Pedro Grifol named White Sox manager; Katz asked to return per Rosey

[caulfield12]

Kevin Long is the equivalent of taking a 12 seed or higher’s coach who gets to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA’s and hiring him for a P5 conference.

Sometimes it works, the media loves underdog and Cinderella stories, but it usually doesn’t translate more than 20% of the time.

Its the same thing with the Saban/Belichick Coaching Tree.  Kirby Smart and maybe Lane Kiffin have ended up doing well, but the majority haven’t succeeded.

There’s just no way to know, in the end.  If you could patent “gives great interviews” and  transform it into W/L success, but that has never convinced me ever since KW claimed Robin Vebtura would have been a five star general and was going to be an incredible leader of men on the diamond as well.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

It is. But I'm sure he means not able to play. IL the entire year, insurance picks of at least most of the tab.

That's....not happening.  He keeps saying it, but it continues to not be very likely at all.

However, Grifol being a catching guy may want the FO to find a catcher that is a much better receiver than our options.  Or maybe he can just make Seby into a better one.  So perhaps the chances of Sox just cutting bait with Grandal went from 1% to 5%.    

Still think you just gotta hope Yaz legs are healthy this spring and he can be useful as a part time catcher and pinch hitter.  The shift ban will help him a bit. Its unlikely he just completely forgot how to hit; he was playing on one leg all season. 

The other angle is here is Grandal may factor into the 1B rotation a bit more this year.  Assuming Pito is gone, when you pinch run for AV late in the game, someone has to play 1B.  Gavin may be around early in the year, but its going to be hard to keep him on the roster if its fully healthy once Colas arrives.  Now this roster staying fully healthy is very unlikely, but point being, Yaz is probably going to play more 1B than he has the last 2 seasons.  Not like 1B is a hard position and you can stick Leury or some s%*# there if needed, but not a lot options after AV/Sheets/Grandal, unless you want Eloy to try to learn how to do it occasionally.   

Edited November 2, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Greg Hibbard]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

That's....not happening.  He keeps saying it, but it continues to not be very likely at all.

However, Grifol being a catching guy may want the FO to find a catcher that is a much better receiver than our options.  Or maybe he can just make Seby into a better one.  So perhaps the chances of Sox just cutting bait with Grandal went from 1% to 5%.    

Still think you just gotta hope Yaz legs are healthy this spring and he can be useful as a part time catcher and pinch hitter.  The shift ban will help him a bit. Its unlikely he just completely forgot how to hit; he was playing on one leg all season. 

The other angle is here is Grandal may factor into the 1B rotation a bit more this year.  Assuming Pito is gone, when you pinch run for AV late in the game, someone has to play 1B.  Gavin may be around early in the year, but its going to be hard to keep him on the roster if its fully healthy once Colas arrives.  Now this roster staying fully healthy is very unlikely, but point being, Yaz is probably going to play more 1B than he has the last 2 seasons.  Not like 1B is a hard position and you can stick Leury or some s%*# there if needed, but not a lot options after AV/Sheets/Grandal, unless you want Eloy to try to learn how to do it occasionally.   

I haven't chimed in on this thread yet (I don't dislike the hire) but just wanted to say that the more Gavin Sheets plays in 2023, the more the Sox's season will be disastrous. The less he plays the better off we all are. Gavin is the type of player you want on a rebuilding squad. He is not a meaningful major league asset to a contending team. 

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I haven't chimed in on this thread yet (I don't dislike the hire) but just wanted to say that the more Gavin Sheets plays in 2023, the more the Sox's season will be disastrous. The less he plays the better off we all are. Gavin is the type of player you want on a rebuilding squad. He is not a meaningful major league asset to a contending team. 

Agreed.  To me, Gavin is a placeholder for 3-4 weeks until Colas arrives and then is in AAA purely as an injury insurance.  Gavin is a fine depth piece to have around to fill in for a couple weeks when needed, but he's close to worthless as bench piece.  He has an option; hope to Sox abuse it this year.  

Same goes for Burger, btw. 

[Balta1701]

13 hours ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

Does it really matter at this point? We have a payroll dominated by relief and starting pitchers that we are stuck with, an 18 million dollar catcher not worth 5 million, players that are constantly on  IR OR DL list. Robert, Jimenez, Kelly, Engel, Moncada now Anderson got hurt. Yasmani and Moncadas contracts are not tradeable. They won’t play Corlas and give him a chance. We are loaded with 1st basemen and DH’s. We’re not going to resign Cueto or Andrus. Andrus could have solved the 2nd base problem for at least this year. Diekman and Kelly are a waste of money.  We still have no legit right fielder or second basemen. Not going to resign Abreu. Super Joe piece of crap 3rd base coach still around, is Frank M still the hitting coach? Are the bullshit training staff that don’t know how to get players ready still around. We get bigge4 problems then Pedro. Terry Francona if everything stayed the same would have the same record as Pedro. Believe me I hope I’m wrong. 

Elvis Andrus put up a .662 OPS over a 4 year period from 2018 to 2021. Josh Harrison over that time period put up a .683 OPS. Andrus is generally a weak baseball player at this point in his career, he is a backup at best for any good team. He came to the White Sox, and all of a sudden put up strong numbers because one thing happened - his HR rate on fly balls skyrocketed. Compared to even earlier in the 2022 season, his exit velocity on hits went down, he was less patient, his ground ball rate went up, but his HR/FB rate went from 7% (close to his career mark of 5.9%) to 19% (up there with the best power hitters in baseball). He squared up a handful of HR balls and it worked out really well for the White Sox, but unless he is turning into Barry Bonds, his HR rate isn't going to triple in his mid 30s.

That means - as nice as it was that we got this performance and as hard as it will be to replace - counting on Elvis Andrus to do anything like that next season is as unlikely as counting on Cesar Hernandez to keep up his high HR rate from the first half of 2021 through the second half, and we saw who made that mistake. Elvis Andrus is going to come out next year and be a 0-1 win player, putting up a mid 600s OPS, because that is who he is at this point in his career. If he's a backup somewhere on a competitive team and he gets 300 plate appearances for $2 million, that's fine. if he's on a team likely to win 65 games and he plays 150 games, that's fine. He is not a starting player on a competitive big league roster. If Anderson is traded away and a rebuilding White Sox team needs someone to cover short for a year until Montgomery arrives, sure that's fine. 

[pcq]

4 hours ago, oldsox said:

I thought PUP List was NFL terminology.

It is I just meant that he might be crippled. He gets paid regardless.

[Middle Buffalo]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Agreed.  To me, Gavin is a placeholder for 3-4 weeks until Colas arrives and then is in AAA purely as an injury insurance.  Gavin is a fine depth piece to have around to fill in for a couple weeks when needed, but he's close to worthless as bench piece.  He has an option; hope to Sox abuse it this year.  

Same goes for Burger, btw. 

On a normal roster, both would have value if the team doesn’t already have 9 DH/1B types

[The Grinder]

Like a few other applicants, I know nothing about him, what does his resume look like (dare I ask)?

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[Hang Wiffem]

24 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

I don't think that's even true but okay.

Jerry Manuel was hired in 1998.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, Hang Wiffem said:

I don't think that's even true but okay.

Jerry Manuel was hired in 1998.

But was fired in 2003.  So technically he's right.

[joejoesox]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Elvis Andrus put up a .662 OPS over a 4 year period from 2018 to 2021. Josh Harrison over that time period put up a .683 OPS. Andrus is generally a weak baseball player at this point in his career, he is a backup at best for any good team. He came to the White Sox, and all of a sudden put up strong numbers because one thing happened - his HR rate on fly balls skyrocketed. Compared to even earlier in the 2022 season, his exit velocity on hits went down, he was less patient, his ground ball rate went up, but his HR/FB rate went from 7% (close to his career mark of 5.9%) to 19% (up there with the best power hitters in baseball). He squared up a handful of HR balls and it worked out really well for the White Sox, but unless he is turning into Barry Bonds, his HR rate isn't going to triple in his mid 30s.

Were teams pitching to Sox hitters in a HR-friendly manner knowing they weren't taking advantage of those pitches due to the Menechino approach, and Andrus took advantage due to the fact that he hadn't been completely reformed under Menechino? 

[Hang Wiffem]

14 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

But was fired in 2003.  So technically he's right.

"hired in the past 20 years"

 

[A-Train to 35th]

5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

That's....not happening.  He keeps saying it, but it continues to not be very likely at all.

However, Grifol being a catching guy may want the FO to find a catcher that is a much better receiver than our options.  Or maybe he can just make Seby into a better one.  So perhaps the chances of Sox just cutting bait with Grandal went from 1% to 5%.    

Still think you just gotta hope Yaz legs are healthy this spring and he can be useful as a part time catcher and pinch hitter.  The shift ban will help him a bit. Its unlikely he just completely forgot how to hit; he was playing on one leg all season. 

The other angle is here is Grandal may factor into the 1B rotation a bit more this year.  Assuming Pito is gone, when you pinch run for AV late in the game, someone has to play 1B.  Gavin may be around early in the year, but its going to be hard to keep him on the roster if its fully healthy once Colas arrives.  Now this roster staying fully healthy is very unlikely, but point being, Yaz is probably going to play more 1B than he has the last 2 seasons.  Not like 1B is a hard position and you can stick Leury or some s%*# there if needed, but not a lot options after AV/Sheets/Grandal, unless you want Eloy to try to learn how to do it occasionally.   

Eloy at 1B would be a disaster, end that idea please. He's a DH, and if you play him in the OF he's an accident waiting to happen.

Edited November 2, 2022 by A-Train to 35th

[maloney.adam]

Grifol was a catcher and helped Salvy become the catcher he is today. I’m interested to see how he will help Grandal.

Edited November 2, 2022 by maloney.adam

[hi8is]

10 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I’m interested to see how he will help Grandal.

Why? He’s only here one more season, if that.

[maloney.adam]

9 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Why? He’s only here one more season, if that.

Grandal is still a good catcher. He just had a terrible year last year but can bounce back. Being injured for pretty much the whole year didn’t help. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Grandal is still a good catcher. He just had a terrible year last year but can bounce back. Being injured for pretty much the whole year didn’t help. 

If anything, Grifol would help the younger guys in camp, backup than the almost 34 year old, on the downside of career veteran.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Grandal is toast.  The best you can hope for is he goes back on the juice and gives them a passable 60-70 games.  He should be released.

[A-Train to 35th]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Elvis Andrus put up a .662 OPS over a 4 year period from 2018 to 2021. Josh Harrison over that time period put up a .683 OPS. Andrus is generally a weak baseball player at this point in his career, he is a backup at best for any good team. He came to the White Sox, and all of a sudden put up strong numbers because one thing happened - his HR rate on fly balls skyrocketed. Compared to even earlier in the 2022 season, his exit velocity on hits went down, he was less patient, his ground ball rate went up, but his HR/FB rate went from 7% (close to his career mark of 5.9%) to 19% (up there with the best power hitters in baseball). He squared up a handful of HR balls and it worked out really well for the White Sox, but unless he is turning into Barry Bonds, his HR rate isn't going to triple in his mid 30s.

That means - as nice as it was that we got this performance and as hard as it will be to replace - counting on Elvis Andrus to do anything like that next season is as unlikely as counting on Cesar Hernandez to keep up his high HR rate from the first half of 2021 through the second half, and we saw who made that mistake. Elvis Andrus is going to come out next year and be a 0-1 win player, putting up a mid 600s OPS, because that is who he is at this point in his career. If he's a backup somewhere on a competitive team and he gets 300 plate appearances for $2 million, that's fine. if he's on a team likely to win 65 games and he plays 150 games, that's fine. He is not a starting player on a competitive big league roster. If Anderson is traded away and a rebuilding White Sox team needs someone to cover short for a year until Montgomery arrives, sure that's fine. 

Kinda sounds like Leury, except for the 3 year 5.5 mil per year contract we gave him.  Ouch.

Edited November 2, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[Sox72]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Kevin Long is the equivalent of taking a 12 seed or higher’s coach who gets to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA’s and hiring him for a P5 conference.

Sometimes it works, the media loves underdog and Cinderella stories, but it usually doesn’t translate more than 20% of the time.

Its the same thing with the Saban/Belichick Coaching Tree.  Kirby Smart and maybe Lane Kiffin have ended up doing well, but the majority haven’t succeeded.

There’s just no way to know, in the end.  If you could patent “gives great interviews” and  transform it into W/L success, but that has never convinced me ever since KW claimed Robin Vebtura would have been a five star general and was going to be an incredible leader of men on the diamond as well.

What in the absolute f*** are you talking about. 

[Sox72]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Kevin Long is the equivalent of taking a 12 seed or higher’s coach who gets to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA’s and hiring him for a P5 conference.

Sometimes it works, the media loves underdog and Cinderella stories, but it usually doesn’t translate more than 20% of the time.

Its the same thing with the Saban/Belichick Coaching Tree.  Kirby Smart and maybe Lane Kiffin have ended up doing well, but the majority haven’t succeeded.

There’s just no way to know, in the end.  If you could patent “gives great interviews” and  transform it into W/L success, but that has never convinced me ever since KW claimed Robin Vebtura would have been a five star general and was going to be an incredible leader of men on the diamond as well.

I can’t stop reading this. It’s one of the dumbest posts in the history of SoxTalk. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Sox72

[pcq]

As Royals coach Senor Pedro boned up on analytics and won over Ned Yost on the need for shifting. So he should be a bridge for the old guard in Sox.org to join the new century. Good luck. 

[Sambuca]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Kevin Long is the equivalent of taking a 12 seed or higher’s coach who gets to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA’s and hiring him for a P5 conference.

Sometimes it works, the media loves underdog and Cinderella stories, but it usually doesn’t translate more than 20% of the time.

Its the same thing with the Saban/Belichick Coaching Tree.  Kirby Smart and maybe Lane Kiffin have ended up doing well, but the majority haven’t succeeded.

There’s just no way to know, in the end.  If you could patent “gives great interviews” and  transform it into W/L success, but that has never convinced me ever since KW claimed Robin Vebtura would have been a five star general and was going to be an incredible leader of men on the diamond as well.

Classic.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Sox72 said:

I can’t stop reading this. It’s one on the dumbest posts in the history of SoxTalk. 

Taking the popular media media choice for every open coaching/managing position always works out so well.

If the Phillies had missed the postseason, why would everyone be talking about Long?

They wouldn’t at all.

The Phillies’ success rides 100% on the back of massive FA spending, which will never be replicated in Chicago.

Now if this is predicated on Long fixing the likes of Bohm and Stott over the course of the season…and that somehow applying to reaching Grandal, Moncada, Anderson and Luis Robert by osmosis, sure.

But Grifol at least had six years as a minor league manager, and three winter ball seasons in Venezuela, including a trip to the championship series.  The pressure in those games in some ways is more intense than the World Series.  
 

But Long hung out with Juan Soto in the stands to cheer on ex teammates. Okay.