Rumor: Dodgers & Sox discussing Sale & Frazier

[iWiN4PreP]

So... serious question... how many of you think this thread will turn into 200+ pages of posts which eventually amount to nothing. laugh.gif

 

It's going over 200 IMO, but I do think something gets done here. Albeit, it is too early right now. Something is going to happen. It should be a crazy, crazy off-season, more so than we've seen any of the past 10+ years.

[Eminor3rd]

Kinda curious to know what Frazier is adding in these deals

 

Honestly, I'm hoping.guessing that his inclusion is what gets them to include Urias. Probably the Sox are asking for Urias, and the Dodgers are balking and offering everyone BUT him. Seems like a reasonable compromise to add Frazier (who is realistically worth a decent prospect and a couple flyers) in order to up the ante to Urias instead of De Leon.

[elrockinMT]

Trading two star players for prospects is a risky deal. The main thing is not to sell our players cheap just because someone thinks we are backed into a corner and must trade. You better get a haul and none of this settling for second best

[chitownsportsfan]

I would guess a top 100 prospect plus a lottery ticket?

 

 

maybe if the sox are picking up some salary. Otherwise I'd say a B- position player type with a C or C+ minor league reliever.

[chitownsportsfan]

Trading two star players for prospects is a risky deal. The main thing is not to sell our players cheap just because someone thinks we are backed into a corner and must trade. You better get a haul and none of this settling for second best

 

it's also risky holding on to a depreciating asset while you are most likely in no position to capitalize on it.

[Jerksticks]

I bet the Sox are asking for Seager, as they should be, and the Dodgers are countering with these lame Urias proposals everybody is pitching on here.

 

Look, average major leaguers get traded for average major leaguers all the time, and good major leaguers get traded for good major leaguers all the time as well. Chris Sale is not only a superstar but a top superstar. I can understand the Dodgers being hesitant to start a deal with Seager, but that's because it's a fair place to start. This whole Urias is untouchable talk is utter nonsense. Urias is not a good enough get as the main piece. Not even close. Seager, more interesting for sure. Even he is a little bit too unproven.

 

I know it's popular to underestimate the capabilities of the front office but this is CFS we're talking about. The franchise is going to get a historic ransom if a deal goes through. I don't think it will. Salary inflation has made it nearly impossible for the Sox to get fair value.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I bet the Sox are asking for Seager, as they should be, and the Dodgers are countering with these lame Urias proposals everybody is pitching on here.

 

Look, average major leaguers get traded for average major leaguers all the time, and good major leaguers get traded for good major leaguers all the time as well. Chris Sale is not only a superstar but a top superstar. I can understand the Dodgers being hesitant to start a deal with Seager, but that's because it's a fair place to start. This whole Urias is untouchable talk is utter nonsense. Urias is not a good enough get as the main piece. Not even close. Seager, more interesting for sure. Even he is a little bit too unproven.

 

I know it's popular to underestimate the capabilities of the front office but this is CFS we're talking about. The franchise is going to get a historic ransom if a deal goes through. I don't think it will. Salary inflation has made it nearly impossible for the Sox to get fair value.

 

I feel like you think Seager is just the NL ROY and not a legitimate NL MVP candidate at the most premium position on the field. The Dodgers aren't improving much by swapping superstars. I love Seager, but it's doesn't make any sense for the Dodgers to move him.

[Quin]

I'd be asking for Urias, De Leon, Verdugo, Bellinger, Alvarez, Lux and Buehler in exchange for Sale, Frazier and Jennings.

 

Then turning around Quintana and Jones for Benintendi, Devers, Groome and Kopech. Maybe you can work in Abreu as their new DH and get Moncada in place of Devers.

 

At that point you're in a full rebuild - ship off Melky, Eaton, Gonzalez and Robertson.

 

The new farm looks great in this scenario, before getting what should be decent returns for Melky and Gonzalez, an OK package for Robertson and a stellar package for Eaton.

 

2017 Sox youth movement sans Melky/Eaton/Gonzalez/Robertson deals

 

LHP: Rodon, Urias, Groome, Guerrero

RHP: De Leon, Kopech, Fulmer, Adams, Hansen, Burdi, Alvarez, Buehler, Stephens, Danish

1B: Bellinger, Zangari, Danny Hayes

2B: Saladino (if healthy) and Sanchez for now

SS: Anderson, Lux, Curbelo

3B: Devers, Michalczewski

C : Collins, Narvaez

OF: Benintendi, Verdugo, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Tilson, May, Engel

 

But instead, I fully expect us to sign Jason Castro, re-sign Morneau and go for it.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I'd be asking for Urias, De Leon, Verdugo, Bellinger, Alvarez, Lux and Buehler in exchange for Sale, Frazier and Jennings.

 

Then turning around Quintana and Jones for Benintendi, Devers, Groome and Kopech. Maybe you can work in Abreu as their new DH and get Moncada in place of Devers.

 

At that point you're in a full rebuild - ship off Melky, Eaton, Gonzalez and Robertson.

 

The new farm looks great in this scenario, before getting what should be decent returns for Melky and Gonzalez, an OK package for Robertson and a stellar package for Eaton.

 

2017 Sox youth movement sans Melky/Eaton/Gonzalez/Robertson deals

 

LHP: Rodon, Urias, Groome, Guerrero

RHP: De Leon, Kopech, Fulmer, Adams, Hansen, Burdi, Alvarez, Buehler, Stephens, Danish

1B: Bellinger, Zangari, Danny Hayes

2B: Saladino (if healthy) and Sanchez for now

SS: Anderson, Lux, Curbelo

3B: Devers, Michalczewski

C : Collins, Narvaez

OF: Benintendi, Verdugo, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Tilson, May, Engel

 

But instead, I fully expect us to sign Jason Castro, re-sign Morneau and go for it.

 

I think both of your deals are overpays. Just using the players you proposed, I would say remove Alvarez and Buehler and Jennings from the Sale deal, and remove Groome from the Q deal to get a little more realistic returns. I'm just thinking that at some point the Dodgers will just rather use half of those pieces on Sonny Gray, rather than trading their top 4 pitching prospects (according to Fangraphs). The Dodgers deal you proposed is them trading their #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 and #12 prospects. Brock Stewart and Andrew Toles become their top 2 prospects and the Dodgers system becomes a bottom 5 system in baseball. I don't see them mortgaging ALL of that to fill 2 needs. The Red Sox trade is more reasonable, but still think it's a tad much.

 

EDIT: I just noticed you put Nate Jones in your Quintana deal. Nevermind, what you proposed actually seems pretty fair with Jones in there too.

Edited November 15, 2016 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I do think getting Walker Buehler would be really cool though. Not just because he's a transposed letter away from being Buehrle, but because him and Fulmer were teammates at Vandy and I think it would be really cool for both of them to be reunited again.

 

I mean, just look at the bromance here!

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/18082800/v152...ted-camaraderie

Edited November 15, 2016 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[hi8is]

I do think getting Walker Buehler would be really cool though. Not just because he's a transposed letter from being Buehrle, but because him and Fulmer were teammates at Vandy and I think it would be really cool for both of them to be reunited again.

 

I mean, just look at the bromance here!

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/18082800/v152...ted-camaraderie

Duh. Can't believe I missed him.

 

Everyone should look at this site. After the Walker write up, there's a fantastic chart that profiles all dodger prospects.

[caulfield12]

Let's not forget young Cuban Yadier Alvarez and his 100 mph fastball as a starter for the Dodgers in the low minors.

 

Hahn would definitely be looking at him, Bellinger and Urias to headline any deal. The pieces exist to make it without Urias, but Alvarez is still at least a couple of years away...maybe second half 2018.

[Steve9347]

In three years, I would be shocked if urias isn't better than Sale

That's some f***ing crazy s*** you just typed there. With the frequency that prospects disappoint, I can't believe you took the time to type such nonsense.

[maggsmaggs]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeyman 1m1 minute ago Aventura, FL

sources: Braves r among teams showing strong interest in chris sale. they have the pieces to get it done, too. great farm!

 

Braves would be interesting...

 

Not sure if Swansby would be in play, but Albies, Newcom, Allard and Maitan would be tasty along with a couple other lottery tickets.

Edited November 15, 2016 by maggsmaggs

[Y2Jimmy0]

Braves would be interesting...

 

Not sure if Swansby would be in play, but Albies, Newcom, Allard and Maitan would be tasty along with a couple other lottery tickets.

 

 

I don't think they have enough without Dansby honestly

[Chicago White Sox]

So in the last 24 hours, there have been reports of three teams expressing interest in Sale. That's a promising sign that a market could be developing quickly. I think it would be to our benefit for a Sale resolution to take place prior to the Winter meetings. Assuming someone meets his demands, Hahn could then focus his efforts on moving other pieces at the meetings and improve our chances of making multiple deals. I think any big moves are pretty much on hold onto they decide if Sale will be traded or kept. He's really the first domino that needs to fall.

[bmags]

Honestly, I'm hoping.guessing that his inclusion is what gets them to include Urias. Probably the Sox are asking for Urias, and the Dodgers are balking and offering everyone BUT him. Seems like a reasonable compromise to add Frazier (who is realistically worth a decent prospect and a couple flyers) in order to up the ante to Urias instead of De Leon.

 

This is what I was wondering. Doubt he gets you explicitly extra quantity, but the high level guys you are targeting.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I'm on another forum and some guy just said he wouldn't trade Trea Turner for Sale straight up.

 

Moron.

[Jose Abreu]

Yeah we'd need Dansby from ATL

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

So we have at least 4 teams that have expressed at least some interest in Sale (Boston, LA, Atlanta, and Washington).

 

This couldn't be playing out any better for the Sox IMO. Keep pinning all these teams against each other and take the best offer.

[Panerista]

So we have at least 4 teams that have expressed at least some interest in Sale (Boston, LA, Atlanta, and Washington).

 

This couldn't be playing out any better for the Sox IMO. Keep pinning all these teams against each other and take the best offer.

Agreed. If Sale is on the roster opening day for us, Rick and Kenny have (yet again) failed miserably.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Agreed. If Sale is on the roster opening day for us, Rick and Kenny have (yet again) failed miserably.

 

Or that their price wasn't met. Don't trade Sale just to trade him.

[NCsoxfan]

I'm on another forum and some guy just said he wouldn't trade Trea Turner for Sale straight up.

 

Moron.

 

I would do the deal personally from Washington's perspective, but it's not a layup at all. Turner has substantially longer control and likely more "projected surplus" than Sale.

[hogan873]

Or that their price wasn't met. Don't trade Sale just to trade him.

I would imagine (hope) that their price will be met. There are enough teams that will be desperate enough to win that they will offer a haul for one of the best pitchers in the game who is on a very friendly team contract. However, we don't really know what the Sox will be demanding. If they are smart (and we haven't seen enough proof that they are), they'll end up with a couple guys MLB ready plus a few guys who will be ready by 2018. Looking at the farm systems of the teams rumored to be interested, I like the idea of trading with Boston or LAD over the Braves or Washington.

 

The Sox are in a unique position where they could trade Sale, Frazier, and maybe even Quintana and still end up with a team that would be decent in 2017 and very good in 2018-19.

[Flash Tizzle]

Or that their price wasn't met. Don't trade Sale just to trade him.

It needs to be a high but reasonable price. I can't believe four teams bidding for Sale will ALL collectively low-ball Hahn. Someone is bound to give him what he wants.

 

This is why we didn't trade him last deadline, right? That the offseason would be better for his value with more teams available. That's the excuse I heard over and over. Well, it's time to act