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Here comes NBC Sports. Listen Ryan , I have seen the Sox play chess before and they really suck at chess.

Absolutely amazing to see people get offended or upset at a team for considering the thoughts and feelings of a group of people whom we committed genocide against; as if these people have some innate attachment to the name Cleveland "Indians." Good on Cleveland; there's literally no reason to have an offensive team name; people who take pride in the offensive team name just confuse me.

Im not sure you are aware but the Native Americans actually never lived in India.

Yeah, some people have invested so much of their lives in certain beliefs, when truth is presented, they become defensive of those beliefs because they can't be wrong, otherwise it was all a waste. I got out of that way of thinking a long time ago thankfully.

So death marches, deliberate infection of disease, scalp bounties, systematic forced sterilization and removal from land doesn’t equate to genocide to you. Got. I guess this your little way of making America great again

Two great reads for someone who actually wants to learn about what our ancestors did and the genocide they participated in : "Not Genocide" just the systematic destruction of an entire group of people and their culture.

LOL we just paid kelvin herrera 8 million to ride a horse all year and it ...didn't matter at all? But the thought of Liam Hendriks at $10 million for year 3? THE HORROR. Again, relievers are so expensive in arb. $10 mill is less than we paid Colome last year who was still on his rookie deal.

You're white I'm guessing; which literally explains this. It's very easy to not be offended when you've been the one committing atrocities for the duration of mankind. I know, because nothing offends me, because I've had a leg up in pretty much every aspect of life. And again, you are acting offended that they're changing the team name when you have NO CONNECTION to the team or the name. That makes you significantly more "soft" than people who feel they are being exploited by professional organizations who don't care one bit about educating fans on Native History; because they actually have skin in the game. You have none, yet here you are getting outraged that other people have feelings that aren't the same as yours. Amazing you don't see the irony in that.

Q: Do the sox have too much pitching?

Who thinks Cohen will instruct Alderson to do whatever it takes financially to win the bidding just to pay JR back for trying to block him from owning the Mets? (Raises hand)

You literally argued that the murder of 95% of the native population over the course of just three generations wasn't genocide. Your exact words were: (Source: https://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/variables/smallpox.html#:~:text=Within just a few generations,the population of the Americas.) "although id argue genocide is probably a stretch" Why, because they didn't kill 100% of them. Amazing stuff. The expert on native history is arguing that "Indians" isn't offensive and that genocide is a "stretch."

Current needs: Closer Legitimate Starting RF Legitimate Starting LF (Eloy to DH) Legitimate Backup Catcher Legitimate 21st Century Manager New Owner Current wants: 1 or 2 more starters

One that is rapidly leaving you behind.

Man, the point is going right over your head. You're upset that natives have an opinion on something that directly impacts them. It bothers you so much so that you're here arguing against their opinion, telling them to be stronger lol. Yet, you're offended by the same thing and it has no direct impact on your life. Truly amazing.

Im worried we're gonna be in for a bit of a rude awakening next year when we have to play teams that don't just play in the central.

PC is ruining this country! Smh

Yes. I would add: - Back-end/reclamation starter (Q, Kluber, Paxton, Walker, etc) - A closer (Hendriks, Colome, Hand, etc) - Another reliever (Bradley, McGee) - Left-handed bat (LaStella, Miller, etc) - Backup catcher (one that is more defensive oriented)

"I always think there's a vocal minority who basically needs to have a view to sound smart, and most of the time they're pretty fucking stupid. to be honest with you. Ya know the loudest people are never the smartest people, um, the ones that want to be heard because they want attention for some other set of reasons that come from their own psychology and insecurity. I think that anybody who spends the time to learn about anything always comes off as pretty moderate and boring because they tend to come to a balanced perspective. the more you learn, the more confusing things are so that the more, almost more conservative in the presentation of the facts one is. its when your just starting to learn about something and you think you can be heard that you start to spout off and frankly to the people who know more ... you sound like a dumbass" - Chamath Palihapitiya Again, I'll leave that there for ChiSox1917... it seems incredibly odd that you are so triggered by this whole conversation and think almost the whole thread can be summarized by this quote. On a separate note, I may use this as my "footer" for my profile. And may go post this in Slam under Covid and Election topics. I may even get it tattooed on my ass as a reminder. This is yogi berra type knowledge and insight. so simple, yet so profound.

You know, we could teach about their cultures and past in SCHOOL and not through offensive caricatures that are sold for a profit by teams that aren't even affiliated with the community? I know that's a crazy concept to you.

Uh, duh, yes. We should identify them by their OWN tribal and national identities. They aren't Indians or native Americans first. They are Pottawatomie, they are Iroquois, they are Hopi, they are Creeks, etc. This goes to EXACTLY what I am talking about when I talk about stripping them of their own identities and branding them in our own image. And hell yes, this was a genocide. It was organized and government sanctioned killings and removals repeated many times over centuries of time, and a lot of the more subtle policies are still in place to this day.

At the bare minimum it's helped me identify which posters I can safely add to the ignore list.

It seems like a way better life than reflexively jumping to defend terminology soaked in ignorance, racisms, and genocide.

You're clearly offended; you're here in this thread arguing against a decision that impacts your life nilch. You're so offended you felt the need to seek out a study that agreed with you. You're arguing with posters whose opinion is "good with me, I got no skin in the game and might as well be respectful with something that means nothing to me." Racist lolololol

In regards to the name change ... It's quite easy for people to show their colors when these type of topics emerge. Generally you see one sentence responses from those who are against it. Name change: "what's next giving away participation trophies to all teams too?" It's a canned, quick response with little thought of considering all angles because those people can't actually go through the analysis and consider all people's feelings. Why? Cause 'Murica! The truth is somewhere in the middle usually & in this case can it be construed as offensive? If the answer is yes, and quite easily yes, then just pick one of the 170,000 other words at your disposal. It's really not a big deal. It's 2021 (almost) -- i can see how it's offensive for a bunch of non Native Americans to sit around doing the "chop" chant at a baseball game. If you can't see that, then you need to do a better job reading and studying history of America. This isn't white guilt or that it openly offends me, it's just there are 170k other words, just pick a different one. Does picking a new team name fix anything? no. But it does bring attention to the subject which maybe helps people become educated on a subject matter they weren't previously educated on. https://www.history.com/topics/native-american-history/native-american-timeline Just imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. we were in America, and someone else came in and just started killing/going to war with you to conquer the land you lived on -- until basically there was nothing left. And then we were put on reservations and slowly rotted becoming just a shell of our former ancestors. Then the people who did this to you made a baseball team with a cartoon of your faces and named their team The Cleveland Anglos and did chants while they sat around and ate hot dogs while there was no apparent connection to why they had to be called the Cleveland Anglos. ... Again, pick one of the other 170,000 words.

@RagahRagah I'm going to respond to your angry post in hopes of helping you understand. This will be the last time, as I prefer to go back and forth about the actual reason I post (the sox), not to calm you down. 1. Im not arguing with people, im having conversations about a game i love with fans who share a common cause. Im not trying to change opinions, im expressing mine. I post when I have a differing view more than when I agree which is natural. 2. Serious things in my life are my family, career, school, economics, and a fight for equality. Serious is not someone thinking Adam Eaton is Willie Mays. Im not doing it for shits and giggles, I post for fun and to take my mind off the real world - when the sox do something stupid I post to let off fan emotions (which are never all that serious but are a great way to get distracted from the real world for a minute.) Have i had bad days in my life that have trickled online? Im Sure, im human. Is this ever serious though? No, and if you think it is then I either envy your position in life, or you're just taking this way to personal. Lastly, do I care if im wrong or if someone calls me a name? No... because none of this is important. Its a game and a hobby. Take a step back. Now make a post so I can throw another laughing emoji on it. Oh and Adam eaton still sucks, I won't be happy with the signing ever, and that's because I'm not outcome driven, im process driven. Besides what grown man calls himself spanky?

Considering they're talking about clothes and not players, yes. Notice how no one really gets mad about Reds or Red Sox. Because, again, color and article of clothing. People aren't neutron-star dense and are able to differentiate between ethnicities and literal colors that exist on the visible light spectrum.

The Cleveland Politically Correct Baseball Team

It seems like you're the one that's the most "hypersensitive" here. For some reason you're offended. I can't fathom why.

Yeah, I don't get why the Robertson contract gets lumped in with LaRoche, Samardzija type acquisitions. Sure, we ended up trading him, but over the course of the contract, he pitched exactly as expected, if not better. Did the one game against the Royals just absolutely destroy fan perception?

And you have a whitewashed Americanized view of history.

I admittedly wasn't a big reader when I was a kid (meaning I couldn't read a book if my life depended on it). When I hit my twenties, I actually read the first book I recommended above and I became infatuated with not just Native history, but with non-fiction tales that exposed the lies sold to us in our broken educational system. Today I focus more on economics and finance, and the exploitation of all of us - by a very select few - but I'll never forget the book that made me realize that I had been sold a crock of shit in school as a child; no different than how North Korea teach propagated history to their citizens. IDK if you haven't figured it out yet, but citing your middle school and elementary school history classes as your basis of expertise has already told on yourself without anyone ever having to respond.

Pal, I thought you were a historian taught about Native history: https://www.history.com/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets#:~:text=An illustration of Ottawa Chief,infecting blankets after peace talks. "An illustration of Ottawa Chief, Pontiac confronting Colonel Henry Bouquet who authorized his officers to spread smallpox amongst native Americans by deliberately infecting blankets after peace talks" The disease spread was a deliberate weapon. I'm sure you knew that though; "just a couple bad apples" lol.

Jerry isn’t going to pay Bauer. He also isn’t going to pay Springer. Hendriks is the next best option. I would rather overpay him than have that money continue to sit in Jerry’s wallet.

So dumb lolll. I love people that are unrelated to the "issue" tell everyone how we should feel about the issue. I remember when the Redskins were changing their name there was a poll specifially asking native americans if they found it offensive and wanted a name change.. Some insanely high number like 80-90% (don't remember exact) said "No, and that they didn't find it offensive or wanted a change"... Our world sucks.

Am I the only one going to say "Steamers"?? Fine...I'll say it. STEAMERS.

Meet bigger hammer. Here's a letter from the National Congress of American Indians. Link to letter with signees, including additional context.

Actual Native Americans have never had a problem with any of these team names. In fact, many have indicated that they feel honored by them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html This has nothing to do with appeasing Native Americans and everything to do with appeasing silly white liberals.

Maybe if you knew someone who was hurt by a drunk driver or family that was devastated by it, you might have some perspective. This guy screwed up his car thank God, and not some innocent person. But give him a pass. We can’t tie up the courts with something so trivial. The fact that repeat offenders get a slap on the wrist shows why this problem will never go away.

Eventually, will the "WHITE Sox" even be acceptable?

The difference is bmags can articulate his position in a way where when people are finished reading it, no one thinks “God what a colossal prick this guy is.”

I haven't been paying attention to this offseason so I am late but I just want to be on record saying I hate this trade and believe most Sox fans will come to agree in the coming years.

I hope they go with the Martians, and in 100 years are forced to change their name again when concerned alien rights groups start petitions saying the name is offensive to extraterrestrial life forms

Even if you don't find the name itself offensive there is no denying the racist intent behind the imagery they chose to associate with it. As offensive as the most recent Chief Wahoo was it was actually significantly worse in the first half of the 1900s. They can't claim to be "honoring" anyone when they use those cartoons as part of marketing.

After reading the athletic piece last year, I'd say the Blackhawks should probably change the name. They profit off a name that most fans don't even know the true meaning behind. Teams shouldn't profit off people we tried to wipe off the face of the earth.

I'm not sure he's ever posted something that wasn't sarcasm, spam or attention-grabbing. Whether it's a shtick or a coincidence, the board would probably be better off without him

I'm never surprised when I see a terrible take and then I look at the name. Is this a shtick or that a coincidence?

I suppose I could be ignorant, but I just don't understand what the big deal is. Changing the name of a team isn't going to educate people on the history of a race of people or deceptions about them. I don't see how changing a name solves anything other than fueling turmoil over identity politics. Is the name actually offensive? How?

Spiders sounds too much like a AAA team name. A more appropriate name for them would be the Cleveland Pennies.