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This race has pulled me back in to an otherwise miserable season. This is why you need a secondary rooting interest. My Cub hatred has brought me considerable joy over my lifetime ?

I'm 78 and I need another rebuild like I need a case of swollen hemorrhoids but I see no other way out of this, we have a heartless non-hustling fundamentally unsound baseball team and it needs to be blown up and that means no untouchables including Robert.

The way this franchise is trending by June of next season you'll just have a monthly game thread.

Well the end of the minor league season has hit while I was traveling and no Sox affiliate made the playoffs. Interest has unsurprisingly dropped off with football starting. I don't know if AZL will have threads but I just wanted to thank everyone on this board for contributing and helping this season. Despite the dreary season, people kept it civil over here and thanks all for that.

This post is useless. Why? Sox have no assets to trade that would support a tank/rebuild. Moncada, TA and Eloy and Cease are not going to bring enough in. I am in favor of getting rid of TA and Moncada, sure. But a tank/rebuild will not work this time. You aren't going to get much for either TA or Moncada, folks. Eloy 'might' bring something useful in the rebuild mode. Moncada is a player nobody with a brain wants. Cease walks too many batters to bring back a ton of useful rebuild assets. The Sox blew it by hiring Getz and hiring Pedro. The only way out of this is to have competent baseball people made a couple trades, coach up the few good players we have in the minors, draft well (lol Sox don't draft well) and try to get back to .500 which will let u compete in the laughable Central Division. A tank/rebuild? I'd rather the Sox move or be contracted from the league.

I don't see why I should trust them to rebuild any more than they retool. Just because you rebuild doesnt mean you will actually become a contender. This shouldnt have to be explained given our current situation. Simple as that.

Game threads should be for individual games. Hope this series thing created by @flavum goes away in 2024. That is all.

The perfect storm of mediocrity, valuable controlled assets and recent success on the north side afforded the previous front office a uniquely supportive fanbase for a complete rebuild. Now seven years later, that golden ticket opportunity has clearly been squandered and the fanbase seems dead set against rebuilding again. Sox internet lambastes: “Until Jerry is gone, nothing will change, so what is the point”. If that is the sentiment, why not rebuild? Are fans excited to enter the lose-lose Jack Flaherty and Amed Rosario sweepstakes this winter, only for any veteran signing to move the Sox expected World Series needle odds by 0.5%? I understand and share in the helplessness we all feel right now, but we have to play the hand we are dealt, no matter how many Jerry Jokers we are holding. For me it is simple, the options are: A. Enjoy watching Luis Robert for three more seasons, likely with zero chance at winning a World Series, and only a slightly better chance at winning a terrible division. B. Trade what little valuable assets the White Sox have (In what could possibly shape up to be a seller’s market) and rebuild. I choose option B by a large margin. I won’t go over the obvious reasons (everyone sucks) and instead offer my outside the box takes on the situation: 1. Rebuilding slightly minimizes the Jerry Reinsdorf effect. You can’t miss out on free agents you aren’t try to sign. Tony La Russa can’t manage players you haven’t drafted yet. 2. I believe the MLB doesn’t love tanking or complete tear downs and will continue to put rules in place to disincentive clubs from doing so. Being one of the last organizations to possibly attempt a teardown would be +EV. I’d also love to see a front office acquire bad contracts from teams, matched with prospects, especially from clubs that are attempting to avoid Luxury Tax penalties. I also assume the minute that becomes a thing, MLB will be there to put an end to it. Doing that this offseason would obviously beat the league to the punch. 3. A sale of the club feels at least a few years away. Why not minimize liabilities and hope to be as attractive of an asset as possible? Adding a Benintendi super splash signing a year to the books for the next few years could severely hamper any instant impact a new ownership group might have. 4. The Sox were picking 11th in year 1 of the rebuild last party. They will have a much better pick next year and would be close to a lock for at least one more top 4 pick before things got better. 5. After a phenomenal season and with a contract that only gets shorter, it is significantly more likely you are selling high on Robert than it is that you are selling low. Do we all wish it wasn't Chris Getz in charge of a possible rebuild? Sure. But does it mean we should just watch Luis Robert play for a 60-70 win team for 3 more years and then jump off a bridge?

The Cubs need to win out, have the Marlins lose out and have the Reds lose at least one more time.

Korey Lee is worst player in Sox history

So you want the coaches that you don't like to "coach up players". You want the GM that you don't like to make a couple trades. And you want the Sox to draft well even though you say they don't draft well. Sounds like you'd like them to start fresh with a rebuild, you just don't realize it.

Aside from a popup winner in 2005, the pathetic record of this team for countless decades (well, they were actually counted) speaks for itself that there is no direction they choose likkely to work. It is an incompetant organization, historically so. Perhaps the unwillingness to invest in a productive farm team prevents them from being successful despite themselves. But until they finally decided to build a sustainable model for the farm system to flourish, all this talk about which direction to choose is empty gumflapping.

Should have sold high. Always sell high on relievers. Especially when you suck.

I would bet that Jerry Reinsdorf would be ecstatic to add a few years onto the current White Sox park agreement as long as the deal remained the same. It's so ludicrously pro-Reinsdorf that he'd probably jump at that.

I would have ranked them #31.

I was sent an e-mail tonight by a longtime former member of the Chicago media who covered the Sox. They said (quote) "Getz and Gene Watson are disaster hires. I wonder if pro scouts will depart and if Mike Shirley will be promoted."

He's a starter with a 5 ERA in the minors. And somehow they got away with it hahaha

And most of their fans are also Packers fans...so eww. I stand them cause they usually screw the Cubs...but this is the opposite of that.

Milwaukee haven't used their best bullpen arms for 2 days...just no excuse to not even use a guy worthy of your playoff roster.

Cubs scored all their runs off AAA pitchers. That's some bullshit from Counsell.

This s%*# really needs to be addressed. Brewers shouldn’t mess with the baseball gods. It will catch up with them next week.

Is it possible that Shaw has pitched more innings than Cease this season?

There’s still a clear and obvious problem. This guy is the assistant GM in an organization without a president of baseball operations. Hes one step below where Rick Hahn was for a decade. He has multiple operations to oversee, dozens of employees, salary decisions, player decisions, draft decisions. He should be receiving hundreds of reports yearly on players, performance, new ideas for things to try, all sorts of other things. Those organizational philosophies that we want the White Sox to develop and practice at all levels? It’s his job to help develop and oversee the implementation of those and then find ways to evaluate their effectiveness. This is NOT a guy who should be personally working with pitchers. When he was first brought into a front office role, working directly with pitchers and bringing in new training techniques was his job. In a management role, his job is to find the people who have positive and helpful new ideas and hire or contract with them to work with his pitchers. To make good decisions at his level that empower the staff who are below him and give them the tools they need to succeed. These sound like the jobs of assistant pitching coaches and development staff. Or of physical trainers or digital coaches or guys who are software experts. Not of an assistant GM. He not only can’t possibly do his job well while working with pitchers personally, he shouldn’t even be trying. If he’s working with pitchers directly then he can’t possibly do his other job well: If he is trying to, then we are perfectly set for more of the same.

Marlins pull out another one . Burger had a great game . this team is fun to watch.

Burger makes a spectacular play on Hayes to get the Marlins the win. If Milwaukee hangs on the Cubs are pretty much done.

Burger ties it in the 8th

Figures Moncada turns it on once everyone has stopped watching

Reminds me of when we threw him against the Royals a day before the trade deadline in 2021 when it was 100+ and we played Andrew Vaughn at 2nd base. Like what was even the point of throwing a fatigued Rodon in that weather when you put out a IDGAF lineup?

There's a point to be made about Taylor having a vastly superior season to Benintendi and the Twins acquiring him on the cheap, but whatever. None of this stuff on the margins matters now anyway.

It's amazing how many managers are going to be available/fired, and yet Pedro Grifol has the job security of a Supreme Court Justice. Btw, isn't Counsell gonna end up on the Mets?

Plus, when he has surgery in April or May of 2024, they'll still think he can come back in 2025.

It doesn’t matter what you call it, it’s happening

yet more damning comments about Sox not being present or prepared enough on a daily basis Michael Kopech “As a starter, it seems like you don’t have to be ready every day. You have to be ready every fifth day, but that’s something that’s not the case,” Kopech said. “You have work every day between starts. “You have work to do as far as studying hitters, being a professional and going about your work. And not that I didn’t do that, but I could have been more present each day. That’s what I hope to take into the offseason and into next season.”

So he will be here for spring training and then surgery April 1st. Got it.

CPD Commander John Spellman interceded on behalf of Jerry Reinsdorf 's Chicago White Sox and Jerry Reinsdorf's security firm At Your Service LLC, while working as supervisor for Jerry Reinsdorf's internal security firm during the game in question. John Spellman did not implement CPD Patrol Chief Brian McDermott's request to stop the game for public safety reasons. As a result of John's actions, acting CPD Superintendent Fred Weller has demoted John Spellman from Commander to the rank of Lieutenant. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023/9/28/23895258/chicago-police-demote-commander-white-sox-park-shooting?utm_campaign=socialflow-cst&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter No further updates at this point regarding the Chicago Public School shooter responsible for this debacle.

We don't know the structure yet, but the fact that these guys are getting such broad-ranging titles makes it seem pretty obvious to me that they are just replacing the overworked guys who were here with new guys in the same basic roles. The new guys think things will be ok, then they are going to be hit by the amount of tasks on the table for them, try to do the best they can, and wind up half-assing everything because they can't possibly do all the tasks they're supposed to do but somehow things need to be finished. Just like the guys right now.

Most MLB FO and Managerial contracts are 3 years or more. If you only give a 2 year deal, they are a lame duck after the first season. Theoretically you hire someone that is both qualified and a person you want to lead a team or organization. Well at least that is how most of the other 29 teams operate. This is how the White Sox operate, both as an organization on on their injured players.

You can say that at the KW and Hahn level and it appears accurate. HOWEVER, at all the other levels of this organization, we constantly are talking about failing to do basic jobs - basic advance scouting, basic big league scouting, minor leaguers who are unable to obtain the type of coaching and feedback that they need to have success and who are sort of on their own to figure things out. We see people who are sloppy, we see people who aren't doing their jobs well. The Dodgers give AJ Pollock a huge amount of information, a giant book every day to prepare for his at bats, he comes to Chicago and they tell him that there's probably a pitcher who throws with an arm who will be on the mound tomorrow and he should get to work. The ticket sales and customer service departments have sounded awful the last few years, events and outreach and even just the general things that leave people feeling good have been stripped away. There's no one to say "Hey maybe Clevinger using 'gold digger' as his walkout song" doesn't reflect well on the team, so it just slips through. They haven't established a clear structure at the top, fair. However, at all the other levels of the organization, people are overworked and incapable of providing the type of information that players and decision makers need. They're all swamped, they're doing the best they can but the organization is so completely bare-bones, built to save money on staff, that it hurts everything else. That contrast shows up dramatically when you compare to the Cubs. The White Sox have 1 guy getting the same title as 3 or 4 guys there. They have a pitching expert, an international scouting organizer, etc. The White Sox just lump all that onto one guy, and we've seen how bad the results are.

I’ll be so annoyed if they don’t reach 100 losses. They don’t deserve to dodge that mark of futility.

You aren't familiar with our owner, are you?

Agree. It is beyond dumb to bring back the manager of such a bad performing team. I guess the main reason is that he is under contract and JR does not want to pay him as well as a new manager. IMO.

For me as a fan, this has been the worst season. Not just from the win-loss viewpoint. It is hard to be optimistic. It is hard to imagine a winning season in the near future.

It’s not just that we are the worst team compared to expectations. The Sox are the worst team in baseball right now and by a wide margin.

Thank goodness they got an F and are being called out. The White Sox are doing a great job in only one regard: Turning longtime multi decade "lifelong fans" into people who no longer care about their passion, White Sox baseball. They've turned many many fans into front runners. It used to be we loved our Sox thru thick and thin. Now ... wake us up when you actually have gotten your bleep together and have a contender. Worst season in Sox history with little hope for the rest of the decade. Thanks Sox (sarcastic) ... you made me not care. They make no effort to keep one likeable player in Abreu and then for some reason trade the semi-loveable Burger whose name truly fit that pudgy loveable face.

ESPN is right on the money, the 1970 White Sox would beat the crap out of the 2023 White Sox. I hate this bunch so much that at 78 years old I’m willing to risk another rebuild so I don’t ever have to see most of the clowns on this poor excuse of a MLB team ever again in White Sox uniforms.

The perfect ending for the season would be Jake Burger hitting a grand slam to win the 7th game of the world series. Thanks Kenny!

And so ends the era of the "young championship core" with the "multiple championships window." They never did "flip that switch."

I mean, it makes sense. We knew Fischer was gonna Major League his team. We didn't know Kenny and Hahn would make moves separately, get fired, the next GM would be internal, a team expected to contend for the division would COMPLETELY bottom out, Cease would collapse, Tim would be horrid thanks to Hanser Alonso's defense (i.e., preventable), Liam would get cancer, Sox fans would get shot, Pedro would be Boylen/Trestman 2.0, Middleton would be so ready to leave he'd shave his beard, our best pitcher would have domestic abuse lingering over him, rumors of a move to Nashville AND we're not even guaranteed a top pick. Basically, Sox fans are Mrs. Lincoln being asked if she enjoyed the play.

If they built out there and had a decent product they'd get 30k every night. A good portion of their fan base from the south side 30 years ago is out there. That being said I think they're fine where they are....sans the occasional falling bullet.

Sox should have hired AI to be the new GM.