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I feel bad for whoever sits next to you in the office. The Bears are up 16 against a good Vikings team and all you can do is repeat ad nauseam how bad Mitch is. Like my god, do you ever shut up?

While Maddon's tendencies to get cute with his lineup and playing guys out of position annoy me, two things: 1) He'd have the DH again 2) If the choice is Ricky or Maddon I take Maddon every single time.

No offense, but that's nonsense.

As the season is about over thanks to everyone for their participation this year. If you have read parts one and two on our year and 40 man, I want to reemphasize a couple things. Our plate discipline was atrocious. We obviously have Robert and Madrigal on the way but a lot of our other prospects are returning from significant injuries. Our pitching staff needs help. RF and DH were league worst. Aside from Robert, our logjam of outfield prospects didn't distinguish themselves and don't look to provide help next year. By WAR, we are 15-20 WAR from contending and frankly some BABIP metrics could portend some regression for Moncada, Anderson, McCann so you might need a bit more. If Moncada could trim another 40-50 ks that cold offset and Anderson might return some walks as I think he is extra aggressive with a batting title on the line. Expectation #1 Abreu is brought back. Betting 2 -3 years. Hopefully year 3 is option. I bet it will be more dollars than we like. Hopefully DH's more. My thoughts. I don't expect us to get Cole. He is a SoCal guy, many teams in the hunt including Angels who I would make the favorite unless the Yankees really want him. He is probably the only free agent I would forfeit the draft pick and its associated pool dollars as I think we need to keep rebuilding. I also don't think we have the prospect depth to make a major acquisition unless it involves taking a bad contract back and using our payroll flexibility as several teams have budget concerns. Unfortunately, I don't see our front office being/allowed to be that creative. Target #1 Grandal. He just makes so much sense for our team. He has stated he wants to set the market for future players so he isn't coming cheap and a lot of teams will want him. His WAR values are very different on Baseball Reference 1.4-3.3 range last few years and FanGraphs 4.1-5.8. He is very consistent, avg about 15% better bat than league average. Solid glove and great plate discipline walking around 10%. Switch hits and has been used all through the Brewers lineup 1-6. Turned down 4 years 60 million last year. I would start with 3-60 with 24-20-16 payout and add in a 16 million fourth year option. He would probably play everyday for us. McCann would also catch and they both would be fresher and hopefully more productive sharing the load. When not catching, Grandal would DH or play some first. If you got him, the RF addition is able to be lower in the lineup and there are not a lot of great FA options out there. Target #2 Brett Gardner. Haven't seen him mentioned but hear me out. First, I hope to have a home grown RF in 2021-22. Hopefully one of ours develops from the multitude of options. The Yankees have a bunch of outfielders, some dollar concerns and I could see Gardner leaving. He is 36 but has been amazingly durable at 140ish games per year. Playing mainly center for Yankees with positive defensive metrics(one of few available with a good glove helping young pitchers). The last 7 years has WAR ranges of 2.8-4.9 and currently at 4.1 this year. A professional with playoff experience who would be useful for our youngsters as another mentor. His home/road splits are equal so not a product of Yankee stadium. Another guy with around a 10% walk rate and strikes out less than 20%. Again that plate discipline would help make pitchers work and hitting left handed balances lineup better. Because of Grandal you could hit him lower in the order. I think a two year deal could get him and don't think it would be super expensive12-15 annually? Plan B Nimmo? Popular pick on board but will cost prospects. Saw a rumor Mets looking for CF. Mets have budget issues. Would/could you take Jed Lowrie at 10 million for one year to lessen your prospect cost? LOL Yolmer and Engel and lesser prospect for Nimmo and Lowrie. Other Plan B's for Gardner all have warts. Calhoun could be let go especially if Angels get Cole. More strikeouts at about 25% and lower average(Dunn light?) but decent glove and walks 10%. Zobrist 39, terrible spring good OBP switch hits. Dickerson 31 good bat but never played RF and has broken foot. Puig no draft pick issue, right handed, pretty consistent , I guess ok. Jay Bruce? older expensive but wouldn't cost much prospect wise. Okay 2019 WAR for our RF and DH is -2.3 so Grandal and Gardner good for 7ish so 9WAR improvement! Fun Fact: Our starting pitchers generated 5.8 WAR. Giolitto has 5.8 WAR. What we have trotted out in the 4/5 slots is truly epic. The rebuild will be over when no one types this is the future: Covey -1.2 ,Detwiler -.5 , Santanna -.3, Banuelos -.4, Santiago -.4, Fulmer -.4 and Despaigne -.3 Totalling -3.5. Cease was -.1 so hopefully if he improves you gain a couple WAR there. Kopech something positive but I wouldn't hand either a automatic job. Could they regain a year of control on Kopech by keeping him down a month out of Chicago cold? I mention this because having reasonable pitchers could gain enough to put you in contention. Our bullpen ranked 6th and Herrera seems to be getting healthy. If he is his normal you could gain 2 WAR. I point all this out because I doubt we sign a big time pitcher to a big time contract. Cole is clearly elite and most of the rest have questions. The history of long term pitching contracts is not great on the team end. I would try to strike quickly before bigger dollar teams who lose out on "name" FA pivot back. A qualifying offer drops my interest and those that have them except Cole may have a slower market. Also starting pitchers are pitching fewer innings all the time. Maybe you should grow and develop pitchers continually and never give the big contract unless they are really special, kind of like running backs in the NFL. Target #3 Jake Odorizzi RHP, 30. Not a huge innings guy 170ish. 3.5 WAR this year but probably a 2 WAR guy. 2-3 years? 12-14? Kick the tires on Kuechel. Bring back Nova? Only six players beat his 2 WAR on this years team. His totals are what we traded for just bad first half colors perception of his season. Target #4 Another starter, possible swing guy or a veteran you could deal if our pitchers are healthy/performing at break. Rodon should return around the break though will he start or relieve? Well there you have it. Not sexy but realistic. Our best chance to have an ace is to develop one. This projects to gain the 15-20 WAR for us to contend. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to read this and for your involvement throughout the year. Nice to know I don't suffer alone.

In all my years here, I don’t recall a single poster who could single handedly bring down the quality of the board this much. Like even Greg’s insanity results in a good chuckle once in a while. You’d think the non-stop whining would get tiring, but alas he keeps on chugging.

We get it, you don't like Trubisky. He's not even in this game and you can't stop whining about him.

So fucking stupid

God I hope this is true. If they fire Ricky, I would consider that a hell of an offseason.

I’m rooting for the Brewers to win, and the Sox and Angels to lose. That would make eleven 90+ game winners and losers, including four 100+ game winners and losers. Make MLB look bad as much as possible.

No way. We’re either 10 or 11, depending on how the Angels do. If they win, we get 10 no matter what. Don’t lose 90, win this game and go out on a high note.

An L here with Detwiler getting shelled but a 4-4 from Timmy and homers from Moncada Eloy and Collins.

Madrigal and Vaughn aren't getting traded. Especially when their payroll is under 50 million after arb is considered and the window just cracked.

And then it was the End. Let’s strive mightily to win the final game of the year and feel good through the off season. Go Sox in 2020

Greg, I know sarcasm is difficult to decipher over text, and I struggle with it as well. If you know Ron as a poster as well as you should, he's being 100% facetious there. He's just ball busting.

This is the way to go. Nostalgia doesn't win pennants.

^^^^^ Sale is gone and is never coming back. Get over it people. I'm more than happy with Moncada. Anything that Kopech and Basabe give is just a bonus.

You explain it by Semien was better overall. Tim's defense hurt his WAR as did his inability to walk. Semien was better in just about everything except batting average. Try looking at stats instead of making general assumptions. Despite Tim's batting average being higher by 50 points Semien OBP was better . Also Semien was on the field much more than Tim so he accumulated more WAR. For this year Semien was the more valuable player and was key in Oakland getting to the playoffs again despite the lowest payroll in baseball. Tim is 3 years younger so perhaps looking ahead more people may prefer Anderson but not this year. The clear obvious better player this year was Semien. Marcus Semien might even get a few MVP votes.

I love King Timmy Anderson and am not bagging on him. Just making an attempt to bag on the advanced stat folks who probably don't care Jose Abreu led the AL in RBIs. Way to go Jose. But in trying to say I don't care about advanced stats much, Marcus Semien had 8.2 WAR this year; Timmy had 3.9 WAR. Would an Oakland fan be right in saying, "you keep your Tim Anderson; we want Marcus Semien whose WAR is so much greater than your Anderson." I would say probably 10 out of 10 baseball fans would take Anderson over Semien. So how do you explain this WAR thing, folks?

Preach

Elway gotta go, Broncos just have been abysmal

It’s annoying, but I’m not going to complain too much. Yoan/Tim/Eloy are the main reasons why this team has been winning lately, and I’d rather have them playing well resulting in the Sox having a worse draft pick opposed to them struggling resulting in a better pick.

Pineiro is money.

Rebuild isn't over at all, First they have to spend the money and they may decide it's better to spend it over the next 2 off seasons considering so much would have to go right in this off season to even think of making the playoffs. In my head you are looking at at least 5 name player signings to even imagine the playoffs next year and that's the minimal amount. Then they have to actually perform well and not be your useless Sox free agents.

Not mad that young guys are stepping up big time. We can still get a really good player at 11.

Does anybody feel a lil empty when this game is over... I know its stupid but...

I can’t remember the last time I felt this optimistic on the last day of the season. I can’t wait until spring training. I just want our team to be relevant again.

Absolutely right. If you go under the assumption than every free agent will sign with the highest bidder (not unreasonable), the chances that the Sox get the 7 or 8 players they need (2 SP, 3 RP, C, DH, RF) are pretty remote. There will be too many teams competing with us, thereby driving up the price. A trade or 2 involving prospects may need to be made. P.S. I hope we learned our lesson with the Machado fiasco and quit the crap with incentives when other teams are offering guaranteed money.

If Trubisky is going to miss serious time, I’d take Eli for some crappy late draft pick.

If I were running a contending team and I needed one more SP, I would trade Thompson for Wheeler.

Believe it when I see it If they go, why keep Ricky? Dump 'em all

Please retire the 83’s after today. It was a good run, but it’s a new decade of winning starting next year.

Some of us think its absolute insanity to believe that they'll actually pay up for anyone other than dumpster diving. In other words, I'l believe it when it happens.

There's not much out there for RF. Bumgarner is the only top LHP available for FA, and I have him going to the Angels or staying in SF. I don't trust them to spend money and I think they'd rather trade Vaughn or Madrigal than spend money in free agency.

OK, fine, considering this thread is titled "A Realistic Offseason", I'LL BITE but it's all about TOTAL roster construction, not just one position: PREMISE : this team has way more more payroll available that most people understand. Enough that they need to be thinking WAY beyond friggin' Avi Garcia or Yolmer Sanchez. ASSUMPTION : agree or disagree, they're going to re-sign Abreu. I'm convinced of this. I think we need to accept it. ASSUMPTION : plug the holes on offense, while upgrading the defense, but emphasize starting pitching. ASSUMPTION : Robert and Madrigal up mid-April ASSUMPTION : RF defense doesn't suck PAYROLL (spitballing here, anyone feel free to nitpick but I don't think I'm WAY off base here): $15M base (all they have is TA, Herrara, and Eloy) $20M for Arb and league minimum players (Arb is largely McCann and Colome) $12M Abreu (I'm thinking/hoping they'll do 2+1option, 12/10/opt) ------------ that's $47M, hypothetically add: $10 Gardner for RF (I like BamaDoc's idea, but pick equiv if you have better RF idea) $15M Grandal $12M Moose (2+opt, move Jose to DH, Moose can be 1B, along w/ Mendick can hold 2B until Madrigal and can provide 3B, DH, left-handed bench) $6M bullpen (because... bullpen - you better sign a body or two) $32M for 2 starters (take your pick based on this budget - I'm thinking one #2 plus an inning eater) -------------- That works out to be $122M payroll which is roughly the Twins payroll. If you disagree with my #'s and think it's $130+, fine, they can afford it. ROSTER ASSUMPTIONS: - Abreu is primary DH - with 26 roster spots you can afford to carry someone like Engel, if can at least hit .245 - McCann/Collins rotate between C/DH/1B - If Abreu needs to pay 1B a couple times x week to keep him happy, fine, whatever You've added: - Robert, Madrigal, Moose, Gardner, Grandal, to Moncada, TA, Abreu, and Eloy. Hella lineup. - 3x LH bat - 3x veterans, all with playoff experience - 3x guys with avg to above ave OBP - 2 starters - bullpen support - You've upgraded, defensively at 1B/RF/C AND ....: - you've upgraded 1B, C, and RF WITHOUT BLOCKING LONG TERM Sheets/Vaughn, Collins, or Basabe/Rutherford/Adolfo/Walker That's way better than Yolmer and Avi, and has nothing to do with chasing JDM or, Cole. Now .... do I think this organization can pull this off .....? But this is what's possible. We need to dream bigger than Avi or Yolmer.

It appears Madrigal can draw some walks with his .400 OBP in both AA and AAA this year. That is something this teams bad, even if he OBPs .350 next year that would be huge. If healthy this team should have good pop next year adding in Robert, an actual RF, and a 1B/DH.

Honestly I have no idea when Andrew will get here. He needs to dominate A ball before I start making plans for him in Chicago. Another area we might disagree on (not sure) is Nick Madigral. I think he is so opposite of many players in baseball these days, and teams really need guys like him. Watch the Cubs and how their offense gets shutdown so easily because every guy on their team swings for the fences every friggin at-bat. I think/hope he's the kind of guy that can help us have a more consistent offense in the years ahead.

Then why not trade Madrigal, or Robert, or Cease, or Kopech? Why is it always Vaughn? I'd much rather trade Madrigal if I had to choose between the two

I miss Sale, but I would 10/10 do the exact trade over and never look back

Because it’s Saturday night and apparently everyone is drinking

For a hard-used, injured pitcher who just hit 30 and has a gargantuan contract? And trade 2 pitchers (including their best low-minors pitching prospect) when they are woefully short of pitchers. No thanks.

Best days are behind him Grab me a Cole/Strasburg or a Wheeler with a Hamels/Miley

Thanks Greg. As the post was long, didn't mention a couple other things I would do. Robert and Madrigal arriving allow Leury to become the super utility. I would offer Yolmer 3 yrs 10-12 million and if you can't work out a deal trade/nontender him. Leury has to work on fixing the so/w issues. For a guy with little power a 138/20 so/w ratio is unacceptable. If you get to late innings and use him in left with Robert cf, Gardner rf , that would actually give you some decent defense. Credit to him for a healthier year and their positional versatility could allow you to carry Collins as a third catcher LH DH/1B. Maybe even free Yermin! There are a host of bullpen pitchers at AAA and lower who I think will allow you to piece together a decent bullpen. Colome and Herrera will cost about 18 million next year so I don't know if another expensive arm is added. It would be nice if Burdi, Hamilton, or Burr could reestablish their ceilings. Few mention that with relievers having to face 3 batters or the end of an inning how it will impact LOOGYs. Bummer has no split issues so lefties like him will have even higher value. Left handed batters may be a little better off if they aren't facing LOOGYs anymore which is another reason I wish to add some LH bats.

I’m excited to see what shakes out in Boston. If they are prepared to shed salary OR signal that mookie will not be re-signed opens a lot of possibilities. I don’t love the Gardner idea, but I’d take him over Calhoun. I wonder what Solers availability may be. With ownership switch, decent control, it would be an interesting fill of RF.

Saying it was a failure is incorrect, but I think saying that it was completely unimpressive and cheap is arguable. A team with top 3 resources loses on purpose for years, kris Bryant falls into their lap, then they outlay almost half a billion dollars in one year to buy a World Series in a down year competitively in baseball, everyone on the pitching staff has a career year, the Indians are missing their best players, and they barely squeak one out with prospects. Then they spend another half billion to sustain playoff appearances, dwarfing all other teams in spending, draft like complete crap outside of Bryant, and now find themselves in a mess. Yawn. If your strategy is simply to outspend everybody else, it’s not that cool.

God i wish they'd bring in a new, respectable staff (Sciosia, Madden, Girardi) Highly doubt Renteria is an MLB manager if he's not on Sox payroll right now

This. Why would somebody fall on the sword for a shitty record in a rebuilding year when many core pieces played well?

Was this really an awful year? Moncada, Timmy, & Giolito will combine for ~15 WAR. Eloy showed signed of becoming a dominant hitter. Bummer established himself a legit, left-handed setup man. Cease got 70+ major league innings. McCann looks like he can part of the catching mix going forward. Honestly, outside of all the injuries and Lopez regressing, there isn’t much to be that disappointed about this year. Who really cares if our record sucked because of a bunch of guys who won’t be back next year? The young core more or less took the necessary steps forward and that’s all that matters.

Usually an NFL team rules a city.

We're not in competition with the Cubs, we're in competition with the Twins and Cleveland. As ever, Chicago is not a Cubs or Sox city, it's a Bears city.