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Whatever they do it will turn out wrong.

Nailed it

Of course Keuchel is better at holding runners. Look at how much practice he got.

Says the guy that has posted about it twice in the last 6 hours. Beat it, you clown.

First rule of being a White Sox fan: Murphy was an optimist.

I read somewhere in the last day or so an article out of New York of the Yankees perhaps being interested in trading Joey Gallo this offseason. Similar to the Sox’ experience with Kimbrel, Gallo didn’t quite work out for them after the midseason trade as hoped. They also had bullpen struggles when Chapman sort of imploded this year. So trying to be creative and thinking of ways to solve the Kimbrel conundrum, I’m wonder if the Yankees would be interested in a one-for-one swap of Kimbrel for Gallo. Both have one year left before free agency (presuming the Sox pick up the option), and while Kimbrel does make more money than Gallo, the gap isn’t anything the Yankees can’t absorb. They get a closer who is seemingly a better bet to return to elite closer status than Chapman (his troubles began coincidentally after the sticky stuff rules came into place), we get a left-handed power hitting right fielder who plays good defense for at least a year. Seems he’d be an ideal stop gap measure until Cespedes arrives (who seemingly showed a lot of progress this year but probably needs another year of seasoning in the minors). It’s not the haul the Cubs got, but Kimbrel is now a one year rental. I don’t know. Just an idea I had.

The Bears may have well lost anyway, but it's really disgusting to see the Packers continually get 3-4 huge breaks from the refs every single game. Clear offsides not called, led to an interception in the end zone when it should have been 3rd and 5 and at worst a 45-50 yard FG attempt. Clear grabbing of the face mask by Aaron Rodgers not called, plus an unsportsmanlike penalty called on Bears, instead of 3rd and long Packers get 15 yards and first down and eventually score TD. Ticky-tack holding call on Bears while the Packers don't get flagged for holding once the entire game. Bears overcame it and scored TD but took an extra minute off the clock.

The biggest return would obviously come from trading Vaughn but he also is likely the player with the most future value so by trading him you would lose value that his trade return would need to bring back. I also agree that depth is good and injuries do happen but having Vaughn, Jose, sheets and burger on the same 25 man roster is costing the team in other areas and while sheets and burger have options they are too old and advanced to be stached in the minors, if they are 27-28 in 2 years their value is zero. That means some decisions likely have to be made. I don't think the sox should trade Vaughn, I think Vaughn can be similarly good as konerko and Jose at first and we don't know what the Sox have with sheets and burger

Everyone better get ready for an offseason of no spending. There is no way Jerry gives Hahn more money if he offers the QO as well as Kimbrel's option.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. I think that Rodon would likely accept the QO if offered. Maybe someone is willing to offer him 3/60 this off season (assuming the Sox havent made a similar offer). That said, if Rodon replicates this seasons results next year, he goes into free agency as a 30 year old with around 800 career innings with no draft pick compensation attached to him. Not offering the QO would mean losing a 5.0 WAR pitcher for nothing. Going for Stroman, Ray, Scherzer, etc. would be much more expensive and long term proposition. I think there are serious questions about whether the Sox can depend on Kopech to make starts in 2022 and it seems exceedingly unlikely that Crochet will be a starter. Making the wrong call on Rodon's health would be pretty catastrophic. The Sox now have some expensive players on the books in Abreu (19.6M), Lynn (18.5M), Grandal (18.2M), Keuchel (18M), Moncada (13.8M), and Hendricks (13.3M) all over the 10M threshold. The Sox also have an $16M option on Kimbrel to decide on. If the Sox pick up Kimbrel's option that puts them at $136M for Abreu, Lynn, Grandal, Keuchel, Moncada, Hendricks, Kimbrel, and Rodon. Factoring in TA (9.5M), Gio (8M give or take), Eloy (6.5M), and Robert the Sox are now at $166M. Picking up Hernandez's option, and bringing back ReyLo and Engel puts you at around $178M. The Sox would essentially have to run it back with the same squad in 2022, but would go into 2023 with Keuchel, Abreu, Rodon, and Kimbrel's money off the books. In a vacuum, I think the Rodon QO and the Kimbrel option would both be favorable for the Sox; however, selecting both would be a bold use of limited financial space in 2022. All of that being said. if the Sox believe that Rodon will be healthy in 2022, then you have to extend the QO. You simply cant get that upside for 18M, while also keeping the 2023 budget flexible.

Madrigal might've won the batting title if not for the injury the way he was hitting when injured . His last 75 AB's he hit like .355 . Madrigal's .305 is not that far off from the .319 Gurriel hit and won the batting title with . He can win one in the future if he stays healthy.

It's just our bad luck. Like trading for the top relief pitcher in the NL who shits the bed the rest of the season.

Well there goes our off-season budget. I kid I kid.

Tell that to the next part owner of the Chicago White Sox.

We can’t have Rodon at 18 million and Kimbrel at 16 million, both of those really cripple our payroll, I assume

If I’m running the team, I’d make both Sheets and Burger available in trade talks. Vaughn too but it would take a lot for me to move him. The Sox need to get more flexible with guys who can play multiple positions, especially guys who can fill in up the middle. It’s the weakest part of the org in my opinion.

Congratulations to the Chicago Sky for bringing hone Chicago’s first Championship in the 2020s. Joliet native and DePaul graduate Allie Quigley led the Sky with 26, in their 80-74 victory this afternoon. https://www.wnba.com/game/20211017/PHOCHI/ Cool that they televised all their games over the air this year, hope they do the same next year.

I think we need to pump the brakes on Sheets around here. It’s a good thing Mercedes didn’t have his good two weeks in September/October or we might be penciling him in to next year’s lineup.

Steve Stone dissects how good teams like the Astros take advantage of defensive lapses, with comments focused on Eloy and Grandal, including Grandal’s inability to block sliders in the dirt. He also called out the lack of fundamentals all season, and poor defensive catchers including the backups.

Consider this hypothetical… Throw out the Twins, Royals, Orioles, Rangers, and Angels out of the AL. Sox play the other 9 AL teams 18 games each for 162. What’s their record and where do the finish in the league? Until it’s 90 and they’re one of the top 3, they’ll never get to a World Series. So our 93-win team is ok, but not really a championship quality team yet.

It wont bother me if Houston wins. It feels better getting beat by a team going to the World Series.

The way I look at it, if he can repeat 2021 19 million is a bargain. He was worth 5 WAR for us which is just outstanding. Even with 3 WAR thats good right?

Worst comes to worst, we open with 6 starting pitchers and I'm fine with that.

I would like to see it offered, risk outweighs the loss of a TOR starter. If he doesnt accept we get a pick.

I agree with this. The Sox rotation, which was supposed to be a strength, has holes going into the off season. I think Cease has real potential, but he still has little experience and has to develop. Keuchel really lost it. Kopech was promoted to the major leagues with a huge fanfare, but needs to develop plenty himself. The Houston series exposed these problems and demonstrated that the White Sox are not a World Series contending team. The team has talent, but there has to be a good mixture of talent and some players regressed this year. I'm glad the Sox won their division, but I never expected 2021 to be their year. Now the FO has to respond.

And their missing their ace. I believe we beat them if they didn’t have McCullers.

I would be way more likely to give Rodon a QO than to pick up Kimbrel's option. Get rid of Kimbrel and Hernandez, that more than pays for Rodon even if he accepts. Boras clients rarely accept the QO, so I would definitely factor that in. Of course, I did not like the Kimbrel trade on the day it was made. (Or the Hernandez trade for that matter.) But it never occurred to me that it would turn out as bad as it turned out to be. Kimbrel leaves a bad taste in the mouth. They should be done with him.

I agree with this. If Andrew's trade value is still really high, and I suspect it is, I'd look in to moving him for a young controllable arm with TOR potential. You can go back to last year's rumor when Milwaukee supposedly wanted him to headline a deal for Burnes. Something like that, though obviously Burnes wouldn't be available now.

Not accepting it doesn't mean he isn't healthy. They might just not trust him to stay healthy.

We needed you in the playoffs, Jack. Please don't leave us again.

Who cares if Ron cheers for the Cubs? Why should any of us care?

You let Hernandez and Kimbrel go. That frees up some cash. The roster is pretty well set. I am crazy, I still this Eloy is a 40 Homer guy who brings a lot of energy and fun to the team. I still think Vaughn is what one scout described as Paul Konerko on steroids. I still think the best is yet to come from Yoan Moncada. I still think Luis Robert as great as he was wasn't 100 % healthy. I still think TA will be hungrier. I still think Dylan Cease will be a stud. I still think Giolito will be one of the better pitchers in baseball. I still think Lance Lynn will be Lance Lynn. I still think we are going to love Kopech. I still think Liam Hendriks is the best closer in baseball. Get everyone healthy, find a new 2B and perhaps RF, but I am fine putting Vaughn or Sheets out there and bringing in Engel late,spend the Kimbrel money on another pitcher or two, maybe trade Collins. Get a veteran back up who calls a good game. They are fairly cheap. I am not historically optimistic, but despite the playoff result, this team is pretty stacked. Some of the guys should get way better, and there are not a lot of candidates to fall off a cliff. Also make everyone take pilates classes for their hammys.

He was recovering from an injury that I believe was likely to sap into his power. At least until he can rebuild it in the offseason. Zero reason to doubt Eloy isn’t the guy we always though he was.

I honestly enjoyed this season more than any I can remember since 2005(06 was super fun until the swoon). It ended with massive disappointment but I went to four games this season with and without family, watched an incredible FOD game, met a lot of fun people along the way. I hope next season they are blessed with health luck and we can see this team take off.

If that's the crap we might get back in a deal (while still retaining some salary) just shoot me now. I know it's just one guy's opinion and all it takes is one GM/Manager combination to think they can turn him around to strike a good deal. However if this is the garbage we'd get back now, keep him. Hope with an off-season and Spring Training to get his head screwed on right, he could be productive. Otherwise just don't pick up the option and deal with basically giving away Madrigal and Heuer for the next 7-10 years.

Chicago Sky one win away from their first championship in franchise history.

Don’t you think it’s fair to only credit the Gastros for one and a half years of success?

Chaos. But guys this is a World Series crew, the best umps!!!

That's the type of call that really should get more tech in and less consistent human error out. Literally ruined about 6 months of genuinely interesting and pretty historic back-and-forth rivalry baseball and the biggest storyline of the entire season.

I am just going to say it. The White Sox will never win a World Series title with Tony LaRussa as their manager.

Here's to 2023.

To all of those who want to write off Vaughn after a bad last 22 games (because that's what it was - he had a .797 OPS as of August 19th) - Do you remember Moncada and Anderson took several hundred at bats to round into major league caliber hitters? Andrew Vaughn was amazing in 2021 all things considered. He was asked to play defense at three positions he'd never played and handled the bat just fine for a rookie without any minor league experience. He will be great in a couple years.

excellent post, I agree the biggest problem with the plan, and maybe it was a decent plan, we'll never know the best plan, but the problem was ditching the changeup. I never felt he had a feel for his stuff after the hamstring. Maybe that was the injury, maybe it was lack of usage, maybe it was both or something else or whatever. Post more.

It’s gonna be Kimbrel for Meadows isn’t it

Rick Hahn is not leaving. That is all.

In the back of my mind, if there really is any truth the to the idea that Kenny/Rick had one plan last off season, and then Jerry intervened with TLR, this could be the chance for either of them to leave for a "Promotion" and not arouse a higher than normal level of questions about why they left now. I have ZERO idea how either man felt about Tony being put into the mix by Jerry, or if either/both might be interested in the Mets job, but it is a footnote worth taking at this stage of the off season.

So what you are saying is that hopefully Rick Hahn starts the press conference by saying he is committed to staying with the ball club and taking them to the next level....which is what every mid major college basketball coach says right before taking their next job.

Didn't know where to post this so just bought back up this thread. Hell of an accomplishment for the Sky. What they're doing is similar to that 8th seed Kings team in hockey that wound up winning it all. Hopefully they finish it off.

Nick Madrigal hits a homer