Leaderboard

As the title suggests, it’s officially time to blow this team the f*** up. This group of players is an absolute joke and even if we somehow lucked our way into the playoffs (which won’t happen) this team would be as dangerous as a butter knife come October. In terms of production, our positional group is 28th in fWAR sitting at a cool 3.3. If you take out our superstar CF (3.3), our slap happy LF (0.8), and a 27 year old rookie DH (0.8), we’d have -1.6 fWAR. That’s fucking incredible. Tim Anderson has gone from being a legit superstar SS to one of the worst regulars in baseball. Dude is now 30 and 1 1/2 years from free agency with what appears to be serious personal issues to boot. Beyond that, the roster is filled with DHs who have stagnated or regressed offensively. Eloy has gone from a 144 wRC+ in 2022 to a 99 in 2023. The coaching staff can’t seem to figure how to get Vaughn above a 110ish level wRC+ despite him having the talent for more. Sheets has gotten 184 PAs and is putting up a 94 wRC+ while continuing to factor into the RF mix. After that you simply have a group old (Grandal), bad (Zavala), old/bad (Andrus), or chronically injured players (Moncada). 2B & RF continue to problem areas for us and this off-season we will enter no viable catching options. To say things are bleak is a massive fucking understatement. The pitching staff has been better, but is still below average (22nd in fWAR at 5.8) and is filled with veterans with minimal control. Giolito (1.7) & Clevinger (0.7) are both free agents after the year and Lynn (0.8) only has a $19M team option remaining. What is even more problematic though is that Cease & Kopech are only controllable through 2025. The former is now represented by Boras, which means he is as good as gone the day he hits free agency. The ladder has been a massive disappointment and not even worthy of a potential extension at this point. Behind them we have absolutely nothing at AAA because Hahn has done such a bang up job creating a pipeline of talent. As for the bullpen, it’s pretty much Santos and a bunch of aging veterans. As should be painfully obvious to all of us, this pitching staff is going to be a disaster as soon as next year whether we sell at the deadline or not. Unfortunately, the reality is we’re going to need to rebuild and it’s going to be a long one given how bad Rick has done at building a minor league system. Again, it’s time to blow this team the f*** up and start from scratch. Specific actions I’d like to see taken will be in a follow-up post.

I'm sorry, I know it seems melodramatic, but I sincerely hope they trade no one, honestly not even expiring contracts. I really think the only chance in hell there's ever a wholesale change in leadership is if the franchise totally craters. At this point, I'm willing to sign up for it, no matter how long it takes and no matter how deep the hole -- because the alternative is an eternity of knowing damn well the team isn't good enough and will only ever win again if every hand turns up aces like in 2005. And I'm being honest here, not vindictive or edgy: I've lost interest in this team. I'm not even watching the games anymore. It isn't to "penalize" the team or "send a message," it's just purely from totally losing hope and interest, and preferring to do other things. I click on SoxTalk almost every day, by rote, out of habit, and 90% of the time I bounce without viewing a single thread. Like I almost can't believe it as I type it, but I'm not sure I would even give a s%*# if they ripped off a 20-game winstreak and suddenly looked like a lock for the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong, but right now I just can't imagine it. It's like my subconscious has moved on. I'm just done with them. For literally the first time I can remember, the White Sox have ceased to be a part of my summer. I'm now wondering if it's possible that this fucking clownshow of an organization has somehow snuffed out this candle for me. And if so, what an achievement that would be -- I've been a fanatic most of my life, and I understand the swells and troughs of a competitive window. I'm patient and entertained by the process itself. It's just -- after this many consecutive years of being, overwhelmingly, a source of frustration for me, my brain feels like it's finally becoming trained to search elsewhere for meaning. This is truly EXCEPTIONAL incompetence, well beyond what can be expected even through luck. For a long time, we could root for signs that they were going to learn, change. adapt, improve, etc. We know now, after seeing them finally get the chance to do it totally right, with all the time and support they need, that, beyond the shadow of the doubt, they cannot. This is who they are. This is what they think works. They gotta go. Doesn't matter what it takes.

TA batting second at his current level of production tells us everything we need to know about Grifol as a manager.

The unwillingness to bat him 9 until he figures it out is insane.

We are in the worst case scenario. -Our previous leader Abreu couldn't wait to leave, 3 years after saying hed sign pretty much any contract to stay. -Our GM who has said would quit if he thought he wasnt the guy for the job, clearly still thinks hes the guy for the job. Ownership too loyal to cut the cord. KW likely has checked out and is picking up free paychecks for his title, reaping rewards of overly loyal ownership. - Managerial changes too often. I honestly can't get mad at Grifol. He may stink, but the problems go far deeper than him. -Rotten clubhouse that does not win and lose together or seemingly take ownership of the fate of this franchise. Is this TAs fault? It does not seem that he is a natural born leader and couple that with the TLR years, our clubhouse is just toxic to winning at this point. Someone tried to have some fun though and made that cool HR costume. -Our best contract ever given is to basically another Adam Eaton. Lose out or dont even try for the actual top talent. - Publicly telling one of your best pitchers you are not going to keep him or even try. Yes he may have left anyway but imagine the message it sends to the rest of the league. Why play for us? Especially if you are a union rep... look at how miserable AJ Pollack was here. - During all of the bad years, save for the LaRoche drama, I could usually say that I really like the players and know they try hard. I cannot say the same for this group. They look miserable and unfun. - We are stuck with terrible, antiquated ownership that has allowed this toxic situation to happen. Theres literally nothing we can do except wait it out, whatever it is, and I hope it ends with someone not named Reinsdorf running the show. Until then frankly enjoy a team that gives a s%*#. The Ray's are a nice neutral team to us with no hatred or rivalry but a great organization who can bring actual enjoyable baseball to people. Or be like me and partake in other hobbies or sources of entertainment. I hate this franchise. Why am I still here?

Fire Rick Hahn today, let KW make the fire sale trades, then get to work putting feelers out for replacements with actual baseball acumen. This season is lost, as are likely the next few. There is no simple quick fix, and any attempt is merely delaying the inevitable.

I don't want Hahn or even some of these scouts making the decisions on prospects though.

In terms of actions, here’s what I’d like to see happen immediately: Trade all rental-ish type players: Gioltio, Lynn, Clevinger, Graveman, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton, & Grandal Seriously explore a Tim Anderson trade and see if you can get 75% on the dollar (probably unlikely, but worth looking into) Release Andrus and give Sosa or Romy the 2B job the rest of the way DL Moncada for an extended period of time and let Burger handle 3B Demote Vaughn to Charlotte temporarily (have him focus on elevating the ball while clawing back a year of control) and let Eloy / Sheets cover 1B/DH Call up Colas and let him play RF the rest of the way even if he struggles Make Santos the closer and see if we can turn into a valuable asset Call up any arms with a pulse and be prepared for routine blowouts After the trade deadline, fire Rick Hahn (I’d do now if possible) and make KW interim GM for a couple of months. Pursue a GM from a quality organization in the off-season and offer him a President of Baseball Ops title. Mike Chernoff would be my top target. Once a replacement is had, force KW to resign and then clean fucking house. Getz, Haber, KW Jr. etc should all go (Paddy can stay for now). Grifol and his entire coaching staff should also go. Start afresh with a new GM and manager selected by the new front office. Immediately start modernizing the scouting, player development, and conditioning functions. Don’t rush things by drafting high floor college players. Let this thing bottom out and hope you can string together several drafts of high ceiling talent. Build this organization the right way from the bottom up and hope the end product is a team can regularly dominate the worst division in major sports. This is really not that hard if we are willing to go external and do things the right way.

I agree, especially when a loser owner and GM, make us loyal die-hard fans so insane, by putting this horrible team on the field and getting us so upset to bring out our crazy feelings.

Glad TA is hitting 2nd again. The last thing you'd want is someone on base distracting Robert while he was trying to hit.

Suggest to start by blowing Rick Hahn right out of Chicago. He is the architect of most of our failures. He has been GM for too long. We need to bring in a competent outsider IMO.

New ownership is desperately needed, only way heads will roll.

How many different coaching staffs do these players have to fail with before they get some of the blame?

Do you want Hahn trying to retool a 4th place roster in the offseason with limited resources to spend? As much grief as he has gotten for the last couple years, nothing he has done has been as damaging as his retooling attempts.

League average slashline is at .245/.316/.406 Vaughn is .240/.329/.439 He’s a major leaguer at this point, he’s got to work it out in the majors. Nothing he can do at AAA he can’t do here, and since the Sox aren’t competitive there is no reason not to let him do it

I definitely am fully on board to trade Giolito, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton and Graveman. Not sure you could get anything for Lynn, Clevinger and Grandal, but I'd certainly be fine moving them too. I've been a big Yaz supporter (and I know you have too, CWS), and he was a great signing at the time, but man its painful to watch him catch. Sox absolutely need to acquire someone who can play catcher that isn't named Seby Zavala. I just don't see the point in trading TA right now. You're talking nickel on the dollar right now. I said it about Giolito when many were down on him, but walk season improvements are a real thing. TA isn't Giolito level focused, but that man cares deeply about his next payday. If he keeps playing like he is, his next payday is going to be quite paltry. TA is going to improve, but 2023 may very well be a lost season. Bring him back in 24, watch the bounceback, and then move him next summer if the Sox suck again, and start the Colson era. Edit: I just came back to say fu*k you, Hanser. Ehh, I like Elvis. Dude isn't very good anymore and shouldn't be playing everyday and I am all for giving those reps to Sosa, Romy, Remillard, JRod, Ramos, etc., but assuming you cannot get a live arm pensman to give a trial to for the next few months for him, I'd keep Elvis around. Moncada is already IL'd, and likely will be for some time. So that one is done. AV isn't getting demoted, but man, he's been mostly brutal. Even just 3 weeks in the minors gets us a year of control back, so I am all for it, but 0% chance the Sox actually do that. Colas should be here anyday, I would imagine. Gregor mentioned it last night too, and I would guess that he wasn't just spitballing. Oscar has (finally) started to heat up a bit in AAA, and boy am I sick of watching the Gavin Sheets/Clint Frazier platoon. Send Frazier to the moon, please. Never seen a guy have more consistently decent at bats that end in absolutely nothing, especially when he's had the platoon advantage the majority of the time (referring to Frazier here). He's honestly hit the ball hard like 5x the whole season. Where is that power? I'd actually look to trade Santos. Dude is filthy, but always sell high on relievers. Dudes arm could fall off, or his control could go at any moment. I'd be shocked if he turns into a legit back of the pen guy for the next half decade. If you can get a legit SP prospect for him from a cheap team desperate for pen help, I'd trade him all day.

That's why other than Giolito, probably best to wait till the offseason in my opinion.

Eloy is pouting because he is now an everyday DH. Eloy is an everyday DH because he can’t catch baseballs or stay healthy. Trade Eloy if he stays healthy into mid-late July.

Well, they're also not doing well because they currently have a bullpen game every fifth day because they don't have enough starting pitchers. They're also not doing well because they're still forcing DH's to play RF. They're also not doing well because they still don't have a 2B. Also, we are 10% into the Benintendi contract. He's been fine in a 'he can help your team' way, not in a 'largest contract in team history' way. I will be pleasantly surprised if that contract doesn't get worse and worse each year.

We’re tired of you not producing this season.

I'd walk Ohtani every freaking time

We all agree that it would be very on brand for this team to randomly light up Shohei after struggling offensively all month, right?

The White Sox are 12-12 in 1-run games. They are better in 1 run games than they are in blowouts. This is selective memory- because the White Sox have heartbreaking losses, we can pretend those go away to make the team better; but we forget the magic unbelievable victories that could also easily have gone the other way. The Twins are 8-14 in those games. Case in point. They lost on a wild pitch last night. Totally unbelievable as bad luck right? They won on a wild pitch that bounced off an ump earlier this month! They won a game on a super controversial call earlier this month, when an earlier season version of the Sox lost on that same call. They have the 6th worst run differential in baseball half way through the year. They are barely above the rebuilding Nationals and Tigers. These are not competitive teams

Watching the difference between the Sox and Orioles at Hi-A is depressing. Every Oriole, even the np ones, gives a solid ab. They never get themselves out. Cannon hasn't been bad, but they've battled and got some key bloops, lead 3-0. Jackson Holliday hammered a double in his 2nd ab. It's really the only hard hit ball of the night for either team.

Can’t wait for the first post after TA gets a hit…”shut up haters!”

As usual CWS, your post laid it out eloquently. But, given their refusal to fire Hahn, I just think that a sell-off will be Hahn picking players off of prospect lists with half-assed negotiations. If he's parsed and analyzed the prospect lists of the 10 or so teams that will be in the trade market, then yes we should sell. But at no time in his tenure, as he shown the ability, interest or energy to do that.

Hence, no SoxFest. They care far more about negative PR/perception than what the fanbase actually wants. Even Ricketts has been like a Profiles in Courage Award winner compared to the Sox triumvirate of power.

It was CRAZY to not offer Rodon the QO.. However, the two pitchers didn't have the same situation. Rodon had his first good and healthy year ever, and Gio had a few strong years. One is certainly an easier decision.

I think you gotta trade Lucas because the value will be too good to pass up. If you can get a top 100 prospect or more, you have to take that over a QO.

If you go full tear it down rebuild then you have to trade Cease and Robert. What good does Luis Robert do the White Sox if he is a star player on a rebuilding team for the next 3-4 years? He is more valuable to us on someone else's team in this scenario.

The upper minors are barren and devoid of talent. It’s worse than the big club. They still can’t scout, draft, or develop, and unless you want to trade Cease and Robert, you have nothing to jumpstart the next rebuild. TA, Gio, Lynn, Moncada, Kelly, or Liam aren’t bringing back impact talent either. This org is completely fucked, and look no further than the dopes in charge. We won’t see competitive baseball on the Southside for at least 5 years. It’s that dire.

Well if there's one org that can help him stay healthy, it's this one...

No. There is no easy fix. This is worst case scenario territory. I hope we enjoyed that ALC title from a few years ago, because that was the peak for this bunch.

I had no idea he was this bad.

Which is why this org is completely fucked.

Probably not. These grievances aren't nearly as common as they're brought up. If Jordan Walker getting demoted didn't lead to a grievance, not sure how AV would. When's the last time one of these was even filed? Kris Bryant? The reality of the situation is AV is a career -0.6 fWAR player, has 250 minor league PA to his name, has regressed slightly offensively since an underwhelming 2022, and is a terrible fielder anywhere you put him. I believed in AV - and still do believe in the bat to some degree - but a short term demotion isn't even close to grievance level, IMO. That said, Sox won't do it.

If you do these things you suggest how do we expect any improvement in our standing and team performance? We have good players they just need to perform better. I think that’s possible

Coaching is a problem, but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s%*#. A few of us noted that preseason, this team was projected by most systems for around 78-82 wins. Players that were supposed to push the Sox towards 90, including Tim Anderson, Eloy, Moncada, Vaughn, Lynn and a few others are simply no longer stars, or even average regulars. Anderson himself is the difference between 85 wins and 80 given he's gone from a reliable 3-4 WAR player to negative. Hahn has done a horrible job of recognizing and responding to true talent dropoffs and has made short sided trades (Lynn for Dunning, the whole Madrigal process) that have gutted what should have been new talent coming into their prime as others declined. He further failed in FA to even paper over 2nd base, and it's hard to give him much credit for giving Benintendi a poison pill type contract just to find an average regular in LF.

I 100% believe that if Tony LaRussa was medically capable of managing the White Sox he would be managing the White Sox right now, and I also believe they'd be a couple games worse than they are right now because his choices go beyond baffling to the point of "doing stupid things because I have to prove I'm smarter than everyone else". What exactly knocked him out last year, something internal or a continued problem with substances, I don't know, but he'd be here right now if it wasn't for that.

Ya, I think unfortunately we just need to bleed this season out and hope somehow/someway we finally get a front office change in the offseason. There's just no good answers here until Rick is gone I'm afraid.

This season has been disappointing....no doubt about it. However, I still believe in the talent. I think the coaching is the problem. Blow up the staff and bring in a new manager, hitting coach, and pitching coach. Bad leadership is a recipe for disaster no matter how good the team is and we have a clown show leading our team.

Rick Hahn at home, knowing he is signed through 2027. #FireRickHahn

Vaughn has been disappointing but he’s still been our 2nd or 3rd best hitter. Don’t see how it could be justified to send him down in favor of Sheets

Call up Colas and send Vaughn down and shift Sheets from RF to 1B. I'd be down with this.

And I'm saying that people on a internet message board generally aren't thinking about journalism standards when they see something in quotes that's not capitalized, they think it's an actual quote. See how miserable and boring this team is? It's got us arguing about quotation marks.

That's a pretty pathetic standard when instead of World Series aspirations coming into 2022 the bar is now reduced to comparisons with KC Oak Detroit Colorado and WSH and simultaneously trying to sell the notion that Benintendi isn't THAT bad a contract. Great company with those cellar dwellers by the way. Pretty much the same exact place in the standings as the attendance race, 24th-26th.. Unfortunately, the White Sox don't even get what they pay for at 12th...ofc, someone will inevitably defend JR for running that Top 40th percentile payroll, but that's hardly a compliment because the money has been so terribly misallocated.

No. Rick Hahn should not be able to trade any player that isn't expiring at the end of the year. Simple as.

Shuffling chairs around on the Titanic is not the answer people. Time to lower the life boats{clean house}.

2/3s of the roster is dedicated to players who contribute nothing. Robert has more WAR than every other position player on the team combined. They're the Charlotte Knights without him. Fixating on who pitches when or any decision on the margins is a total waste of time when the talent level is this abysmal.

Hopefully he has it with another organization. He needs to go.