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It is funny watching how the padres and Phillies come off a very disappointing season and both decided to keep spending to overcome, knowing regression would likely be positive. They then made NLCS and more. But since JR despises both owners for paying players what they believe they are worth he will instead cut payroll to achieve his number one goal: not giving labor too much wealth.

The needs are petty obvious. Let’s see them actually execute…while slashing payroll and spending all of $15M…

Is this the 2022 version of the Sox are interested in players like Semien and Robbie Ray?

I think you’d have to be crazy to trade Moncada right now. At least give him a chance of Grifol and see what you got. He’s worth his salary next year if he’s back to being a 3 to 4 win player.

How does moving Giolito help if you’re trying to compete? Who can they sign for less money that has more upside? The answer is no one. If you trade Gio, you need to replace him. That continues to make no sense.

Rub…One…Out…Dude. Your view of Robert is ridiculous. He had a 124 wRC+ through August. He then posted a -90 wRC+ in September by playing through a hand injury when any other organization would have had him on the IL. As for his defense, I don’t buy for a second that he’s suddenly a bad defender in CF. He dealt with multiple issues last year and it took a toll on his game. They need to find a way to keep him healthy for the bulk of the season and hopefully having a full off-season to actually work with him will allow that to finally happen. Moncada is going to rebound significantly with La Russa gone. Eloy should be able to play more if he DHs on a regular basis. Vaughn won’t wear down like he did this year if he doesn’t play the outfield. Anderson hopefully won’t miss a massive chunk of the season and his off the field bullshit should finally be in the past. Even if Grandal is cooked, the retuning positional group will much better than they were in 2022. On the pitching side, Giolito will likely be better if he can fix his mechanics over the off-season and ultimately his four seamer & slider. Kopech will better with a healthier knee and an arm that has fully recovered from a massive innings increase. I also don’t see why Cease is expected to regress. I think overall our four core starters will give us more in 2023 than they did in 2022 and that’s assuming continued age / health regression with Lynn. Is this a playoff team in its current form? Depends on how much better the core is under Grifol vs. La Russa and whether Hahn is finally able to address our couple major holes, but it’s not nearly as dire as you’re making it out to be.

Donaldson is garbage, aim higher. Not one locker room benefited from that guy being there, nobody likes him

Teams like the Phillies & Jays are able to give a $100M+ contract every winter when they are going for it. Meanwhile, Jerry is tapped out and on the brink of bankruptcy after signing a couple high paid relievers.

Most Hard-Hit Groundouts Facing Shift, 2020–22 (90+ MPH) Matt Olson, Braves 147 Yordan Alvarez, Astros 122 Max Kepler, Twins 121 Kyle Tucker, Astros 114 Corey Seager, Rangers 113 https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/11/21/banning-infield-shifts-impact

I will be honest, this makes me feel a whole lot better about my POV on 2023.

And Moncada going from subpar 2B to stellar 3B spared them from the 3B black hole lasting nearly as long.

Good point. I just don’t think they’re trading for a starting pitcher, multiple outfielders and a second baseman. They’ll have to spend money

Ah, yes. "Intensity" here means "asshole."

I'd consider that deal. Donaldson is just the kind of firebrand the Sox need to help create a more intense tone to the lethargy. If there are concerns about how he would relate to TA, send TA packing too. Dodgers could use him and have several young fireballers who appear MLB ready (not to mention Lux, Outman and Busch and others). This team needs to change its course beginning with adding guys with intensity and a sense of urgency and moving the walking soap operas.

He also suggested we were 5th likely to sign Judge or something like that….so yeah…wish I could believe something the dude says but at this point he’s no better than the foodies

There weren't any overpriced bullpen pitchers available that day so Hahn said WTF.

Mediocre player. Peeked in 2019. White Sox seem attracted to players who have peeked, and we are back to the 2009-2017 model of hoping to get numbers out of guys that are probably not possible. Kepler isn’t projected to hit, so I’m sure the White Sox history of mediocre coaching will solve that. Mediocre, players, mediocre coaches, mediocre front office. Max Kepler is a move that would show why they Sox are usually mired in mediocrity.

If they’re going to give up some okay prospects for a hitter, this would make a lot more sense than Kolten Wong, to me.

This team needs to stop giving away young prospects if all they are getting is questionable mediocrity in return. f*** it. Lets stop doing these same things and expecting different results. *shouts at clouds *

@Pal This the name you heard?

I approve of signing Clevinger, stating that right now. Let it be on the record.

And this is what I mean when I say you’re making the really unlikely assumption that somehow everything will go right next year. Everyone succeeds, no one has a bad year, no one gets hurt, and maybe they catch Cleveland as long as they get worse next year. Not impossible, but way more unlikely than you want to admit.

I think your CPU may have finally malfunctioned. You said those two plus Cueto offset all our underperformance last year, which is an absolutely absurd take. I focused on our positional group because that is where the bulk of underperformance happened. If you want to include Abreu that’s fine, but his two extra wins would be more than offset by Sheets & Engel coming in at 0.0 WAR vs. the 2.3 ZiPS had projected for them. No matter how you slice this, the offense underachieved by a good 10 wins or more. As for the pitching, yes Cease outperformed his ZiPS projection by 1.4 wins. Add Ceuto’s 2.4 wins vs. a replacement player and we’re at 3.8 wins. Meanwhile, Lynn, Giolito, & Kopech were projected for 8.1 WAR and only put up 4.7, which is a 3.4 delta. So net on net, we’re nearly even there and we haven’t even accounted for Keuchel projected to be a 1.8 win pitcher getting DFAed after putting -0.3 WAR through eight starts. Overall, I think it’s fair to say the rotation was slightly below expectations even with Cueto and VV/Davis pitching well in their roles. To summarize, this team massively underperformed last year and I don’t know how any sentient life form could argue otherwise. I mean, there isn’t anything to even debate here when the numbers are so clear cut.

Too soon

No, But Abreu putting up 4 wins rather than the projected 1.9, Cease putting up 4.4 rather than 3.2, Cueto putting up 2.3 rather than 0, Kimbrel putting up 0 rather than being a part of the bullpen makes up a whole lot of that ground. When you count only the guys who underperformed and then ignore the guys who over performed you miss the important part of the story. And lumping Leury into that to make the difference look bigger when anyone else in the league would have benched him? Hilarity.

The idea that essentially one seasons worth of good play equals nearly the entire rest of the franchise regressing last year is some funny math.

This team somehow managed to get an all star level 2 months from Elvis Andrus and a borderline all star 4 months out of Johnny Cueto and a solid season out of Seby Zavala, which basically offset nearly all the injuries on the roster, and somehow people still say "Everything went wrong." Want an "Everything went wrong"? Imagine that team with Cueto and Andrus not available. Not hard to believe, Andrus will never put up that 2 month stretch again and Cueto won't be available 2 days before spring training ends this year. Or imagine all that, and at the same time Abreu hurt and missing - which is exactly where they are right now. It's not insurmountable, but this is a gigantic hill.

LaRussa’s Lounge

If JR can honestly sit there and say “I’m now giving you your chance” while ignoring the fact that his dipshit choice to hire TLR burned 2 prime years of “the window,” and likely set more than a few players back in their development, then maybe this is happening, but I don’t think JR is that dumb. He’s just stubborn and doesn’t like the notion that spending money is a must for almost every team if they want to win. There are a few exceptions, and he’s trying to prove that the white Sox can be an exception, too.

Yuck

I’m sure Jerry’s arrogant prick ass absolutely makes decisions like that.

And yet...

Former Reds OF. Think of a more athletic Adolfo. Power and a gun for an arm but can’t hit.

Aquino and Outman, of course.

You do this same bit every year, claiming your pessimism is simply a “protection mechanism”, and then you still end up disappointed when the Sox ultimately underachieve. When will connect that dots on this?

Did you suggest he acquire Outman and Aquino?

@Balta1701 I agree with everything except I wouldn't call his (short) MLB stay a success. In fact I'll call it a disappointment and I can't even blame Tony. My memory may be spotty but I recall Tony trying to find good spots for him. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking 2nd shouldn't be a top priority, more of a focus on a lefty bat for the OF, pitching, and if something falls in place at 2nd go for it.

I don't expect bouncebacks from a lot of the underperformers. Robert I think he is what he is, he doesn't have enough plate discipline to go on much more than a 1 month hot streak here and there. His injury in 2021 sapped his elite speed and he's now a negative defender in CF. Soon there will be serious discussions about moving him to LF. I think Moncada could bounce back to 2021 levels because his LH swing was fucked this year and never really got right. Eloy could take a step if they play him at DH. Unless Giolito gets his heater back, I expect more of the same from him next year. Grandal is cooked I expect a similar season as 2022 from Lynn. Kopech could get better, if he remembers how to miss bats. If he's striking out less than a batter an inning in 2023 I expect him to be kinda bad tbh. Cease almost certainly won't be as good as he was in 2022. Every season is different, and as usual I'd expect gains in one area to be offset by negative regression in others.

25% increase in attendance and Jerry is going to cut payroll. Just a terrible businessman and horrible owner.

The schedule is going to be a little tougher. I still think they should win the division, but that starts with what they do this winter. The manager is an upgrade. I think it's a great start. Pedro is detail oriented. Tony let players cut corners and we all paid fot it. Hahn can't be worse than last off season, but he needs to shine. That may be a tall task. Only diehards were very upset with how the Rodon thing went last year with no QO. If the Sox fail and Abreu has a big season elsewhere, the rest of the fanbase is going to blow up. Rodon may be more valuable st this point, but Jose way more popular. I hope they realize they are playing with fire and actually upgrade the team, not just hope 5 or 6 guys can turn back the clock, and a few others do what they have never done.

Think of all the BS we've been told. They had their spokesman, Nightengale, tweet out last year they were looking at players like Semien and Ray. The Sox get Vasquez and Big Energy. This offseason they might trim payroll 8 figures? Sorry they aren't even trying.

2nd base specifically has only been an organizational black hole for almost 20 years now. ?

I didn't have a problem with the salary. The term was ridiculous for an over 30 bench player. What was funny is once Tony was out of the picture everyone figured out he shouldn't be playing. Hahn made the exact same mistake with Keppinger. If it was on Tony, if Joe Kelly was on Tony, if Vince Vasquez was on Tony, JR should give that money blown back to Hahn to use. If it was on Hahn, he should get a new GM

It's certainly not how teams in their supposed window, saying the goal is multiple championships usually operate. Hopefully it's some sort of smokescreen, because lowering the payroll and failing again will doom them. As shitty as this team was in so many ways, 2 million still showed up. They can't do the usual and blame the fans for not buying their shitty product.

If you work through the way it cascades, “I had to trade Hendriks so that I could afford Kolten Wong” really doesn’t give a lot of confidence in this season going well.

Mediocre is being kind.

I’ve always found Kepler extremely handsome. Maybe that gives us some Scotty Pods like luck.

I mean, that's kind of their job. If the GMs and their supporting staff around the league don't know what the Sox, and all the other clubs need, they're pretty awful at their job.

Tell us more in the name of giving. We will be thankful.

Anyone who gives Dombrowski "heat" for trading prospects to try to win the WS is unsmart.