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Awful? Lol I think you're the one who needs to relax and drop the hyperbole.

You absolutely should be taking information from multiple sources of data, yes. It's just a better idea when those data points are something the actor can actually control, which is why W/L record is largely ignored for pitchers. If you want to use it in conjunction with statistics, it's not my place to tell you that you can't, but I would at least suggest that it be weighted less than basically anything else you examine.

Because I can’t stand Renteria and his awful lineups, I put the Sox main regulars through a lineup optimizer online to see what their best line ups are using SLG % and wOBA The best lineup at 4.678 runs per game is Moncada, Anderson, Jay, Abreu, McCann, Eloy, Garcia, Castillo and Sanchez. Moncada and Anderson are pretty interchangeable as the computer really likes those two guys leading off. The computer doesn’t put speed in account but Id like to Anderson batting leadoff with Moncada behind him. This optimizer also gives you the 30 best lineups and the 30 worst lineups. In 16 of those 30 worst lineups, Anderson is batting seventh. Can someone explain to me why Anderson is batting seventh? If I can get these lineups on a free website, certainly the Sox have the same data.

Jon Jay Cleanup Hitter...

Ridiculous using your closer in 4 run game the day before a DH

Personally I would love to see Gio mix in his curve more. Not sure if he doesn’t trust it or what.

Next year, it has to be a 4 man bench by rule. 26 man roster, 13 pitcher max. I feel like people often forget that and the minimum batters faced for relievers next year.

This site has really regressed in civility. An opinion that is considered stupid to some is trolling.

Bailey saw he didn't make the Future Sox top 30 and figured he show you bastards.

They really aren't that important. You can't built a team for 24-26 now but you can build a team from the present through 2023. Sustained success is bullshit man. You are believing the smoke they are blowing up your ass. Win a damn World Series . That's the main goal . Have they put the resources into building sustained success ? Nope. Sustained success means you are relying on the farm to consistently produce talent. Do they have 75 high speed cameras throughout the system like the Astros ? Do they have an extra minor league team ? Do they consistently spend all their intl. bonus pool money ? Do they have a thorough analytics dept ? The Sox are still a huge question mark in terms of knowing what to do with young talent and a huge question mark on drafting and development. They have no idea how to approach free agents. Can you imagine the Sox blowing away a free agent pitcher the way the Astro's did Gerrit Cole after they traded for him ? Commit the funds and resources to develop young talent and I might believe you are serious about sustained success . Also if serious about contending why not have your best players prepared and on the field immediately in 2020 ? Why let the 2 of them miss a combined 40 games or so waiting for the correct date to be called up ? Does that sound like a team that wants to win? Isn't the point of spending big this off season to start the contention window next year ? If so why turn around and take your best players purposely out of the lineup ? The info about the Astro's is contained in a book titled The MVP Machine: How Baseball’s New Nonconformists Are Using Data to Build Better Players by The Ringer’s Ben Lindbergh and FiveThirtyEight’s Travis Sawchik. Here is a link to a review of it https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2019/6/12/18661954/astros-lindbergh-sawchik-mvp-machine

Imagine getting mad because people are using a more modern and accurate method when evaluating something.

Didn't want to start a new thread. Zack Godley got dfa'd by Arizona. He's a lot more interesting than Gohara

B.S. I'm not trolling anybody. I'm giving opinions, You might hate my political opinions as well if we were allowed to post them any more. Some people on this board will never accept the fact there are people with DIFFERERING OPINIONS. Guess what. I love Jose had a friend in town today from Chicago and he wasn;'t shocked by any of my Sox points. And he said everybody he knows likes Abreu. He is a HUGE Sox fan BTW.

I'll take B, Sir Madrigal 1 or 2?

You would probably complain he wasn't transparent enough with his plans then.

Not sure why Colome is pitching right now.

Jace is his own worst enemy, Nobody can hit his curve, but his walks will prevent him from becoming anything more than an average middle reliever.

Neither does Renteria.

Ricky Renteria is dogshit. That's why.

Yep he’s not letting it rip. There were some stats that came out today that showed he has a significant number of holes in his swing.

I really hope Hahn and Kenny have the cojones to fire the entire coaching staff after game 162. They really need new voices. Cooper just seems like he's cashing checks at this point.

Quality start when he doesn't have his good stuff...I'll take it.

Yeah. Ricky's not a 100% moron, only 90%. He does have his moments of brilliance, though few and far between.

Make it a show me pitch. He’s getting too predictable.

You are incorrect, I watch Hendricks for the cubs throw changeup after changeup with no success from the batter.

Just because a team sucks doesn't mean you're going to beat them by 5+ runs every game especially when the Sox best hitter is out and the Sox aren't any good to begin with

I truly hope Eloy has the fire to work on his terrible Defensive skills this offseason. Right now, he's RH Palka. That's not good.

They ain't losing chief.

Line drive in the box score.

Time to destroy this tigers bullpen

I said this a few weeks ago, but I have no idea how his shoulder will hold up all year. Seeing that arm swing in person was jarring.

Lucas should be dominating this awful lineup

Every game looks like it’s his first game out there

You're way too negative about everything.

Yeah, even with Tim and Eloy back... this has been a real awakening as to how much Moncada has meant to this offense. 1-5 in this lineup goes from being somewhat respectable to brutal.

Their lineup is just awful without Moncada.

I don't want to fight. However, your basic premise is something very very rudimentary. Everybody has known for years, decades that a pitcher can't completely control W/L record, yet it was perhaps THE most important factor in a pitching winning Cy Young (prior to the emergence of closers). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce some pitchers have very tough luck in trying to rack up wins, instead get no decisions. Yet again ... forever it was THE bench mark for starters along with ERA of course. Bruce Sutter won Cy Young in 1979. Before that ... all W/L and ERA. McCormick 22-10, 2.85; Gibson 22-9, 1.12; Seaver 25-7, 2.21; Gibson 23-7, 3.12; Fergie 24-13, 2.77; Carlton 27-10, 1.98; Seaver 19-10, 2.08; Marshall 15.21 withi 21 saves, 2.42; Seaver 22-9, 2.38; Jones 22-14, 2.74; Carlton 23-10, 2.64; Gaylord Perry 21-6, 2.73; then Sutter. Then after Sutter and 37 saves it was all W/L and era cept for relievers: carlton 24-9, 2.34; Fernando V 13-7, 2.48 (strike); Carlton 23-11, 3.11; John Denny 19-6, 2.37; Sutcliffe 16-1, 2.69; Gooden 24-4, 1.53; Mike Scott 18-10, 2.22; Bedrosian 40 saves; Hershiser 23-8, 2.26; Davis 44 saves; Drabek 22-6, 2.76; Glavine 20-11, 2.55; Maddux the next four years all based on wins and era; Smoltz 24-8, 2.94; Pedro 17-8 1.90; Glavine 20-6, 2.47; Randy Johnson next four years all wins/losses and era based; gagne 55 saves in 2003; then clemens, carpenter, webb, peavy, lincecum twice in a row; halladay, kershaw, dickey, kershaw twice in a row; arrieta, scherzer twice all based on WL and era. last year deGrom more on the advanced stats. 10-9, 1.70 I can do the AL pitchers next if you wish. Even last year's snell at 21-5, 1.89 was traditional W/L and era. In 2010, felix hernandez won 13 and lost 12 so that was ignored cause of his era and strikeouts and he won it; Aside from that, all W/L and ERA cept for Eck's 51 saves; willie hernandez's 32 saves; rollie fingers 28 and sparky lyle's 26. Aside from relievers and Felix hernandez, all cy Young winners based on W/L, ERA. Seems to me we now know why Stoney mentions wins and losses so much, folks.

I've already accepted the fact he is what he is in that perspective. Kid is never going to be patient. If he continues to hit for a high average however, I'm cool with it. He holds enough value in his bat alone to be a positive player. It's the glove I question.

Hate the way we approach hitting.. its trash and we have lots of guys like that. If they don't learn.. will never be any good.

I wish Hahn would STFU until they actually sign someone this offseason.

Just saw the new rule.

If we can find that left hand right fielder...Garcia is an ideal backup. Until we find that player Garcia is probably the everyday right fielder.

It’s all about the Benyamins!

Eloy has come up and shown he will hit 30+ HR every year Moncada's having a GREAT year Anderson's year at the plate has been much better than anyone could've expected Robert's a tear on the farm Madrigal's been very good since April Giolito's been wonderful Lopez has had 4-5 consecutive good or better starts and yet people are upset with the year, like they expected a pennant. I agree with you. Wins are a bonus!

I don't run with this excuse as I said above, but note that the White Sox's attendance has substantially improved this year. Their braggadocio during the offseason about how they were going to add a middle of the order bat put them in the news and likely sold some season tickets. That was one potential motivation to publicly be deceptive.

I don’t think it was a con per se, but they weren’t going to pay the going rate IMO. I think they were very comfortable finishing in second. They didn’t he try for Harper, even though fake insider bucket of suck said they loved their position with him. The Nate Jones trade was very telling. The Rangers and Cubs are acquiring bonus money. The Sox would rather save $3 million than perhaps sign a player or players that may help them some day. The bottom line is all that really matters no matter how much White Sox owners have seen their net worth rise through the years.

No I think the FO is a bunch of clowns. I think they put a $175 million offer on the table in January and leaked it to the press thinking that it was an overwhelming offer and that no one else was going to be anywhere close to that, and that after that point they thought they were bidding against themselves and doing Machado's side a favor. I think they put like a $200 million offer on the table just before Soxtalk and thought they were going to get it done with that offer, which is why we had so many leaks of something happening right beforehand. When they got up to $250 million they thought they were bidding against themselves, they were told another team had a higher offer and didn't believe it, and then threw a temper tantrum in the press when someone actually put a fair, $300 million offer on the table. I think they genuinely thought "$175 million offered" would scare away other teams, when it did the exact opposite. I think they have no idea how to value players, overall.

The fact that anyone could think those options would be picked up is equally incredible.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football. I know he will fall on his ass. If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign. Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent". They really need new ownership.

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time.