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Is this thread a time warp? Harper and Wheeler?

Good news maybe?

Look past home runs, average and runs batted in. You’ll become a more knowledgeable fan if you do. There’s a lot more to the game.

Yeahhh no Jack is definitely going to give us his diagnosis on how Moncada has recovered in every game thread next year plus a couple individual threads.

Hahn did not “inherit” one of the “worst farms in the system”. He was the #2 guy in charge within the organization for ten years prior to his promotion to GM and was primarily responsible, along with KW, for the state and condition of the farm system at that time. And to date, many years later, he still hasn’t built a scouting and player development program that can achieve a top ten farm system status on its own and not rely on trading off major league assets to acquire other team’s top prospects to do so.

Bauer is my #1 target if I am Hahn. SP in general is my #1 target. I would sign a few if you can....going back to 162 games you can't have enough SP, the Sox didn't even have enough for 60. After pitching, I would look for a lefty bat. I know he is on the older side, and defense is probably lacking, but I take a hard look at Michael Brantley. I am guessing that the Astros don't bring him back with guys like Tucker still looking for a spot. He is a professional lefty hitter who can get on base. I would see if you can get a 2 year deal and hope to find a RF in the next few years for the long term.

You’re right buddy, Fangraphs is never wrong, just like when they had Luis Robert graded as a 55 FV prospect prior to this season and still only have him as a 60 FV guy. But hey, if you actually think Oscar Colas is the same caliber prospect as Luis Mieses then god bless you!

Why are teams falling over themselves for a 35 FV player? Answer: He's not.

I can tell you Fangraphs is way off with that valuation.

I waited for 3 1/2 hours at the DMV this morning to get my Tennessee driver’s license and voter registration in order. Basically lost a half day of work at the worst time of year for me, but it was worth every waking second knowing I’ll be able to vote against this fucking clown in a red state.

Stone, Frank, Ozzie and Chuck have all ripped Ricky fairly publicly. That wouldn't be happening if Ricky was staying for the foreseeable future like some here think. He's definitely on the hot seat after the boneheaded decisions this year. Rick Hahn isn't blind. This rebuild will be his legacy. He won't let that ship sink with Ricky freaking Renteria continuing to manage is things aren't going well.

This may be long winded, but I really like to write these more for myself than anything so I can look back on my own thoughts. First thing that comes to mind are teams like the Rangers that are actively saying they'll be cutting payroll. I don't think they'll be the only ones. It's times like this I wish our owner wasn't JR, because this is about a perfect of a storm you'll ever get. You have a young, talented team, coming into form, ready to take that next step - meaning, winning a playoff series, possibly competing for a pennant if things all go right. I'm probably the poster you hate to hear, but I realistically never really believed this team was coming out the other end ... just couldn't realistically expect Dunning, Rodon, Cease to carry the back end of the rotation through a playoff grind and against playoff lineups. I think realistically, that's the same problem next year. You have a lot of arms, but we really need 2-3 of them to take that next step to where they can be counted on consistently. So is that Stiever, Cease? Crochet, etc I'm not so sure at this point. At this point my level of confidence is this order: Dunning, Kopech, Cease, Crochet (he'd be my number 2 in that last if I knew more about his injury, part of me thinks he'll come back and blow out his arm in ST or something) Steiver. I think realistically you're going to see a few steps back out of Keuchel, and that's fine. But that really means we need some of these guys to step up this year. I think this year was a bit unfortunate becasue over a 162 game season we would've been able to test drive a lot of these guys and build up some innings. Next year is going to be a grind, and some of these guys may start off hot, but can they keep that up through September and into October? This team will go as far as the rotation takes it. Which leads me to my next point - we need Bauer. I've been a backer of his and continue to be. Would we have TOO MUCH pitching? Maybe, but at the same time, we all know injuries happen and championship teams always have LUXURY at positions. Look at the yankees, injuries happen and they continue to win. That's a sign of a team with depth. Same with the Astros of years past, Cubs, etc. So to me, you bring in Bauer and just roll. If you have injuries like the Padres did at the end of the season, instead of having nobody ... (still don't get why they didn't pitch Gore or Patino more) you now have Cease, Steiver, Kopech, etc. to step up. Other SP I'd consider are Rich Hill and Alex Wood and Corey Kluber. Same as last season. Those guys CAN step in and win you playoff games. Those guys are also cheap, 1-2 year deals, and only going to give you 100ip because of injuries. Which, with our amount of possible SP? Can be a good thing. Outside of that? I pass on the SP out there. Bullpen: I think we're good, but always can look to add. Offense: I mean, you look around and you say where are the holes? Fortunately there aren't many. RF is obvious, but outside of that you really don't need anything if you believe in Engel as your 4OF, Mendick as your back UTIL IF, and Collins/Mercedes as your backup C. I for one am in that category. So where can we improve ... I mean I think you have to be content, and likely happy with Vaughn at DH/1B, so nothing there. Abreu isn't going anywhere. Madrigal/Anderson either. Moncada? This will take heat, but I call him Joe Crede. type of guy who CAN be a game changer, but more likely will be a nice bat, nice glove, but never reach his potential. I would be open to trading him (mostly because who else as you continue to go around the diamond -- not Eloy, not Robert, etc) but there's nobody waiting in the wings...so il think you're set almost every except for RF. So really the ONLY player I COULD see trading is Moncada. Which I'm not saying we should do at all. Just food for thought as I compose this post. What YOU can do. As teams are cutting costs, you can pick up guys who's contracts aren't ideal, a bit bloated, etc. but for free. So essentially a FA signing. Also the contracts in the offseason should be smaller ... so I'd like to be aggressive in this front. Names for Consideration: Chris Sale, Xander Boegarts (again this is where maybe getting creative with Yoan which nets you a SP could work in a way ... trade a Yoan then trade for Xander -- it's a little bit video game'esque, but there are going to be franchises looking to dump salary, so i think you can explore all options), Charlie Blackmon (Rox pay for part of contract or include a Hampson, Rodgers, Gray, etc.) Lorenzo Cain, Avi Garcia, Starling Marte, Springer. Weird thing is if you look to all the CF and RF on teams right now? Not that many viable options, or sure less than I expected. Sorry for the nature of this post.. it was really top of mind type of writing ... in synopsis ... i think you talk to the red sox and see what they're willing to do and for what price. i think its conceivable to get a Sale (if you're comfortable with his health), Xander, JD Martinez (the last two really don't have much of a spot unless other moves are made) I think you also call the Rockies who need to shed payroll, have some talent, and can find a match ... aka pairing an expensive RF like Blackmon (i understand the splits, age, etc. etc.) and maybe net yourself a nice other piece... Marquez, Gray, Hampson, Dahl, Rodgers, etc. Likewise, someone like Lorenzo Cain in RF, or Avi ... could make some sense too. My ideal offseason: Net me Sale, Bauer, Kluber as tier 1 choices. Stroman, Hill, Wood as Tier 2 choices - but please net me at least one outside arm that CAN be a difference maker in the playoffs. So don't mess around with Quintana and Robbie Rays of the world. OF - Tier one: Lorenzo Cain, Springer, Starling Marte, Blackmon (w a prospect or talent attached -- aka Gray, Marquez, Rodgers(not sure where you put him unless part of bigger trade/offseason). UTIL - acquire a nice vet, not really necessary in my opinion - I am super comfortable w Engel and Mendick + Leury etc. but maybe you make a move. Only guy I'd be willing to trade from our exisiting "core" is Yoan Moncada, i understand that is unlikely to happen, and would need several corresponding moves to make sense (aka Xander or Rodgers, or something, without those being net positive, not sure it's truly worth the risk unless you're receiving back a bonafide ace in return).

Longenhagen probably got some bad intel when Colas’ body went the wrong way. He’s back in elite shape with elite speed, power, & arm who has had success at various levels of Cuban & Japanese baseball at a very young age. To think he’s a 35 FV grade prospect is just laughable.

This may be the dumbest, most dangerous tweet in his whole presidency. Anyone who voted for this idiot con-artist should be embarrassed for the rest of their lives.

Unless Uncle Jerry is planning $200M+ payrolls long-term, Harper isn’t happening even if the Phillies would just give us his contract. I’ll keep saying it, but I think Oscar Colas is the name people need to peg for RF starting in 2022.

Yep. That's definitely the reason.

Cubs are going to be in a weird flux this off-season into next year. All of their FAs are up in '21 so they could look to make a final push with this team. But Theo also said something to the effect of "we've tried with this team, can't keep sending the same guys out there to the same effect, big moves could be made" (paraphrasing, believe it was from a DVS article). On top of that, Theo is already talking exit strategy and might abandon ship early. Maybe the Phillies see each opportunity to poach him. All in all, being a cubs fan this year might suck, beyond the normal reasons.

God. Now I have my hopes up for a Harper addition. Thanks, guys

Anyone else find it interesting that Hahn hasn’t done an end of season media call yet?

no idea but it would be a very good idea for the white sox to find out.

And we know who made it a political issue. Like wearing a mask was taking your rights away. The WH press secretary is trying to make herself innocent, but she briefed the press yesterday not wearing a mask. So irresponsible. It is time someone is held accountable.

We know he's been given a course of strong steroidal treatments that have a known side effect of serious cognitive impairment, we know his oxygen levels dropped to 80's at least twice which is where things get pretty foggy mentally, and we know that he's limited in who he can directly see and where he can go because he has a deadly contagious disease. We know he was heading pretty quickly in the wrong direction as of Friday, and we know that this disease can get really, really bad in a matter of hours. That's all information slowly pried out of his doctors rather than random tweets. It seems to me that it would have been prudent and responsible to temporarily transfer powers and authority to Vice President Pence until he turned the corner, which he has maybe done at this point. Luckily nothing happened, but it would have been absolute chaos if something catastrophic had happened while he was in the condition his doctors reported him to be in on Friday and at least some of Saturday. e:

I’m quoting the article. Again, that constitutional protection about innocent until proven guilty comes to mind. I’m certain you would all want it if under “suspicion.” Not going to comment again, as this is not a topic for Sox Talk. PM me if interested in a discussion on the topic.

When the comment was made, Haeger was “wanted” on “suspicion” of committing a crime, and the appropriate response is to wish suicide for him? Come on. I’m an attorney in the military and did criminal defense for 5 years. I take our Constitutional protections seriously. Comments like the one at issue are narrow-minded, ignorant, and downright dangerous under the wrong circumstances.

JR is loyal to everyone except the fans.

I'd trade for the Cubs owner any day. This list of "stupid" goes to Reinsdorf hands down. It's great to relish in the Cub's misery but in reality it's picking a speck when we have a log in our own eye. Outside of both teams having a world series this century the choke factor is huge on both sides. The Sox will always be the step child in Chicago.

If you re-build it, they will come.

Now for some good news! https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-initiates-pivotal-global-phase-3-clinical-trial-of-janssens-covid-19-vaccine-candidate Johnson & Johnson recently published some of their Phase 1/2 vaccine trial results, and so far so good. There were no serious health and safety concerns that arose from the ~1000 person trial, just the typical mild fever and soreness at the injection site we get with flu shots etc. The big upside for this vaccine candidate is that it's a single-dose vaccine. All of the other leading candidates will require at least one booster shot. That's more logistical headaches and a bottleneck on how many people we can vaccinate and how quickly--if we can pump out 100M doses by next summer of Moderna but each person requires two shots, that's only 50M vaccinated. J&J is starting a 60k person Phase 3 trial in multiple countries now.

No. We have tried that for 7 months and 200,000 are dead. It failed. Now what?

I think the perfect DH is Vaughn:). Sure he is right handed but really good right handers handle RHP. I think Vaughn can produce a 110 wrc+ against righties which is solid (and hopefully mash lefties at a 140 clip). The Sox need a lefty bat but with Jose and Vaughn it needs to be in right field. When the Sox get a healthy moncada and bat X in right field they have two solid options against RHP and I think Vaughn and madrigal will be fine against RHP because they are just good hitters.

The Cubs might be open for business this off season. So much roster uncertainty and assets of diminishing value. I would inquire about Darvish. Affordable (3 more years at @ 20/per) and coming off of a strong (and healthy) campaign. Not sure what it would take but a package built around the return of Cease might hold interest.

Renteria has one more year on his deal and he’s earned the right to coke back next year to be the manager imo. That being said, next year is do or die for him. He doesn’t make strides again like he did this year, he’s gone. Ideally the next manager is someone who can win while still developing the players.

Not sure I'd worry too much about Moncada. He even said he felt like he was better towards the end of the season. From everything I've read, it's just a waiting game. He's young enough he should be able to recover, and he has access to top notch medical personnel. I'd be far more worried about Kopech coming back and being able to contribute much of anything (assuming he even wants to come back).

They should fire themselves before they should fire Rickey.

So Tex, this is why there has to be shutdowns. Not everyone is responsible and when POTUS is one, it emboldens many others. Any hope that Trump getting Covid might spark more responsibly is out the window. Watch all the praise he gets for risking Secret Service lives.

Yes. This happened to every organization in baseball in 2020. My point was that during the previous 3 years (2017-19), the Sox netted amazing profits due to a very low payroll. Although they took a hit in 2020, you would think they would still have a pool of $$ to allocate toward the roster in 2021. I’m aware this team isn’t the Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers, but they should have money to spend on at least one more premium player. Not to mention the Encarnacion and Gio Gonzalez team options will likely be declined, saving them another $20 million. Ive read reports that some teams will be desperately trying to shed payroll this winter because of the economic hit COVID had on their budget. The White Sox should take advantage of this as they should still have cushion from the low payroll rebuild years.

Scottie Pippen quit on the Bulls infamously, then came back and won 3 championships. I am not so concerned with Ozzie quitting on the Sox, which he did, but the season was basically over, and there was some infighting. That said, no way for a return. We know how it got. It will all be about Ozzie, and when it’s not, it will be about Oney or Ozney. I will leave Jr. out of it, as he always seemed to be the least entitled offspring. And if you are all about analytics, Ozzie hates them more than Hawk. His time has come and gone. The Marlins of all teams, paid him for 3 or 4 years not to manage. That tells you a lot. JR is on record Ozzie will not manage the White Sox as long as he owns the team. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-white-sox/reinsdorf-ozzie-guillen-cant-come-back-white-sox-manager

You mixed that up. Rotator cuff is shoulder while TJ is elbow

You make some solid points. I prefer keeping both Grandall and McCann but as always...money talks.

I don't understand the fascination with Guillen. It is really time to cut ties with the past. 2005 was a long time ago. If the FO wants to make a change, I'd prefer they get someone outside the organization. At the very least interview a handful of candidates and come up with a choice. But just handing the job to Guillen doesn't make sense. This has to be an intelligent decision, not something based on emotion. Guillen does know a great deal about the game. I just don't want him managing the White Sox. Not now. Not ever.

Plus with Vaughn and Abreu, DH is spoken for.

They aren't moving Eloy to DH any time soon.

I might be in the minority on this and maybe get ripped for saying this, but I would keep McCann and trade Grandal. There are a significant number of teams that adding Grandal to their team would be an upgrade. I think McCann is as good of a catcher defensively as Grandal. Plus I don't think Grandal calls the pitch selection as well either for the pitchers. McCann has proven now for two years in a row that he is a sold contact hitter with some good power. The fact is, Grandall had 8 HR's in 46 games and 161 AB's, as opposed to McCann having 7 HR's in only 31 games and 97 AB's. Do the math...no comparison! More importantly, McCann is a much better contact hitter and hits for a far better batting average. McCann hit .289 vs Grandall at .230. Finally, since we need another starter or maybe a productive right fielder, Grandall would bring in that RF we need, or that starting pitcher or perhaps some excellent prospects to help continue this rebuild and keep it going for future years.

If you bring in Bauer he essentially becomes the pitching coach too:)

Pitch? Tends to happen with pitchers. They have this weird tendency to pitch baseballs.

You see what happened to Crochet out there? Coop's gotta go

Snag someone from cleveland and give them a fat contract seriously, those guys are amazing (yeah yeah bieber got shelled, but they still were remarkable)

C; Grandal, McCann 1B: Abreu 2B: Madrigal, Mendick, Yolmer 3B: Moncada SS: Anderson OF: Robert, Jimenez, Adolfo/Rutherford/FA, Engel, Leury DH: Vaughn Rotation: Giolito, Kuechel, Cease, Dunning, Kopech Bullpen: Colome, Bummer, Marshall, Fry, Heuer, Cordero, Foster, Johnson, FA

McCann was my top priority, but my optimism on a return is fading Colome was next, nothing longer than a 3 year deal...Well deserved I know we want Bauer/Stroman, but I don't see SP as such a pressing need, another arm would be nice, but with Kopech back and Cease/Dunning progressing, I'm less eager to overpay for an arm in the offseason Not sure what to make of RF, who's out there? Adolfo and Rutherford are...possibly, internal options Really love a super bench w/ McCann, Mendick, Yolmer, Engel, Leury, but we'll see what happens, hope the roster stays at 28

This is true. The White Sox have agreements with Norge Vera and 6 other players totaling just over $3 million. They have close to $2.5 million to spend still and teams aren't allowed to trade money. The 2020 period that was supposed to begin on July 2 starts on January 15. Most teams have all of their $$ spent. The Sox could have prioritized Cespedes and attempted to sign Colas in July 2021 but MLB moved this period to January 15, 2021 and the following period to January 15, 2022. I doubt either guy wants to wait that long and the Sox likely have plans for the 2022 money already anyway. Cespedes can sign whenever but Colas is still hung up with his Japanese deal. The White Sox have a great relationship with Alex Cotto, the agent for Colas who also represents Yoan Moncada and Norge Vera.