. Is anyone a wee bit interested to see how Thompson, who was able to pitch 130 innings as a starter last year, could have seen his stuff play up in a reliever role (which Horn already had to transition to because he was a garbage starter in college?), where his fastball could be thrown harder and his two pitch arsenal was less of a vulnerability? Could that have made the guy "extremely likely to never make it) (which again we are discussing for a guy who was 22/23 in AA last year, vs a guy was a bad reliever in AAA as a 25 year old and was unlikely to make the team so was traded? I don't know. Makes you think!

Grifol on Grifol: “I’m an idiot when it comes to player evaluations.”

It’s like playing goldeneye back in the day and you have the a full magazine in your gun but you still reload it after one shot even though you don’t need to, because that’s what you are supposed to do

Meh. Matt Thompson is a phenomenal athlete, but with everyone the Sox traded for or drafted in the last two years, he had been passed. Maybe the Cubs unlock him, but he was destined to be a minor league reliever for the Sox. I regret losing Mena way more, but early on I am going to trust the new regime to keep the players they like.

Why is "Cubs Pitch Lab" capitalized as if it exists? Who exactly have the Cubs developed recently? Justin Steele....and...?

I know that it is only Spring Training, but I'm beginning to worry that this team is not very good.

The Sox would be going so far away from their base I don't see how Arlington makes any sense for them. Would obviously have to shed any "Southside" persona/vibe/branding as well.

They aren’t going to leave.

If Eloy runs hard to first that's 10 weeks on the IL usually!

This is precisely how they wound up having to pay mediocre vets $17 million per year. They gave away so many pieces to cover needs that by the end they had more needs than they could fill. Here Getz is not trying to find guys he can turn into a 23 year old starter, he’s giving away those 23 year olds to fill the 23rd and 24th slots on his roster. It is the exact opposite of what you’re saying. Getz is doing this because he thinks he knows these guys better than everyone else. Maybe that’s true and he has gotten two guys worth more than others think. Maybe he’s unloading Hahn’s trash and taking what he can get for them. That’s all plausible, but forgive me until I wait for evidence that these guys are massively smarter when they’re acquiring players who have little power or who walk the world. And yes, eventually this blows up in your face. These are the types of moves the Twins should be making to fill holes in the back side of their roster and maybe push them up to 92 wins rather than 89. These are not moves that prep for Trades. For the white Sox to get back more than they gave up in these two young pitchers, the guys who came back will need to be so good that the White Sox won’t want to trade them. Getz is paying over market value right now. If it works it is to his credit. If it doesn’t I hope we’ve learned enough not to discount it with “oh we didn’t give up that much.”

Hate this one. Yet again the Sox, who are hurting for starting pitchers, trade a young prospect for a marginal return. One platoon outfielder and now a low leverage reliever. In what world is that in the blueprints for a rebuilding team?? This organization is just run by clowns, starting at the very top with Bozo.

Jerry Reinsdorf has worked super hard to make sure people have this reaction. He’s been threatening to move the team literally my whole life, and I’m not supposed to get tired of the threat?

Just my opinion. I don't think anyone is "happy" but I think most are convinced (and I'm one of them) that JR's threat is pure unadulterated bullshit. Again just my opinion but I'm willing to call his bluff at this time. We are years away from the situation becoming critical so we'll see how it plays out. But I can't blame the fans, JR has the unadulterated gall to not be willing (at least yet) to pay one thin dime and then has the audacity just last week to blame the fan base for his incompetence, dysfunction and ineptness. He is a smart guy and I can't think he honestly believes the BS his spouts.