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Getting revenge by us not ending up with a world class stadium and possibly losing the team? Again, you guys care more about Jerry losing than the Sox winning.

Who are you talking to? You're not changing the world by asking your favorite team to leave over this. We've been bent over by billionaires our entire lives and the one time it'll benefit Sox fans is where they draw the line. You can't make this s%*# up.

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so.... The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth. Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

I'm simply amazed at how many Sox fans actually want this team to move to another city than even a single public dime go to what looks like a fantastic new park. This has to be the only fanbase where die hard fans are willing to tell their elected officials to let their team leave. This isn't Cubs fans saying this, it's die hard Sox fans. Are there other fan bases where the diehards are so outraged at the idea of any public funding for a new stadium to the point of hoping their team moves away? Because just about every other team gets a ton of public money for new stadiums or massive renovations. Are Brewers, Diamondbacks, Titans, etc. fans hoping their state/city tells the team to go "pound sand" and move away? What about the Cleveland Guardians and Browns fans? I could list most MLB and NFL teams. We Sox fans must be one of a kind. And to clarify, I don't want the city/state to just had over a $1B check to JR without him spending any of his own money. That's what negotiations are for. The whole issue is very nuanced too with the hotel tax money being used and the huge debt owed on Soldier Field that the city could get some relief from with this deal. Anyone who thinks that, if the Sox moved to Nashville, the hotel tax will be redirected to much-needed social programs is fooling themselves. It'll either just go away or used to go towards Bears stadium needs.

He deserves it! They could have been marketing this as a big positive, instead the only thing he's got is "Do this or the team may move and totally that won't be my fault".

2024 is a fresh start for the Chicago White Sox and Chicago White Sox Fans. Let's Do This!!! Probable Starting Pitchers: RHP #60 Jesse Chavez (Age 40) vs, LHP #36 Jordan Wicks (Age 24) Forecast Weather: Partly Cloudy, High 79 F, NNE Winds 7 MPH Draft Kings Odds: Chicago Cubs -155 vs. Chicago White Sox +130 https://www.mlb.com/gameday/white-sox-vs-cubs/2024/02/23/748341/preview "Hope springs eternal in the human breast; Man never is, but always To be blest. The soul, uneasy, and confin'd from home, Rests and expatiates in a life to come." - Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man

Oh my, somehow medical debt forgiveness is related to a ballpark. I hope all you loud mouth world savers are protesting at every major development city wide, and looking into the tax breaks and forgiveness/exemptions (which is the exact same thing) deeply. Then if the deal falls through, I'll cry and laugh as some huge tax break goes to some other developers to develop some crap none of you care about.

I'm a Sox fan, but I do not want any billionaires getting a dime of public money for stadiums. They can finance them themselves or go pound sand. I'd rather they move than make us pay for it. It's infuriating when companies do it, but its unconscionable when sports owners do it. GRF is still not paid off. No owner should get a dime of public money for a stadium from anyone, anywhere. Pritzker was just talking about eliminating $1B in medical debt for Illinoisians and that is a MUCH better use of that money.

That half inning went F.A.S.T.

I didn’t realize that this many Sox fans care more about Jerry losing than the organization actually winning.

And rents will be initially cheap, relatively speaking, meaning a restaurant scene can take hold for a decade plus similarly to Fulton market development. The south loop is one of the last underdeveloped areas in the city. I've said this 100 times but this would be a massive W for the city IF done right

A new stadium and a new ownership group aren’t mutually exclusive things. And while the Reinsdorf family will profit off a new stadium, it’s a new owner who will reap the long-term benefits from it. And those benefits would almost certainly result in greater payrolls and hopefully improved competitiveness. There is literally no downside to this other than Jerry “winning” and a bunch of tourists continuing to pay a hotel tax they currently pay today.

That was nice hustle by Colas. Maybe he's cured, and it was all the bad attitudes in the clubhouse, after all. God, Fletcher is short. Harry Chappas short. I would think that between 2 announcers, somebody could tell me who this guy without a name on his jersey is in the batter's box. Okay, I'm ready for DeJong's and Lopez's replacements to make them expendable. Jesse Chavez will tell his grandkids about this game. Tonight, he'll call them and tell them. I'm on the Bryan Ramos train. They should cut Gil Luna so they can just make him a roving instructor to teach all the pitchers in the organization that pick off move. Johan Dominguez should start opening day.

oscar wants the job

Uh, this team isn't built to overcome a one running deficit over 9 innings...

I like his eye. He took a few 0-2 pitches very well.

Lopez stat line all year on tv will read “attended Naperville Central HS”

I am team Lot 78

Its just the first inning of the first spring training game, but I'm getting flashbacks.

And the stability and longevity of the org in this city. I'm a white sox fan and my son will be, and I looked forward to very few things more than sharing those same experiences with my son that I shared with my dad. People have been so broken here they'd rather see the Sox playing in another city or a deadbeat location just because they hate Jerry. They hate him more than they'd like to see a dream-like scenario happen to a team they love... over what? Allocated tax dollars by a state and city that has pissed away tax dollars and endless things I didn't support. And mostly tourist tax dollars! And for what? So that plot of land can remained undeveloped until the city eventually grants some sweetheart deal to some other developer? Give me a break.

You know businesses pay tax, right? I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

Navy Pier draws 9 million visitors, so its not out of the question that a well done entertainment district could draw 5 with a guaranteed 2 million at least for baseball.

The sour ending to TA's run will fade over time, but I'll always remember the Field of Dreams walk-off. I had gone on leave for several months from my job to care for my dad at the time. He was paralyzed with ALS (Lou Gehrig's). He was still the same person mentally, just trapped in his body. Watching TV had become his main entertainment, so I can't overemphasize how much events like that meant to him. Everything about that game was perfect. I grew up in Iowa, close enough to that field to have taken a field trip there as a kid. The entire sky turned this incredible pink color that night, which I'd never seen it do before or since. It was surreal to see our Sox playing under the same sky we saw out the window of my parents' place. Even if they'd only blown the lead in the top of the 9th, I would've been very grateful for the memory. But to walk it off like that made it beyond special to us. Thanks TA.

They are actually super well understood. In general they’re not worth the money, especially if the entire stadium is publicly financed. They’re usually awful deals for taxpayers. This concept is a little different from a normal one since it’s truly a blighted area that may not otherwise be developed. Some money going to put a stadium here is justified. But not the government paying for the entire stadium and a large fraction of the rest if the development.

If this is a win win, if the city and state are going to come out of this well; then where is the detailed set of tax and economic analyses that support this? Show that to Sox fans and to taxpayers. Let the plan market itself if it’s such a win. What is Reinsdorf’s opening argument? “Give me all the money or your team walks”. First public interview, opening lines of the Crains article are a threat. If it’s a win-win, then you shouldn’t be threatening your fans and taxpayers. Again.

And if Jerry cares more about getting a deal that screws over the citizens of Illinois than he does about either a great stadium or making money, should white sox fans just give in and say that’s all we can do?

I think the line happens when the owner of the team craps on the fanbase to the public. At this point I feel like I don't have a team, because the White Sox don't want anything to do with us. @Lightly Folded may fall into some delusion where there's honor in cheering for that garbage organization but Jerry crossed a line.

Defense has been good. See, isn’t this more enjoyable than having sluggers

To be fair, so are the Sox.

i'm getting a little too excited about this prospect, Ray. It really would be a game changer for this franchise.

"Jesse Chavez was working on some things today"

I could be wrong, but this team does not seem to be built to be able to overcome a 6 run deficit in the 1st inning.

Just for fun, a nice quick 0-6 at the plate for the veteran defensive crew already

They were part of the Amazon HQ bid, then bid on the casino. There was also a pandemic in the middle of all that. I'd say they have pretty good reasons to not have started anything, but go on with your s%*# logic.

I am very pro new South Loop stadium, but goddamn do I not want JR to get one extra cent out of it. I know he will, but my loathe has only increased this week. It's a strange duality loving the team but hating the org and owner that runs it. I think the only way those of us that are for the new park will be totally happy is if JR & other investors foot the bill. And it's pretty much guaranteed that he won't. There will be negatives and downsides to a project of this scale. We just have to hope that this doesn't end up as another case of a billionaire owner getting even richer on the backs of working people.

I feel as though Jerry’s performance in Springfield and at Crain’s has pretty much let much of the oxygen out of our Sox fandom. The heavy cloud of a potential out of state move is a definite downer to the Sox psyche and I’m worried it’s only going to get worse. If Jerry’s aim was to distract us he succeeded but not towards the team but rather away from the them.

Can we all just agree that we really don't know why Tim tanked last year?

A lot more people would be upset in Chicago if the Bears moved to Nashville than the White Sox. Let Jerry have his son sell the White Sox to someone out of town for spite when he's dead. This clown actually said he can't compete in a division with Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, and Kansas City because his almost free rent ballpark with upkeep paid for doesn't provide him with enough revenue. And he can't sell the team because he made too much, he'll get hit with too big of a tax bill. I used to actually like the guy, and have stuck up for him plenty. He. Is. An. Asshole.

Caleb Williams...cap space...another high first round draft pick, etc. The future of the Bears at the moment looks light years brighter, at least on the surface. Sox fans have practically lost all hope.

The daily double of Pillar and DeJong is the stuff of legends.

Having lived in the South Loop when there was next to nothing as far as dining or nightlife, I believe it will be a draw, even on non game days. Printer's Row was the closest decent bar back then, and I had to trek to the northside or Wicker for better options most of the time. I don't think the detractors here really know just how few good options there are nearby.

I am going to say this in the nicest way possible. Especially for those who don't live in the actual city of Chicago, but instead live in the towns and suburbs around it, if your level of outrage is really this high for what is being asked for in this project, you probably have no idea what is going on in your own towns on a day to day basis. Really try to get involved in some of your local boards and the like if possible. I spent 12 years on my towns planning commission. This is really where you learn how things work, and you also have a real chance to make change. Having been on the periphery for about 90% progress in an Amazon project right here in my own home town, there is so much detail that is really not being understood here. We negotiated tax breaks, job training funds, TIF districts, and even a moving of county and municipal limits so that the site would be entitled to extensions and connections to the municipal water and sewer systems as a part of the deal. All for a deal that failed when Amazon shut down a bunch of similar projects all over the country because of "cost cutting". I have no problem thinking some of you would continue to be outraged here, but this stuff is not unusual, and the misunderstandings of pieces of these types of projects are fixable.

Especially given the proximity to Michigan Ave and the loop which draws a ton of tourist foot traffic. You'd basically be expanding the area.

f*** the White Sox

I didn't realize Draft Kings would have odds on a spring training baseball game......1-800-GAMBLER

...you can gamble on Spring Training games? That just seems silly.

No matter how well TA does in Miami, and I hope he does well, it was the right decision to part company with him. The relationship between TA and the White Sox was clearly not working anymore and he had gone stale. If he had stayed then a marginally better season was probably all we would have got, hopefully a fresh environment will spark an upturn in his form. From a White Sox point of view it was probably best to cut ties and rebuild a new clubhouse atmosphere without his presence even if he wasn't the cause of all the bad clubhouse rumours recently. I know the 2b SS options this season are hardly inspiring but this was going to be a write off season no matter what.

First time posting in a long time because this drama has been the first time I have given the Sox more than two seconds of thought in years. JR is asking for lots of money, but the debate is missing the point. I have been mostly negative on his proposal once the ask came out, but with more thought, I think it really depends on how its all structured. Right now the ISFA has a ton of debt, mostly from Soldier Field. It is being paid off by the hotel tax. Everyone knows that. But the important distinction is that the city pre-pays the payment and then earns back the amount from the tax. In years when the hotel tax is less than the payment, the city government is stuck paying for it. Or, what has often happened, is that the city pays just the interest or refinances the bonds to lower the current payment so the current administration doesn't have to deal with it, leaving it to future city councils to deal with. That is how we end up in a situation where almost none of the principal of the Soldier Field deal has been paid off. With this new deal, it seems like JR wants to tap into existing TIF money for the area for infrastructure. That, to me, makes complete sense. Its basically what it was made for and makes sense from a common sense point of view. The city is basically paying for the infrastructure up front in exchange for future payments once the infrastructure is paid off. Its a good way to build up an area like the 78. On top of that, JR wants the city to pay for the stadium. That seems outrageous, but it depends. Technically, it could just be a way to tap into the city's ability to get better rates on debt. If that's all it was, I really don't think people could be upset. But the key point is how it is paid back, and specifically, how much is actually expected to be paid back by the business. Its been said he wants the hotel tax to cover it, but right now, that tax can't even cover the smaller amount of Soldier Field payments. So there would likely be shortfalls. So the question is, who covers the difference? If its the Sox, then its really not a terrible deal. There are no new taxes, the city pays for infrastructure, and ends up not spending any Chicago taxpayer money on the stadium. But JR doesn't want to pay the difference that he knows will occur. So he wants to also tap into the sales tax in the 78 and put that towards the stadium payments. That is a new tax as much as he will want to say its not. The city would then be looking at reduced tax revenue for the area that will cost city spending. That is straight up a cost to the city, which is indirectly a tax on city taxpayers. So really, the question will come down to who is taking the risk in this proposal. If the Sox are responsible for the entirety of the bond payment and are only given the hotel tax and the sales tax in the 78, its probably at worst a slight negative financial impact for the city with a decent chance of being a pretty big positive financial impact. But that assumes the Sox are the thing pushing the 78 development towards completion. However, if the city is the one ultimately responsible for the bond payments or if we think the 78 will get developed anyway, this could be a massive financial boondoggle. The thing that throws a wrench into all of this is the Bears. It has been stated enough times here: the Bears and Sox are competing for these ISFA funds. As much as that makes it seem like taxpayers are about to get screwed, it could actually be a great thing for the city's negotiating leverage. If we can use that to get a scenario where the financial risk is less on the city, this could actually turn into a good project.

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