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Why would you have no hope for Sheets? I wasn't a fan of that pick but he's absolutely useful now. 16 homers and 83 RBI in the Southern League is impressive. He's dropped 20 pounds and implemented swing changes. Rival scouts think he can be decent in an outfield corner. He's enhanced his profile quite a bit.

Ah got it, so because Alex Rodriguez, CC Sabathia, Derek Jeter and Mark Texieria help the Yankees be a powerhouse for all these last few years, they are better than the 2021 White Sox. We won’t mention their rotation is Gerrit Cole, Corey Kluber, Jameson Taillon, Jordan Montgomery and Domingo German. For someone that LOVES playing traffic cop when people aren’t addressing the issue or not using “logic” you seem to be running away from this one, champ. Weird.

I seem to be one of the few posters on Soxtalk who is gung ho and positive about the team. I just posted over at the Athletic something that came to me. Why am I so positive when so many Sox fans are so negative? I think it's because while the Sox have been wandering in the wilderness during the rebuild, I just tuned the team and MLB out. I have been a Sox fan since 1970 when I lived in the Chicago area, but I haven't lived in Illinois since 1976, so it's pretty easy for me to do that. Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the fans who remain highly critical of the team have continued living through those painful years, and feel that team ownership and management owes them something for them having to endure those years. Is there something to that? For me, returning to the team as I did last year, all I see are good things and growth. Here are a few things that I really like (whether or not other Sox fans do). 1. The Sox have 9 players - tied with the Dodgers - on MLB's top 100 Players Right Now list. Only 4 of them are in their 30s, with Abreu 34. Lynn 33, and Grandal and Hendriks 32. 2. Of these 9 players, the young core is going to be here for 3 or more years. See my 3-5 year window article. Lance Lynn is only signed for one year, but could easily be extended. 3. Most of these 9 players are still improving -- Robert, Moncada, Giolito, Jimenez, Anderson. The other 4 should hang in there for another few years. 4. In addition to this top-100 core, the Sox are going to bring up three more young players with great upside - Andrew Vaughn, Michael Kopech, and Zack Collins. Some may think Collins doesn't belong on this list, but I think he just needs enough ML ABs to settle in and prove he'll be a very good offensive backup catcher and part-time lefty DH. Meanwhile, Vaughn and Kopech might join other Sox' players on that top 100 list soon. 5. The Sox also have a HOF manager, who has won far more games during the decades of integrated baseball than any other manager in history. He's won pennants and World Series with teams in both leagues. And he's bilingual. If he takes the Sox to the World Series and wins, he'll be the consensus best manager of all time. 6. I love the Sox new pitching coach Ethan Katz, and what I think he'll be able to do with the young Sox pitchers, especially Dylan Cease. 7. The Sox have one of the best, and perhaps the best, bullpens in baseball. This will help them win a lot of games, and will become of even more importance when the Sox make the playoffs. And that's without counting Garrett Crochet, the 100-mph man, who could be the ultimate bullpen weapon this year before he converts to being starter. 8. The Sox probably have the best offense in the AL. They can bash the ball with anyone. But they can do more than just bash. They have some great speed guys in Robert and Anderson, and some excellent bat control guys like Madrigal and Eaton. 9. The Sox have the reigning AL-MVP in Jose Abreu, who has won the RBI title the last two years. They have perhaps the best closer in baseball in Liam Hendriks. They have the 2019 batting title winner in Tim Anderson. 10. In Tim Anderson, the Sox have one of the best leadoff players in baseball. All he did in the short postseason was get 3 hits in each of his 3 games -- 9 hits overall. He is still getting better. He was the highest ranked Sox player in the Top 100, and he's probably underrated. 11. In Eloy Jimenez, the Sox have a budding superstar with the bat, who will probably take over Abreu's role in the middle of the lineup as Jose eventually ages out. He's also got a winning personality, keeping everyone uplifted and loose. He's smiling all the time. 12. In Lucas Giolito, the Sox have a big-game pitcher who rises to the occasion. He may not win the Cy Young (though he may), but I wouldn't be afraid to start him heads up with any Cy Young or other pitcher in baseball. I would consider us no worse than even in any matchup. 13. In Luis Robert, the Sox have a budding superstar. Who knows how good he'll become over the next few years. But it's going to be fun to watch. 14. The Sox went 14-0 against lefty starters last year. That should terrify opposing managers who will have to try to juggle their pitching staffs to avoid using lefty starters and relievers. The Sox are a young, hungry team who got a taste last year and now are ready to dominate. They have skillful and savvy vets to help lead them, several guys who have been on World Series teams, and a HOF manager who has seen it all and knows how to manage when the pressure is on. I'm really glad the Sox didn't go out and repeat the Encarnacion and Gonzalez mistakes, but instead decided to roll with young players who need to play to get them where they need to be by the postseason. I don't want to watch some dubious veteran with no future on the Sox take ABs away from a younger player who is expected to be part of the team's core for the next 5-6 years. I happen to really like the choices the Sox made in the offseason. I don't know if the Sox are going to win the AL Pennant or World Series, but I believe we're going to win the AL Central by a relatively comfortable margin. There may be ups and downs during the season, but I'm not going to freak out about it. I'm just going to enjoy the Sox this year.

Jerry Reinsdorf to fans: Fuck You! Rick Hahn to fans: Fuck You! Steve Stone to fans: Fuck You! This is White Sox Baseball. I do agree the money isn’t necessarily the issue. The primary issue is the way Hahn has spent it during his tenure that has resulted in his abysmal record, even during the years the team actually “tried”.

The Cubs are televising 28 games while the Sox only six. Seems like a missed opportunity to create a buzz for our new and exciting team while the Cubs get so much more exposure.

Rick Hahn can bite me

He needs to spend less time on social media and more time exhaustively assessing all options for DH beyond internal ones if Vaughn is deemed to be at least a half-season away.

I'd take a microchip that let them monitor my different titer levels and boost more vaccine into me from their satellites.

3 quality starters with their 4th and 5th slots mostly being combination of trash and question marks. And they lost in the divisional series. Which speaks to this entire argument at hand. You’ve mocked anyone who has shown any sort of optimism for this team and if anyone projects over 85 wins for the Sox, they must be insane.....yet when I bring up the Yankees lack of depth on the mound and their projected win total for the year....the argument is “Well it’s the Yankees, so they’ll be good no matter what.” That’s a Swiss cheese position to take but you won’t back down because god forbid you ever answer for your shit takes.

It is so beyond exhausting and irritating that this apparently needs to be repeated over and over again. Some people just have blinders on and can't even entertain the idea that there are still a lot of potential issues. There seemingly is very little room with said fans for identifying, let alone discussing actual analytics that show real concern. Mainly the fact we overall still look like the same team as last year and ultimately that team failed, in a truncated season where there were numerous extra playoff spots. The biggest advantage they will have is a less competitive AL central. But surely those of you super optimistic fans know damn well you wouldn't be happy with merely winning a non competitive division, right?

It's possible to be super excited about the team (which I am) AND also upset that the 85 year old cheap fuck of an owner isn't capitalizing on this once in a possibly lifetime cheap roster by spending money & hiring his fossil drinking buddy to coach (which I am) The choice shouldn't have been: trust a young guy or sign a shaky veteran that will likely fail. It should have been: offer blank checks out to the top free agents that fill the couple real holes on the roster & use those young guys as depth (which we are extremely lacking on).

We have an all star at every position but RF for the next 5 years. And in some cases, arguably the best player in the league at said position. This is going to be an absolute juggernaut the likes the league has never seen before.

Welp, Rick Hahn just went to the shit list. Wish I could put him on ignore.

I am taking my shot with a bunch of these providers. Thank you. Congrats on the upcoming addition to the family.

I do wish RH would fly above this kind of stuff. Leave the puzzling, gratuitous anti-fan aggression to Stone, Jerry and Co.

My wife (pregnancy) was able to get an appt just now thru Walgreens. Hope you see this and can try your luck!

Not sure where to put this, but Sox brass is showing their contempt for their fanbase yet again by insulting our intelligence:

Excessive confidence in what we believe we know...inability to acknowledge the extent of our ignorance...overconfidence by illusory certainty. gee that sounds familiar. What is that, your autobiography?

The good thing about wilson is he can play behind terrible offensive lines. It would be incredible. Wilson would be idolized here. He could open up a steakhouse that only sold hot dogs with ketchup and fans would lineup around the block.

Wait!!!!! How is this possible?? How could the White Sox possibly have this much talent? Having more than any team in the American League? How can this be? If you read most of the comments on this forum . . . . Our owner is a total cheap ass who won't pay for talent. Our GM has no idea what he's doing. No other organization would ever want our GM. He screws up every trade, every one. He can't convince the owner to sign the necessary washed - up pitchers we need for depth. He has no idea how to assess and draft talent. We have no idea how to develop our talent. So there must me some kind of mistake. I know there must be a mistake because pretty much every other post on this forum tells me how worthless our management is.

Too many posters here project how they would handle things. Thing is, you don't become a pro athlete by being mentally weak or unable to work with people you don't necessarily like.

The problem with saying there’s a lack of evidence also is that there’s a lack of evidence that he isn’t ready, as we have really no idea how he looked in Schaumburg last year other than internal team statements that they liked what he was doing.

Thompson has the higher ceiling. He's a premium athlete at the position with a fastball in the mid 90's and a hard breaker. Dalquist has a 4 pitch mix and a much higher floor but we valued stuff and upside. Thompson is the better prospect right now.

It should be pointed out that Sale played most of his Sox career under the most laid back non confrontational manager possible in Ventura. It would be interesting to know if the jersey incident, the LaRoche nonsense he was involved in, or his locker room break in with the Royals would have occurred with a LaRussa type personality in the clubhouse. If nothing else, I think its safe to say that Sale proves that even if there is a clubhouse incident this year, it is possible that it may not be 100% TLR's fault, although it will be painted that way by some no matter what.

These players are adults, not petulant children. They'll be just fine.

? I'm not sure what part of this post is my favorite. Where you act like Hedge Funds will be held accountable for their wrong doings - Steve Cohen just bought a professional sports team with the 8 billion he obtained via illegal insider trading - or where you act like bigruss needs to provide you with hard evidence to support the idea that the market manipulators who are two of the worst people in the history of the financial industry in this country (Steve Cohen and Ken Griffin), two of the biggest crooks in modern American times, and then all he has to do is tip off the SEC who... **checks notes** ... have never even gotten into a court room with Cohen or Griffin despite their obvious illegal activities.... and he'll get 10% of the "fines." Your faith in the SEC is magical given that they spend 99% of their existence attacking little traders, and non-problem causers, and 1% doing nothing but saying very much. You claiming if it is there, it will be found is hilarious. The government literally had Steve Cohen's leading pharma/medical trader having hour+ long phone calls daily/weekly with the lead doctor of a Alzheimer's study/treatment that was in testing for a major pharma company; a company they had a major position on. Then the day before the studies results were to be released publicly at a conference, that same trader traveled to ann arbor michigan (where the doctor lived) and stopped by his house (phone records, receipts, all of it). After that meeting, the trader called Cohen, and that afternoon/following morning they moved out of their entire position before the doctor spoke at a conference where he had to declare the treatment did not succeed in trials (The doctor ironically enough was fired from his job at Michigan and fired as a consultant etc for his actions). They had the phone call made to Cohen right after the meeting; they had the sell calls put in to multiple different banks as to not set anything off; they had the phone calls nightly and weekly between trader and doctor (when no communication at all should have ever happened). What happened to Cohen? Nothing. That was one of many cases that led to him having to "close down" his first Fund which he was then allowed to open another one in 5 years. No actual charges were ever levied against Cohen either; just the fund. Certainly nothing criminal. You should probably stop trusting the SEC to actually hold incredibly wealthy funds/people accountable. Any by the way, everyone who works for Cohen is asked to do the same thing. Most big hedge funds are not operating on anything but illegal obtained information past company to company; or in citadels case, they get to front load all the robin hood buys/data because they pay for it; another thing that should be absolutely illegal.

The whole system needs an entire overhaul. Honestly, service time should be seven years but should start when a player plays his first MiLB game. Players should be getting to FA quicker. I know it's not great for the fans or ownership, but these players should be getting paid the biggest money when they are in their prime, not at 29-30 when they eventually hit the market.

I am going to completely agree with you. I will not get caught up in game threads or hung on pitches , this is the best team I have seen in a long time . Very excited about the young players and pitchers and how they handle things . Very bullish on the season and I will admit as I age I try to enjoy things more than being a bitter whitesox fan calling for the heads of people whether owners or managers or players. I think they did a nice job getting this team aligned and although they have A few gaps I believe if someone significant goes down with a year end they will go for getting someone if they are in it , of course this board will always protect their precious minor leaguers thinking all will come through. I am really going to enjoy and root for success.

The biggest limiting factor on the Sox success in 2021 will be the starting rotation. The 2nd biggest limiting factor is the health and strength of the bullpen. The 3rd biggest limiting factor is probably LF defense IMO. The offense will be good enough and could be historically great for the franchise if Robert, Eloy, and Moncada have big years while Eaton is healthy. If Hahn doesn't think Sox fans should be cynical after his offseason then he can go suck a dick. Certainly I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not betting on Lance Lynn being an ace, and I'm not betting on Keuchel being better than about 80% of his quality last year, and I'm not betting on Cease becoming a #3+ SP in 2021, and I'm not betting on Rodon doing shit other than missing games and being ineffectively wild while he's on the mound **or** finding the zone more with diminished stuff. Also, spending money on Hendriks isn't exciting at all to me. Not only is this very likely to turn into a shit contract, but he's replacing a guy whose numbers in 2020 were sick. Colome gave up basically nothing. Even though in people's minds they *think* Hendriks is a better player, it will actually be difficult for him to even equal Colome's 2020, much less better it. The pen is better with Crochet in it, but I'd argue that move is missing the forest for the trees and is a bad long-term decision. Outside of those 2 there have been no additions to the pen. The Sox are hanging their hopes on guys like Marshall and Foster being as good or better along with Bummer and Heuer continuing to be dominant. But a couple off-years from guys in the front of their pen and they could be in especially big trouble from an IP perspective if their #4 SP is a 4-5IP starter, their #5 is garbage, and Lopez is the 6th starter "mop-up" guy or "gasoline spreader" more appropriately. Knowing what we know now as far as what players signed for, if the Sox signed both Eaton and Pederson, and had Robert in CF with those other guys on the corner, with Engel in a platoon with Pederson and acting as the 4th OF, and with Leury as the 5th OF, they might have the best OF defense in baseball. But they're going to keep running Eloy out there so they certainly didn't address LF defense.

I just noticed this now, but if you go to MiLB.com and click on MiLBTV, and create an account, they are giving away a free MiLBTV preview which allows users to watch archived footage of 2019 MiLB games. So like, probably more than half of all of the Sox prospects you want to see are going to be on there for free. BTW this belongs in the main Sox thread because a bunch of current MLBers are on there. I just watched one of Robert's HRs off some junkballer in Charlotte.

I love the microchip argument. "I dont want Bill Gates to track me." They of course post this on their smart phone.

And JR’s budget is the walls .....

Stick to Colorado. I've been using it for the longest and haven't had any issues with games except for the Rockies. Sometimes leaving the country puts people in a bad spot so YMMV. Like I said though, I can help you next month take care of this.

I agree. It should bei different for college, HS or international players though. Make it 10 years for international, 9 years for HS and 7 for college or so. That would incentive teams to develope players quicker.

I don't know, that whole flood the earth thing was pretty bad ass.

Its not an issue of excessive confidence or ignorance its an issue of the FO telling the fan base "ok the rebuild years will be really hard and we won't spend at all but when the window opens we are all in to win a title, anything less will be a disappointment" and now the window is here, so yes people will be disappointed with merely an above average performance compared to the rest of the league. Thats not what was promised. I want what was promised. Spoiler: It wasn't 87 wins or merely an above average team. Its time to produce. I dont want to hear about how there is a mismatch between our expectations and expected outcomes based on statistical models. Our expectations are reasonable because that was the social contract that was entered into. That the ownership and/or FO may not have kept up their end of the bargain is hardly good reason to change expectations and in fact this would incentivize reprehensible conduct. I'm going to be beyond pissed if it turns out this is an 87 win team. That would be a disaster of biblical proportions.

That's actually a good point that I often forget -- the Shields deal was, at its core, a salary dump for SD. Therefore, he was presumably available for JUST the full contract. If the Sox actually believed he was good, they could have simply paid him and gave up a random 27 year old in AAA or whatever -- meaning they either (A) didn't ever believe he was the "ace" that they pretended to believe he was, and STILL gave up talent to get him, or (B) JR's purse strings were so tight that he wouldn't go higher than $8m (or whatever it was that they ended up paying) for a midseason trade acquisition to help put them over the top. Choice A suggests a poor understanding of how to build a contender, and B is more evidence that JR doesn't care about winning enough to own a team. Regardless, not only did they give up Tatis for a bad pitcher, they could have gotten the bad pitcher and KEPT Tatis by simply being willing to pay a bit more of his contract. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm done piling on this narrative because it just depresses people, including myself. But that was a good point that I wanted to expand on.

I don't like drafting catchers in the 1st round. It's such a demanding position the miss rate is just too high. I'd take a college catcher in the 3-7 range every year. The Arkansas catcher has a chance to be pretty good. The Tennessee guy too.

Yankees Projected wins: FG: 95 Off-shore Books: 95.5 BP: 97 Mean: 95.83 White Sox Projected Wins: FG: 87 Off-Shore Books: 91.5 BP: 83 Mean: 87.16

I find this part to be a bit ironic. For one, many in industry despise these big hedge funds who have basically found a loophole around insider trading and have exploited/manipulated the market in ways to benefit them which has directly effected other market players and cost them money. So if anything, the major players near the top have harmed 99% of those within industry which has led to animosity. Additionally, they give the entire industry a bad rap and a bad name; many are trying to make an honest living. Many didn't lobby for the profitization of the commodities market which directly led to starvation globally and immense issues for farmers in this country. Many didn't lobby to have things like mortgages turned into securities and then blocked and reblocked to turn subprime garbage into A graded securities. Many didn't lobby and push for the destruction of lending regulations that took advantage/exploited people into loans and etc they couldn't afford. The fact is, there are a lot of scum bags in industry, but the majority are people genuinely trying to make an honest living and the SEC/Governments reluctance to actually hold the worst of the worst (like Griffin and Cohen) accountable for the destruction of the industry has not only cost people below them lots of money but it's also given the industry in general a black eye. Instead, just like in '08, the SEC and government attempt to hold little people with little influence and support accountable as an example, as opposed to actually going after those whom have spent years manipulating every aspect of the market to the betterment of themselves. As for your second part, yeah the entire "complexity" thing is by design. There's nothing complex about 99% of the processes; it's the rhetoric and verbiage that are designed to confuse people and inflate the "difficulty" of what is being done. The SEC is a joke; certainly not some organization to be lauded for their crackdown on illegal activity that they never crack down on. All in all, no one should believe the government is going to do anything to any of these people; especially not after 2008 where they let the biggest fraudsters in the industry walk out of their buyouts with big bags of cash and zero accountability for bankrupting and making-homeless millions of Americans. If blatant predatory actions are no longer criminally illegal (fines don't deter given that that fines were much less than the profits made), then there's no reason for people to stop doing them. It's a damn shame, honestly.

Young players have the ability to get better and the White Sox are counting on that. Your point would be valid if there was no talent to come up. The Padres did not want to rely on youth so they got some veteran pitchers.

Grandal will catch up way more than this. North of 120 games.

How do you not see it that way? We legitimately only had two consistently good starters last year. The only addition this year was Lynn. Everyone else is a wildcard. What is it you aren't seeing?

I do believe preller liked tatis, but if he truly saw him as a star why didn't he offer him two millions and allowed the sox to get him for 700k which was the 30th highest signing bonus in 2015? Tatis was seen as a prospect but most had him around 25-30th best of his international class. The rise of tatis was just very unusual, because of the way his body developed. It is normal that a young kid gets stronger and improves his approach but he also got faster and more athletic which is an kinda unusual thing. Nobody in the industry saw that coming, maybe preller liked him but no way he thought he would become a mega star or otherwise tatis would have gotten 2+ mil.

I know you're trolling, but I genuinely hope you realize that this isn't what people are upset about. It isn't that you can't comment on someone's ability to handle a second language, it's that you don't do it out of the blue and for no reason. It's like calling someone fat and then getting defensive and saying "but it's true!" when there was no reason to even bring that up. But maybe that example will be lost on you since you probably wouldn't have an issue with that behavior

We shall see. But can you imagine "old school" Tony LaRussa being force-fed an inexperienced rookie at DH in a year he's expected to compete for the AL pennant? I can't. Now maybe if it's just the Cardinals' history, where they seemingly come up with a rookie impact (many not highly touted) player nearly every season, but that hasn't historically been the case with the White Sox farm system. You have to go from two decades ago in Rowand/Crede to Gordon Beckham/Viciedo and then all the way to TA and then the last 3-4 seasons of acquisitions and high draft picks to get any significantly impactful players in a given year. Heck, somehow Carlos Martinez's son became a near All-Star level hitter with them for a season or two after starting out with the White Sox.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-players-respond-to-kevin-mathers-service-time-comments-and-preview-upcoming-cba-fight/

I doubt owners will ever give up a year. It's just too valuable to them. I saw one proposal that changed the way service time is calculated. Rather than going by days like it currently is service time would be calculated by quaters. That way owners won't have to keep a player down for X amount of days before they could call him up and not lose that precious extra year. Imagine that. A team could actually field it's best team on opening day rather than (wink wink) waiting until a player magically improves his defense or baserunning in X amount of days. What a novel concept.

To stupid to argue with.

Here we go again with Mr. Know it All. Sorry pal, in order for something to be considered racist, it needs to target a specific characteristic of a race or discriminate against one. What Mather said could be considered xenophobic, but not racist. I thought you would know the difference since you seem to know everything about anything.