Jerry Move The Team or Sell

[soxfaninfl]

I don’t disagree but I also think this ‘sell or die’ mantra is a little disingenuous. I understand frustration but what are we trying to say here?

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, ThirdGen said:

As disturbing as a thread wishing death on another human being

This human being is an 87 year old billionaire who has lived one of the most luxurious of lives known to man. I don't wish death on him personally but i wouldnt give a s%*# if he choked on a pretzel tomorrow. In fact I would probably pop open a bottle of champagne. Call me a disturbed individual I don't care. 

[ThirdGen]

I don't own a baseball team, but if I did own a baseball team that had maybe 40% market share in a very large market, but that market was getting smaller and was not economically what it used to be, I think I would consider a move to get 100% market share in an area with growth and better overall economic prospects.  Particularly if I had a lease expiring in 6 years, very little chance of the government building me something new in the location of my choice, and other locations willing to help build a revenue generating baseball palace.  I actually think that decision is almost simple.  Think Brooklyn Dodgers.

[Quin]

Also, I'm gonna keep harping.

Mets fans were miserable a few years ago under the Wilpons. 

Steve Cohen (a much worse human being than Jerry) swoops in and now they're a lot more energized about the team. Yeah, it's not working right now, but they're amped to have an owner with fat stacks in his pockets.

The Clippers barely had a fanbase compared to the Lakers - let alone one so passionate that they could actually influence Hendriks (Soxtalk believe it or not) and Graveman (the Leury Legend game)* - then Ballmer comes to town and now the Clippers are a thing. They're getting new digs.

All it takes is the owner leaving (and lest everyone on this board remind you, Jerry is 87) and a new one stepping in.

*Obviously the contracts helped, but those guys were getting signed to some good contracts regardless.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, ThirdGen said:

He currently has the power to sell or not sell, absolutely, but if he passes that power obviously ceases to exist. And he probably won't sell for tax reasons. His son has shown great interest in baseball, he builds stadiums and has had ownership and control of a minor league team. And now executive experience in the NBA. No reason to believe he is beholden to a comment his father made.  If he inherits his father's stock, as Pete Townshend famously wrote, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Ideally I would like the team be sold to an outside mega billionaire or mega rich corporation of owners. In fact that is exactly what I suspect will happen. However having Michael Reinsdorf take over would be fine with me. I stated this in several other posts, wishing Jerry would walk away from the Sox and let his son Michael run the White Sox like he did the Bulls. At least if Michael took over the Sox in the next couple of years, at least we wouldn't be so frustrated waiting for the Jerry "Will" to be executed.

The fact is, when Michael took over the Bulls, the first thing he did was clean house in the front office of the horrible Gar/PAX combo. He did not promote within from the Bulls to select from the other losers in the Bulls organization. Instead he went outside the organization and recruited away Arturas Karnisovas the successful GM from the Denver Nuggets and made him the Executive VP of the Bulls. In the time Arturas was at Denver, he drafted the top 5 scorers and players from this year's Nugget's NBA championship team, including Nikola Jokic.

The fact Michael thinks the smart way and understands to go recruit the top executives from outside the organization, let's me believe he would try the same approach and go try to find an Andrew Freidman type young successful GM, like the Dodgers did stealing Friedman from the Tampa Bay Rays.     

Michael Reinsdorf hasn't won a NBA championship yet, but he is doing a much better job improving the Bulls than his loser dad did. H sure couldn't do any worse than his dad. Unfortunately for Michael Reinsdorf, he hasn't been as fortunate yet like his father was back in 1984, when he lucked out that the Portland Trailblazers made the all-time draft blunder and drafted Sam Bowie #2 instead of taking the greatest athlete of all-time in Michael Jordan. MJ is the only reason Jerry has 6 NBA championships and nothing to do with Jerry being some brilliant and genius owner.

 

[Highland]

I don't speculate about whether the team will be moved or sold because we fans have no influence. Neither is going to happen soon, and it is frustrating to think that nothing else substantial is going to occur. It is also frustrating that the FO doesn't seem realize that it put its reputation on the line with this rebuild.  We are reduced to hoping to win a bad division.

[palehose1]

Just some additional insight. I have a good friend who is on another Board with one of the White Sox Board members, they have a good relationship. The Sox Board member's comments to my friend:

- All of the Sox Board members roles are more "ceremonial" in nature- they do not make decisions and rarely give input on the direction of the team / strategy- they are essentially silent partners.

- Jerry has unilateral authority. He runs the Sox like a "business / Corporation"  and he is very mindful of providing profitable shareholder returns to his investor group.

- The Board is primarily composed of Jerry's long term friends and business associates- they are a very "mature" group of men.  There does not appear to be any formal Board succession plan.

- Jerry has first right of refusal on any shares being sold and has always purchased the shares for those who wanted to redeem. Although Jerry has increased his shares over the last 40 years he still does not have majority ownership. He will not sell the Sox in his lifetime because of the huge capital gains taxes that would need to be paid by his estate.

- Advancing age, the loss of Jerry's wife and son all have taken their toll on Jerry as one would expect. Perception is that he doesn't have the drive or "stomach" for replacing the leadership team, although rumors are Kenny is near retirement.

 

So essentially we are in a stalemate situation. No real surprise here, just extreme frustration.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, palehose1 said:

Just some additional insight. I have a good friend who is on another Board with one of the White Sox Board members, they have a good relationship. The Sox Board member's comments to my friend:

- All of the Sox Board members roles are more "ceremonial" in nature- they do not make decisions and rarely give input on the direction of the team / strategy- they are essentially silent partners.

- Jerry has unilateral authority. He runs the Sox like a "business / Corporation"  and he is very mindful of providing profitable shareholder returns to his investor group.

- The Board is primarily composed of Jerry's long term friends and business associates- they are a very "mature" group of men.  There does not appear to be any formal Board succession plan.

- Jerry has first right of refusal on any shares being sold and has always purchased the shares for those who wanted to redeem. Although Jerry has increased his shares over the last 40 years he still does not have majority ownership. He will not sell the Sox in his lifetime because of the huge capital gains taxes that would need to be paid by his estate.

- Advancing age, the loss of Jerry's wife and son all have taken their toll on Jerry as one would expect. Perception is that he doesn't have the drive or "stomach" for replacing the leadership team, although rumors are Kenny is near retirement.

 

So essentially we are in a stalemate situation. No real surprise here, just extreme frustration.

Echoes a lot of what I've been told and written about. Regarding Kenny different people have told me his deal is up either this year or next year then he is retiring. 

[GreenSox]

I don't want him moving the team.  I don't care if he sells.
What I want I want is a new Front Office.

[The Grinder]

Not to sound funny but either sell the team or sell the farm Jerry 

Of course Im kidding

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, ThirdGen said:

I don't own a baseball team, but if I did own a baseball team that had maybe 40% market share in a very large market, but that market was getting smaller and was not economically what it used to be, I think I would consider a move to get 100% market share in an area with growth and better overall economic prospects.  Particularly if I had a lease expiring in 6 years, very little chance of the government building me something new in the location of my choice, and other locations willing to help build a revenue generating baseball palace.  I actually think that decision is almost simple.  Think Brooklyn Dodgers.

All the good markets are gone. Vegas TV market is 40th, below Milwaukee, the lowest current MLB market. They won't have the same fanbase for an 81 game schedule as they do for the 10 Raiders games or 40 NHL games in a 1/3 smaller arena. This was pure and simple a scam for billionaires and bribed politicians to steal a half billion from taxpayers.

Nashville (27) and possibly Charlotte (21) are the final markets anyone wants, and both will either be pawned off for a billion plus expansion fee, with Baltimore possibly fleeing their dead metropolis for Nashville. 

Portland (22) is one of the few cities to repeatedly say go f*** yourself to billionaires looking for welfare handouts. Canada doesn't play the welfare game with billionaires for free stadiums, so Montreal's TV Corp will have to build their own stadium.

Either the territory is already controlled by another team, or nobody wants The MLB in Orlando (17), Sacramento (20), Raleigh-Durham (23), Indianapolis (25), Salt Lake City (29), San Antonio (31), Columbus (32), Hartford (34), Austin (35), Greenville-Spartanburg (37) and West Palm Beach (39).

There certainly are not any "Brooklyn Dodgers" scenarios, save if baseball expanded to Tokyo and perhaps a couple more Japanese cities, and possibly Mexico City might be worth something despite the lower per capita income.

[pcq]

8 hours ago, Rowand44 said:

Yikes.

Hope they have Astro turf with zippers around the infield part and bleacher seats that roll out and resemble Wrigley. 

[caulfield12]

San Antonio/Austin corridor is one of the most interesting with all the population movement from California to Texas and with numerous tech companies relocating there as well.

Three cities in Texas would start to get a bit crowded.

 

HIstorically, Portland and Salt Lake City have had very successful minor league operations in the 80's and 90's, at least one of those new/expansion cities is going to have to be in the west and either would seem a better option than LV.

Unless they count Austin as "west," which is perfectly plausible.

 

 

[JoshPR]

If The Sox move I have no reason to follow baseball anymore.... The Sox even tho bad is the only thing keeping me attached to Baseball. Funny when I was younger I couldn't imagine being without it. Now I just don't care enough. Maybe something is wrong with me, but I just don't feel that passion or fire anymore. Maybe it's what it's become. Maybe bad media. Whatever......

[Highland]

17 hours ago, palehose1 said:

Just some additional insight. I have a good friend who is on another Board with one of the White Sox Board members, they have a good relationship. The Sox Board member's comments to my friend:

- All of the Sox Board members roles are more "ceremonial" in nature- they do not make decisions and rarely give input on the direction of the team / strategy- they are essentially silent partners.

- Jerry has unilateral authority. He runs the Sox like a "business / Corporation"  and he is very mindful of providing profitable shareholder returns to his investor group.

- The Board is primarily composed of Jerry's long term friends and business associates- they are a very "mature" group of men.  There does not appear to be any formal Board succession plan.

- Jerry has first right of refusal on any shares being sold and has always purchased the shares for those who wanted to redeem. Although Jerry has increased his shares over the last 40 years he still does not have majority ownership. He will not sell the Sox in his lifetime because of the huge capital gains taxes that would need to be paid by his estate.

- Advancing age, the loss of Jerry's wife and son all have taken their toll on Jerry as one would expect. Perception is that he doesn't have the drive or "stomach" for replacing the leadership team, although rumors are Kenny is near retirement.

 

So essentially we are in a stalemate situation. No real surprise here, just extreme frustration.

The board members are all men in their 80's and 90's and haven't been active for years. In a Tribune article way back in 2013, it was stated the attitude was to let Jerry handle everything. If any of these guys cared at all, they still don't have the power to challenge Jerry.

For some time now, I feared that, as JR aged, he would get stuck in his ways, and again, there would be no one in the power to structure to question him. And if they are making money, why should they care?

Fans are left with a team that has no real leadership. Change is not in the cards. The team seems to be stuck in neutral.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

18 hours ago, ThirdGen said:

I don't own a baseball team, but if I did own a baseball team that had maybe 40% market share in a very large market, but that market was getting smaller and was not economically what it used to be, I think I would consider a move to get 100% market share in an area with growth and better overall economic prospects.  Particularly if I had a lease expiring in 6 years, very little chance of the government building me something new in the location of my choice, and other locations willing to help build a revenue generating baseball palace.  I actually think that decision is almost simple.  Think Brooklyn Dodgers.

The Brooklyn Dodgers? Is this a serious comment?

[Quin]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Brooklyn Dodgers? Is this a serious comment?

It's well known that a Robert Moses-like figure is currently overseeing Chicago urban planning.

Obviously.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I do think TV market size stops driving as much of this. I think baseball is eventually going to obtain all distribution rights and sell streaming services direct to consumer and via cable provider - eliminating local blackouts. This will eventually lead to a change in profit sharing and the way money is distributed between teams. 

That's probably still a decade+ off, but I think local TV market might play a smaller role than previously.

That said, sox draw 3 million fans when competitive, rank top 5-8 in merch sales and etc. They're not moving.

[Chicago White Sox]

Zero chance the Sox move out of Chicago.  The only question that matters at this time is when will the Reign of Rick Hahn end.  Dude may have the worst resume of any major league sports GM with 10+ years of experience.  I 100% get that Jerry is the root of the problem, but if they hired a qualified candidate from outside the organization (think Mike Chernoff), there would at least be some reason for hope.

[The Kids Can Play]

4 hours ago, JoshPR said:

If The Sox move I have no reason to follow baseball anymore.... The Sox even tho bad is the only thing keeping me attached to Baseball. Funny when I was younger I couldn't imagine being without it. Now I just don't care enough. Maybe something is wrong with me, but I just don't feel that passion or fire anymore. Maybe it's what it's become. Maybe bad media. Whatever......

There is nothing wrong with you. All of us long time die-hard fans are frustrated as ever, with the misguided direction of this team.

The POS loser owner and dysfunctional front office is what took your passion and excitement away for following your favorite baseball team.

Jerry is not moving the team. He lives in the Chicago suburbs and also in Arizona. I am quite certain at 87 years old, he has no desire to move to some other city. 

We are simply in a waiting game until Jerry moves on and the team is sold! 

[tray]

Moving the White Sox has always been a wet dream of cub fans..and a few trolls on this board. The White Sox fan base is strong, widespread, and unusually loyal. Stop with this nonsense. Sox fans are more loyal than Cub fans, many of whom emerged from parents who were fair weather fans and liked watching Harry Carey's hangover rants (after late night Banana banchis at Gene and Georgettis) and trite quips on free TV every afternoon.

Had the Sox won the series against the Dodgers, which basically came down to one foolish grooved fastball by ReyLo and Andrus running error..things would look brighter now. If the Sox ( Eloy, Robert, Vaughn, Burger) keep hitting HR, and multiple HR in games, they are going to start winning more. Usually when a team hits 4 bombs in a game, they win. Not sure why Frazier is still on the roster. Bring up Colas.

[RG23SoxFan]

20 minutes ago, tray said:

Moving the White Sox has always been a wet dream of cub fans..and a few trolls on this board. The White Sox fan base is strong, widespread, and unusually loyal. Stop with this nonsense. Sox fans are more loyal than Cub fans, many of whom emerged from parents who were fair weather fans and liked watching Harry Carey's hangover rants (after late night Banana banchis at Gene and Georgettis) and trite quips on free TV every afternoon.

Had the Sox won the series against the Dodgers, which basically came down to one foolish grooved fastball by ReyLo and Andrus running error..things would look brighter now. If the Sox ( Eloy, Robert, Vaughn, Burger) keep hitting HR, and multiple HR in games, they are going to start winning more. Usually when a team hits 4 bombs in a game, they win. Not sure why Frazier is still on the roster. Bring up Colas.

I like your optimism but find it doubtful that we will see anything different going forward this season than what we've already seen.  Last night was Lopez and Andrus and tonight it will be someone else.  They continue to do what bad/losing teams do and no reason to believe it is going to change.

[DFAthewave69420]

White Sox Twitter needs to organize a reverse boycott.  Pack the stadium and chants all game.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:23 AM, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Move the team? No one is asking for that…

Jerry will be dead soon. Unless anyone on this board is pushing 90, it’s a waiting game for this nightmare to end.

It's always been a waiting game for Sox fans so age doesn't have much to do with it when  your last 2 last World Series wins were separated by 88 years and 18 years since the last one. When they won in 2005 many many Sox fans that were much younger than 90 died and never saw a World Champion White Sox team.

Edited June 16, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[elrockinMT]

I just wish this sell the club , Jerry needs to die and move the team nonsense would just stop. At the end of the season 28 other teams can be called losers too. I don’t see Reinsdorf as the problem