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Brian Bannister had an interesting interview discussion about him. One thing that caught my attention was that one of the things that makes him so good is hie elite extension. Very few pitchers have that. In fact anyone who has it profiles as a reliever because starters with it are always injured. He used the example of Glasnow. Physiologically it makes sense. Muscles have a very small range where they can generate enough force to be useful. Its called the length-tension relationship. If the muscle tries to work at a length that is too short or too long they cant generate enough force so cramps and injuries are more common. If he is working at a longer muscle length with the tremendous extension, it could cause more injuries. Thus why pitchers with elite extension have difficulty with a starters load.

Neat. Sure seems the org thinks he's a bullpen arm. Should be electric in that role. Lord knows the bullpen needs help. I'll still hope he transitions into a starter a la Crochet though. 🥲

The Bears are a train wreck and yet they're about 1 trillion times better run than the White Sox. They even had their own Tony La Russa in Bill Polian, but they didn't actually give the Dinosaur Polian any power. The White Sox are legitimately one of the three worst run professional organizations in sports. I'm now even more confused that you're claiming to be someone who won't tolerate ineptitude and will simply stop watching yet you're a huge White Sox supporter.

The W-L record isn’t something to get excited about. But if we’re being fair to the OP, there were multiple posters here saying the team would be worse than last year despite plenty of data points that objectively proved how hard that would be. Along those lines, many of those same posters called the addition of Tauchman & Slater dumb since they were “garbage” vets who were blocking big time prospects like Dominic Fletcher, Oscar Colas, Zack DeLoach, and board favorite Alexander Canario (owner of a 64 wRC+ with the Pirates). Now, should vilehoopster be this aggressive regarding these two points? Hell no, these are not hills worth dying on and demanding apologies over given how bad the team / org remains at the moment. However, it is nice to occasionally hold the overly negative posters accountable because they often bring down the quality of the board by relentlessly whining about everything and refusing to have objective conversations.

Honest question. Since you don’t seem interested in even slight progress, what do you get out of coming to this board?

This team is 29th in the MLB. Only the Rockies being on pace to shatter the futility record of the Sox last year saves them from being the worst team in the MLB. Again. They have the 26th ranked offense. This team is still on pace to break 100 losses? If these are things to get excited or happy about, you need more things in your life to get excited and happy about. This continues to be an embarrassment of a sports organization. Wake me up when they're contending for the division more than once a decade.

From the same people who brought you the Last Comiskey documentary comes a new one that will be released on You Tube in a few weeks. It's called Torborg and runs over 90 minutes. I'll have the You Tube link for everyone when it is released to the general public. This past weekend Jeff's family and friends had a celebration of his life in New Jersey and they were the first to see it. Included in the documentary will be comments from a number of baseball people including Nolan Ryan, Ozzie Guillen, Scott Fletcher, Wayne Edwards, broadcaster Gary Thorne, Dave Gallagher, Jerry Reuss, Matt Merullo, Dan Evans, broadcaster Tom Shaer, broadcaster John Rooney, Lance Johnson, Donn Pall, Scott Radinsky, Jack McDowell, Phil Bradley and others. I've seen both the trailer and the full documentary because of my participation and I can tell you it is a wonderful retrospective of his life. The world lost a good man. https://www.southsidesox.com/2025/1/20/24347853/the-right-man-for-the-right-franchise-jeff-torborg-chicago-white-sox-dies-age-83

The sample size of players with Taylor's specific combination of height and extension is so small as to probably not be particularly predictive on either role or injury risk But I remember reading this relatively nerdy back and forth on it in ST: https://x.com/sunshinevvn/status/1898863172695781868

I was totally against this but Bannister did a great job elaborating on their plan. It makes sense.

We were a 41 win team last year. We are on pace for 54. We are WAY behind and we are 100% not spending big in the off season. We are not close in any way, shape, or form.

Here's what i want to see: Dont hold his use for saves. Dont be Tony L. Use him in big moments and let him gain experience on all situations, because closer is not a position, and the depth of the various situations are what matter in the end And, maybe moreso next year-- use him like Oakland used Hendriks. Oakland ended up with a better record than the otherwise wouldve and that's because they used Hendriks multiple innings and put games away after 7. When the Sox got Hendriks it was like we kept him in a glass case for saves that never came. And what percent of our payroll was tied up in that

Or it could be they are just being fair to Grant Taylor. They have stated that in order to assess if a prospect is ready they want them not only to be just good, they want them be extremely good. I forget the exact wording. Something about breaking down the door where your performance is so good it makes all the sense in the world to be called up. You want to reward high performance within the organization. You don't deny them the opportunity to improve the quality of their lives just because starting his clock now isn't conducive to the MLB team needing a closer. I'm thinking they don't put him into a closer role right away. He'll probably get his feet wet throwing an inning or 2 as the 1st man out of the pen after the starter departs. Bannister said they aren't ruling him out as a starter so it's very likely that trying to establish him as an elite closer in month and half then trading him would be pretty ridiculous.

I wonder if they are trying to show the league he can be a light out closer so they can move him at the deadline? I dont see any upside in starting his clock now since we aren't going to be winning anything this year and prolly not next year, so there's no need for a closer, so I don't see what they are trying to accomplish unless they're showing him off to contending teams.

Are they marginally better? Sure. Significantly better? Their record says otherwise. Will Tauchman or Slater bring back anything notable in trade? Unlikely. Are these sentiments repeated ad nauseam or have been irrefutably disproven to necessitate an apology thread? Not even remotely. Not being historically bad two years in a row is hardly reason for a victory lap.

Because there isn't a whole lot to hang your hat on if you are trying to sell positives for the 2025 White Sox. If were talking about the future: Meidroth, Vargas and Shane Smith have been the only worthwhile things on this team so far. Teel has looked really good in his debut, but so did Quero and he has been pretty bad for the last month now. Well see how it goes. Other than that, the offense is a bunch of sub 1-2WAR guys or negative guys, the bullpen stinks and eventually the SP is going to get worse either by performance or load management. We also don't really have much in terms of valuable trade chips.

Tauchmann's OPS dropped 100 points in a week and he's a career dead average hitter who will be 35 in a October. I have no idea why people are crowing so hard about that signing. Congrats, you got a month of pixie dust from a veteran on a team careening towards 110 losses.

"Very positive" about the direction. You honestly have to be completely delusional to feel "very positive" after the worst season in MLB history followed up by a season with a 106 loss pace in which you're the worst team in your league. I get called an optimist with the White Sox in my personal circle, and while I'm surrounded by sports curmudgeons, I still consider myself pretty optimistic. I like Meidroth (bet on him to win ROY! given his steamer projections, but sadly Jacob Wilson is a machine), I LIKED Vargas when he was bad so I still like Vargas, and Teel seems like he'll be a nice piece but still TBD. I'm also probably one of the biggest Sosa fans alive (not just on the board) and I think the kid can be an average regular if you give him the AB's and opportunity. On the pitching side, after Shane Smith the White Sox have nothing. And while I like the guys above, I don't think any of them have a 6-8 WAR ceiling. Compared to last year when they had like two big leaguers on the roster, is it an improvement? Sure! Most teams field entire rosters of big league players though, and the Sox aren't even half way to that benchmark. Edit: I think some of the optimism comes from people who just watch White Sox baseball. Their baseline is White Sox baseball. As someone who consumes a lot of baseball from many other teams year round, it's much more apparent that the Sox aren't something to be optimistic about. They need EVERYTHING to go right and every prospect to hit just to be competitive. The odds of that are next to zero.

Most of me thinks he definitely hasn’t earned it but a little bit of me thinks he needs a clean slate (statistically) mentally. Being promoted to the MLB kinda gives him that. And if he’s terrible, he can just be sent down again.

So they are slightly better than the team that set the all time record for losses. Rejoice Sox fans, and those that said they are the same or worse are such fools. I think most on here figured they would win more than 41 games. It's not really a high bar. Calling people out because of a 6 game hot streak, which was nice to see, is absurd. This team sucks.

White Sox fans simply got USED in the leverage game between the two sides. A real owner like Ishbia in Phoenix would figure out a way to reimburse all those who bought antennas in order to continue following a 41-121 team.

James McCann still blows away Tauchman and Slater but yeah, Hahn mostly signed veteran bums that never had that magical season.

The rest of the AL is not way better.

Six pitchers with TJS this season alone, potentially two more. So much for injury prevention eh?

I literally said I didn’t agree with the OP’s aggressiveness, but the quality of this board is beyond fucking garbage right now. Competent discussion can not be had because people are so pissed off and just s%*# on everything regardless of merit. My post wasn’t about being right, but rather calling a spade a spade. If you enjoy what this place has become, then more power to you. I know for me, when the Sox reach the point of providing zero joy whatsoever I take a break from the team and this site. I basically stopped posting for a month because the team was so insufferable. Wish others would do the same. This place should never be a safe space free of criticism do the team, but it also shouldn’t be a total whine fest to the point where baseball discussion can’t be had.

Cannon, Burke and Martin aren't the foundation of anything. No rotation is above average with those 3 in it.

Doesn't sound like he had much control of players then. He has been acquiring a very different type of player. Either that or he learned what wasn't working.

I dunno, I feel like Smith, Cannon, Burke, and Martin provide the foundation for a solid rotation. Hopefully Schultz, Thorpe, and Smith are ready next year and hopefully Ishbia approves a couple solid free agent signings to fill out the rotation. Very possible to have an average to above average rotation starting next season even without Taylor in it.

Certainly not when he was Director of Player Development or Assistant GM.

With a number of kids being called up it is important at the very least psychologically that you can't keep blowing late leads. It has happened seven times this year the Sox took a lead into the 7th inning or later and lost the game. Yes they aren't going anywhere this year (or next year) but you need to finally start establishing some sort of winning momentum/ winning culture in the organization moving forward. If Taylor can help win some games by stabilizing the back end of an awful, atrocious bullpen then he needs to get the chance. Better to see what happens with him now with not as much on the line than say two/three years from now if the Sox are a contender and the bullpen is still a mess.

As we learned with Sale that was ruined forever

Good shout. Bannister's always a great listen.

Maybe if they start making subtle changes to his delivery but the way he throws now he has no chance at starting. I'm really looking forward to him tearing up the league out of the pen.

He'll be electric out of the pen, but I don't want that to cut off his starting prospects longer term. All good if it's a Crochet situation.

Hope this is the end of Bryce.

Yea I really don't know how you take him off SS. He's playing an above average MLB SS. There is no guarantee Colson is even in the same ballpark at SS. I'd give Colson probably another month to cook down in AAA and let Meidroth continue to play SS everyday in Chicago for now.

I'm 100% in agreement with this. Although, at this point how do you take Meidroth off SS? He has looked really good, unless some underlying metric says otherwise.

With the lack of monetary resources that JR provides the only way to have a consistent competitive team is through the draft an development. This takes time. They could try to shortcut it like Hahn did. He did field a competitive team that made the playoffs. However once those players either got hurt or became ineffective there were no other players behind them.

He was on their Area Codes Team in high school. Threy know him well as a Wisconsin prep. I'm not a fan of taking a second baseman though and he hasn't done well with wood bats.

FWIW, nothing new in here outside of White Sox brass publicly acknowledging they still think they can make it work.

Let's not sell our boys short, 106 losses is still historically bad. It's just not the most historically bad year like last year.

Gross, and undoubtedly true.

Good point. The sad thing there are no prospects being blocked. It's the lack of prospects. That creates the "fans can't have nice things" always trading today for tomorrow because you can't draft. The other scary part is can they develop? I'm not wowed by pitching prospects since they help win one every 5 unless you have Ohtani. I want to see them hit on a Witt or Thomas and in reality Montgomery is not that impact player.

that makes me think of only the White Sox.

He’s looked and performed much better since the Arizona trip, but unfortunately keeps getting knocked out for a few days bc of hbp’s. I’d like to see him get on a nice uninterrupted run before calling him up here to make sure the adjustments he made have really settled in.

WE ARE NO LONGER THE WORST TEAM ALL TIME, ONLY ONE OF THE WORST EVER!!! HOW ARE YOU NOT CRACKING OPEN CHAMPAGNE??? I AM THE GREATEST FAN OF ALL TIME! The gaslighting is too much.

I'm so confused by the chest pumping. The Sox have twice as many losses as wins and the worst record in the AL.

If this was 2016/17 all over again, that would be one thing. We've already watched this show play out. Now we're watching it with even fewer young potential superstars and one of the lowest payrolls in the majors as the base (after Robert is traded/dumped), they'll be below the Marlins even (ofc Miami is trying hard to dump their own big contract in Alcantara despite his sky-high ERA). And then the stadium's another decade older as well...although that's FAR from the biggest issue at present, despite the numerous threads on the subject.

Forgive me for being snarky in this post but PLEASE, PLEASE stop with the Sox are moving to Nashville crap. It has been pointed out time and time again why economically it doesn't make sense both from a White Sox standpoint and from a MLB position. Plus Ishbia's comments yesterday should put to rest any of the "moving" talk. Regarding your question NASHVILLE'S MAYOR said no money is available for any stadium deals because they spent it all on the Titans new stadium. Sure there's a "chance" the Sox could move to Nashville, there's also a "chance" I could win the lottery, there's a "chance" I'll be asked to do a few White Sox broadcasts and there's a chance I could gain 20 MPH on my fastball and get a second chance at baseball. You seem to be worrying about things just to worry. With respect you need to drop this and stop bringing it up. Again sorry for the way I posted this but this is pure utter unadulterated BS.

Cool for air rifles, bad for batting averages. 🤢

Jesus Christ. You guys great again yet?