Cease To Padres per Passan

[SoCalChiSox]

If it's NYM.....Drew Gilbert, Ronny Mauricio and Mike Vasil line up pretty well value wise for Cease.

[ron883]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:11 PM, Tony said:

This does NOT prove your point and most replies in that thread were saying the same thing to you..

 

Believe it or not, I miss SS2K5. Hope he is well. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by ron883

[DirtySox]

19 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If it's NYM.....Drew Gilbert, Ronny Mauricio and Mike Vasil line up pretty well value wise for Cease.

Boy would I like Jett Williams.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

47 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If it's NYM.....Drew Gilbert, Ronny Mauricio and Mike Vasil line up pretty well value wise for Cease.

Ew

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

This is where you go full Rays.  Gotta trade him for 3-4 SP on the cusp and 2 years away.  
 

It opens a huge hole but we need guys knocking on the door consistently.  Keep trading them when they have about 2 years left.  

I like this post very much. Rays may not have ever won a World Series but they do have a strategy for having good teams on a very small budget.

However I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of the guys they traded ,who they got back, the level they were at , and when they started making an impact with the Rays.

It all starts with scouting drafting and player development and everything that it entails.

We've often seen how others teams staffs for these things dwarf the number of people the Sox have in those positions.

There's no indication that Getz has been allowed to go full Rays. They'd have to do a heck of a lot more re: hiring staff. We also know JR rather pay for poor to mid MLB players than invest in youth. But it is better if he can even go partial Rays. But again still need a lot more developmental people.

[Jerksticks]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I like this post very much. Rays may not have ever won a World Series but they do have a strategy for having good teams on a very small budget.

However I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of the guys they traded ,who they got back, the level they were at , and when they started making an impact with the Rays.

It all starts with scouting drafting and player development and everything that it entails.

We've often seen how others teams staffs for these things dwarf the number of people the Sox have in those positions.

There's no indication that Getz has been allowed to go full Rays. They'd have to do a heck of a lot more re: hiring staff. We also know JR rather pay for poor to mid MLB players than invest in youth. But it is better if he can even go partial Rays. But again still need a lot more developmental people.

Totally.  Would love to see that analysis too.  But you figure if you’re trading good players always at the 2-years-left mark, you’re going to get back some amount more than 1.  Trading 2 years for 12 or 18 years probably needs to be the way.  
 

If you’re scouting we’ll, doesn’t that have to eventually lead to overflowing surplus?  

And then since we actually aren’t the Rays…we can fill plenty of holes with money in ways they can’t.  
 

But this rewarding our young prospects with $50M can’t happen.  Gotta keep them hungry, gotta stay shrewd.  
 

And why the hell don’t we just offer triple the salaries for smart exec guys?  Money talks.  Let’s poach 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jerksticks

[Bob Sacamano]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I like this post very much. Rays may not have ever won a World Series but they do have a strategy for having good teams on a very small budget.

However I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of the guys they traded ,who they got back, the level they were at , and when they started making an impact with the Rays.

It all starts with scouting drafting and player development and everything that it entails.

We've often seen how others teams staffs for these things dwarf the number of people the Sox have in those positions.

There's no indication that Getz has been allowed to go full Rays. They'd have to do a heck of a lot more re: hiring staff. We also know JR rather pay for poor to mid MLB players than invest in youth. But it is better if he can even go partial Rays. But again still need a lot more developmental people.

Largely due to big analytics department

[Rey21]

Only the Orioles it’s gotta be the Orioles 

[kitekrazy]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:36 PM, Jerksticks said:

This is where you go full Rays.  Gotta trade him for 3-4 SP on the cusp and 2 years away.  
 

It opens a huge hole but we need guys knocking on the door consistently.  Keep trading them when they have about 2 years left.  

Not possible.   Rays have a superior system and not trying to be the new Royals.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Any combo of 2 of Painter, Abel, Crawford, and Aidan Miller from the Phillies + a lesser prospect would be a nice deal for the Sox. And I think the Phillies make a lot of sense as they are on the cusp of a WS and Cease represents a way to get a TOR SP without spending a lot of $ so they can spend elsewhere. 

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Any combo of 2 of Painter, Abel, Crawford, and Aidan Miller from the Phillies + a lesser prospect would be a nice deal for the Sox. And I think the Phillies make a lot of sense as they are on the cusp of a WS and Cease represents a way to get a TOR SP without spending a lot of $ so they can spend elsewhere. 

The thing with Phillies is their rotation is mostly set. The thing to watch is if they can keep Nola, or go FA instead. But I could see Dombrowski pull a trigger rather than rely on young pitching.

[Chick Mercedes]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

The thing with Phillies is their rotation is mostly set. The thing to watch is if they can keep Nola, or go FA instead. But I could see Dombrowski pull a trigger rather than rely on young pitching.

It may be a wise move for the Sox to stay away from Dombrowski.

[Quin]

10 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

It may be a wise move for the Sox to stay away from Dombrowski.

We have Hawk to thank for that.

[SoCalChiSox]

Not a Cease rumor per se....but that Bartolo guy claims Colas is being discussed as a possible add on to Eloy/Moncada  talks and they are open to selling high on Santos.

Does this mean Hjerstad the Savage is being targeted for RF?

I'm not sure adding Colas will make someone eat Moncada's money even if it's just for one year. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[oldsox]

The Phils sure do a much better job of drafting than the White Sox.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Not a Cease rumor per se....but that Bartolo guy claims Colas is being discussed as a possible add on to Eloy/Moncada  talks and they are open to selling high on Santos.

Does this mean Hjerstad the Savage is being targeted for RF?

I'm not sure adding Colas will make someone eat Moncada's money even if it's just for one year. 

 

That Bartolo guy is a fraud in all honesty, but I’m sure everyone on the major league roster is available for the right price.  What I don’t get is who would want to acquire Eloy & Colas in the same package (don’t think Moncada is tradable without eating money).

I do hope they’re pursing Kjerstad in a Cease trade though.  Damn would it be nice to have a young LH power hitter to build this lineup around along with Montgomery.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That Bartolo guy is a fraud in all honesty, but I’m sure everyone on the major league roster is available for the right price.  What I don’t get is who would want to acquire Eloy & Colas in the same package (don’t think Moncada is tradable without eating money).

I do hope they’re pursing Kjerstad in a Cease trade though.  Damn would it be nice to have a young LH power hitter to build this lineup around along with Montgomery.

The values are roughly equal on baseball trade values...who says no?

To BAL: Robert, Cease.

To CWS: Rodriguez, Cowser, Basallo, Kjerstad, Ortiz.

 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

The values are roughly equal on baseball trade values...who says no?

To BAL: Robert, Cease.

To CWS: Rodriguez, Cowser, Basallo, Kjerstad, Ortiz.

 

Getz would be putting his job on the line right away...and some of those kids like Grayson and Kjerstad would have to contribute right away, especially if Robert and Cease are in 2023 and 22 (Cease) form respectively.

Edited November 18, 2023 by caulfield12

[Pale Sox]

12 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

The values are roughly equal on baseball trade values...who says no?

To BAL: Robert, Cease.

To CWS: Rodriguez, Cowser, Basallo, Kjerstad, Ortiz.

 

I can’t imagine packaging them together would maximize value.

I think you could reasonably ask for basallo, kjerstad, Ortiz just for cease, with minor adjustments being made here or there. 
 

robert is worth more than Rodriguez and cowser. 

[SoCalChiSox]

2 minutes ago, Pale Sox said:

I can’t imagine packaging them together would maximize value.

I think you could reasonably ask for basallo, kjerstad, Ortiz just for cease, with minor adjustments being made here or there. 
 

robert is worth more than Rodriguez and cowser. 

I dont think BAL will give up 3 Top 100s for Cease....2 Top 100s yes but 3 of them for two years of Cease....no I don't think so. 

[Pale Sox]

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I dont think BAL will give up 3 Top 100s for Cease....2 Top 100s yes but 3 of them for two years of Cease....no I don't think so. 

Yeah that’s fine, not an exact science there just a baseline ask. 
 

just saying in general pairing guys together usually doesn’t max out return value. It makes some sense at a trade deadline for expiring contracts when you have that deadline to work against, but that’s not the case here. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Pale Sox

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I dont think BAL will give up 3 Top 100s for Cease....2 Top 100s yes but 3 of them for two years of Cease....no I don't think so. 

I don’t think Bal will give up 2 top 100s for Cease.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Not a Cease rumor per se....but that Bartolo guy claims Colas is being discussed as a possible add on to Eloy/Moncada  talks and they are open to selling high on Santos.

Does this mean Hjerstad the Savage is being targeted for RF?

I'm not sure adding Colas will make someone eat Moncada's money even if it's just for one year. 

 

Selling High on Santos? Didn’t he and the season with an elbow injury?

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don’t think Bal will give up 2 top 100s for Cease.

You don’t think Baltimore specifically will or just don’t think he’s worth that?

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You don’t think Baltimore specifically will or just don’t think he’s worth that?

Right now I don’t think news worth that, I think his value right now is 1 top 100 guy and 1-2 lower value guys. The velocity drop and the hard hit rate this year should look like red flags to any team acquiring him - if he’s a 3.9 ERA pitcher for 2 years while throwing a bunch of innings, that’s useful, but it’s not worth 2 top 100 prospects with this many options on the FA and trade market.

If a strong deal wasn’t there at the deadline last year, he’s got to be worth less right now based on his second half, the extra options available right now, and the less control.

Maybe in Feb, if someone missed out on everything they might get desperate and overpay, but not right now.