MLB 2021-2 off season thread

[Balta1701 5,227]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

“Negative value Kimbrel”

“Not quite as active across the board trade market”

[caulfield12 4,076]

23 minutes ago, bmags said:

“Negative value Kimbrel”

Why would being forced to pay Segura or god forbid Gregorious be a positive value, compared to simply having $15 million free to allocate however they wanted?

It seems pretty apparent they perceive fair market value production at 2B (in this current landscape) as closer to $5.5-$6.0 million,  rather than paying almost three times that to get (arguably) 1 additional util of fWAR.

Adam Frazier is another good example, as a 2ish fWAR “All-Star” player at an expected $7.5 million salary…that got quite a mediocre minimal return back.  And he possesses positional versatility as well as hitting LH.

[ShoeLessRob 1,588]

Shoulda denied his contract, traded for Frazier or signed Escobar. 

[Y2Jimmy0 2,689]

19 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No one thinks the Sox will add no more players, jfc.

The thought is they'll add shit players that they hope to strike gold with... you know, like they've done the past 97 million years.

This isn't true. 

11 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

What an infuriating time to be a Sox fan. They didn’t have any desire to spend money this off-season. Seems like they were banking on moving Kimbrel to fill one of their holes, but if that doesn’t happen I think they’re going to stay status quo. 

This isn't either. 

[poppysox 2,158]

As I understand this Kimbrel situation we could have paid out 1 million and not picked up the 16 million option.  That would have left 15 million to do anything the organization would like including keeping it.  I think it is obvious the FO is of the opinion they can receive more than 15 million in trade value.  They might be wrong but that is the only explanation that makes sense.  They could have filled 2nd base with a competent player for less than 15 million so I think a big picture trade must be in the works.  I see the Hahn speak of using him ourselves as just posturing.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run 7,233]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. 

This isn't either. 

How can something not be true when it hasn't happened? Who knew you'd start carrying water for white sox leadership this off season.

Saying the sox will add shit players instead of high end free agent targets (that you said they were after) somehow isn't true yet they haven't added any of those targets. Amazing

Edited December 2, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ShoeLessRob 1,588]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. 

This isn't either. 

I guess we’ll see? I’m not as optimistic as you.

[Y2Jimmy0 2,689]

48 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How can something not be true when it hasn't happened? Who knew you'd start carrying water for white sox leadership this off season.

Saying the sox will add shit players instead of high end free agent targets (that you said they were after) somehow isn't true yet they haven't added any of those targets. Amazing

Do you think Kendall Graveman is a shit player? Hendriks? Lynn? How about Yasmani Grandal? Stop being ridiculous. 

[Snopek 336]

59 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How can something not be true when it hasn't happened? Who knew you'd start carrying water for white sox leadership this off season.

Saying the sox will add shit players instead of high end free agent targets (that you said they were after) somehow isn't true yet they haven't added any of those targets. Amazing

Them adding shit players isn't true because they haven't added shit players yet. Unless you're deciding that Leury is the starting 2B. In that case, still not a shit player, but a shit decision.

[Bob Sacamano 2,914]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Apparently this is the 7th different contract he has signed with the Red Sox.

[Bob Sacamano 2,914]

According to this, Schwarber is looking for a 3 year/$60 mill deal (wasn't sure where to put it). Makes sense he would wait out the negotations thought to see if NL (hopefully) adds the DH.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/marlins-notes-schwarber-castellanos-marte-pina-gomes-stallings.html

[ChiSox59 4,964]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

According to this, Schwarber is looking for a 3 year/$60 mill deal (wasn't sure where to put it). Makes sense he would wait out the negotations thought to see if NL (hopefully) adds the DH.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/marlins-notes-schwarber-castellanos-marte-pina-gomes-stallings.html

PASS!  Sox need a serious roster overhaul via trade before Schwarber makes a lick of sense. 

[southsider2k5 11,627]

 

[caulfield12 4,076]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

KW/White Sox Don’t Always Get Their Man

 

A couple of months ago, in breaking down where the Twins' 2021 season went wrong, President of Baseball Operations Derek Falvey offered this assessment of the pitching staff he assembled in concert with Thad Levine and other key decisionmakers:

"Our pitching in aggregate, early on, guys didn't throw the ball. … When you're talking about the one-year pitching market that's in that range of cost, there's a lot of outcomes there, and sometimes, they do line up that way without getting great outcomes. I would say that we have to come back and evaluate that because we didn't hit on those for sure. Those guys didn't pitch as well as we thought they could have."

J.A. Happ and Matt Shoemaker were one-year deal guys who delivered a 6.77 and 8.06 ERA, respectively, for a combined $10 million — an average of $5 million

.…

As I talked about on Thursday's Daily Delivery podcast, Bundy has upside.

He finished ninth in the Cy Young voting in the shortened 2020 season. But in his other three most recent seasons, he posted ERAs of 5.45, 4.79 and — just last year — 6.06.

The Twins seem inclined to believe they can either fix Bundy or that the pitcher they are getting is magically the one who was very good in 11 starts two seasons ago and not the one who largely struggled in his other 74 starts since the start of 2018.

"Our hope is that we can get him healthy and pitching, and we can see a lot more of the 2020 version of Dylan over the course of a full season," Falvey said on Wednesday.

They can hope. But hope is not a plan. Maybe it will work out, and certainly this isn't the final pitching move the Twins will make even if it's the last one for a while.

But for now, we're left to wonder: Did they learn anything from 2021?

mrand@startribune.com 612-673-7564

 

“No need to read the comments, here is what they will say:
Pohlads are cheap. (JR is cheap)
The front office are stat nerds, not real baseball men. (Well, I’m not sure about stat nerds, just nerds.)
They pretend to make offers for top players to save face while low balling them. (See Parkman)
They signed Buxton because they had to, but what they need is pitching, pitching, pitching. (See adding Kimbrel but not addressing RF.)
Another last place finish for the Twins. (Well, not going that far, lol.)
They will never win anything unless they fire everybody and kidnap Garrett Cole.” (LoL)

 

Don't worry, they have had discussions with every good pitcher on the market!

🙄

 

And likely made offers low enough to guarantee they won’t sign them.

 

I still believe at heart we are closest to a combination of Twins and Mariners fans. We lack the organizational efficiency, gritty underdog spirit and small market sizes of TB, Oakland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5 11,627]

 

[pcq 1,139]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:28 AM, ChiSox59 said:

PASS!  Sox need a serious roster overhaul via trade before Schwarber makes a lick of sense. 

No more DHs cripes. 

[Sarava 519]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:23 AM, Bob Sacamano said:

According to this, Schwarber is looking for a 3 year/$60 mill deal (wasn't sure where to put it). Makes sense he would wait out the negotations thought to see if NL (hopefully) adds the DH.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/marlins-notes-schwarber-castellanos-marte-pina-gomes-stallings.html

His bat would fit beautifully in to the Sox lineup. Probably better than anyone else that is left out there as an option. And he does have a cannon of an arm. Just not sure he has the range to play adequate defense out there.

[soxfan49 2,470]

On 12/3/2021 at 3:06 PM, caulfield12 said:

KW/White Sox Don’t Always Get Their Man

 

A couple of months ago, in breaking down where the Twins' 2021 season went wrong, President of Baseball Operations Derek Falvey offered this assessment of the pitching staff he assembled in concert with Thad Levine and other key decisionmakers:

"Our pitching in aggregate, early on, guys didn't throw the ball. … When you're talking about the one-year pitching market that's in that range of cost, there's a lot of outcomes there, and sometimes, they do line up that way without getting great outcomes. I would say that we have to come back and evaluate that because we didn't hit on those for sure. Those guys didn't pitch as well as we thought they could have."

J.A. Happ and Matt Shoemaker were one-year deal guys who delivered a 6.77 and 8.06 ERA, respectively, for a combined $10 million — an average of $5 million

.…

As I talked about on Thursday's Daily Delivery podcast, Bundy has upside.

He finished ninth in the Cy Young voting in the shortened 2020 season. But in his other three most recent seasons, he posted ERAs of 5.45, 4.79 and — just last year — 6.06.

The Twins seem inclined to believe they can either fix Bundy or that the pitcher they are getting is magically the one who was very good in 11 starts two seasons ago and not the one who largely struggled in his other 74 starts since the start of 2018.

"Our hope is that we can get him healthy and pitching, and we can see a lot more of the 2020 version of Dylan over the course of a full season," Falvey said on Wednesday.

They can hope. But hope is not a plan. Maybe it will work out, and certainly this isn't the final pitching move the Twins will make even if it's the last one for a while.

But for now, we're left to wonder: Did they learn anything from 2021?

mrand@startribune.com 612-673-7564

 

“No need to read the comments, here is what they will say:
Pohlads are cheap. (JR is cheap)
The front office are stat nerds, not real baseball men. (Well, I’m not sure about stat nerds, just nerds.)
They pretend to make offers for top players to save face while low balling them. (See Parkman)
They signed Buxton because they had to, but what they need is pitching, pitching, pitching. (See adding Kimbrel but not addressing RF.)
Another last place finish for the Twins. (Well, not going that far, lol.)
They will never win anything unless they fire everybody and kidnap Garrett Cole.” (LoL)

 

Don't worry, they have had discussions with every good pitcher on the market!

🙄

 

And likely made offers low enough to guarantee they won’t sign them.

 

I still believe at heart we are closest to a combination of Twins and Mariners fans. We lack the organizational efficiency, gritty underdog spirit and small market sizes of TB, Oakland, Milwaukee, Cleveland, etc.

 

What the fuck does all of this mean

[SoCalChiSox 669]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:14 AM, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. 

This isn't either. 

Why couldn't they at least move Kimbrel before the lockout, Jimmy? 

[Kyyle23 4,489]

9 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

What the fuck does all of this mean

 

[caulfield12 4,076]

It means we better not sign a cheap starter at under $6 million and expect a repeat of 2021 Rodon and Lynn…as they were paid a total of $11.5 million for a whopping 9.1 fWAR.

It was an occurrence that’s usually only once or twice a decade with the White Sox, that a FA or acquired pitcher puts up those kind of numbers.

Edited December 6, 2021 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men 2,281]

2007 World Series Champion (1-0, 3.38 ERA) Daisuke Matsuzaka retired this weekend.

 

[striker 24]

Funny how everyone has said that GMs could still negotiate trades during the lockout but the rumors went dark. Are they under the radar? Are agents primary sources of rumors?

[Kyyle23 4,489]

5 minutes ago, striker said:

Funny how everyone has said that GMs could still negotiate trades during the lockout but the rumors went dark. Are they under the radar? Are agents primary sources of rumors?

Who said this?  And even if they are negotiating in the background, none of this could get out, right?

[fathom 11,073]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Who said this?  And even if they are negotiating in the background, none of this could get out, right?

Jesse Rogers was reporting it, but then after the lockout started said he was wrong