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Why the fuck would anyone wanna trade all that for Marquez? What did I miss? Am I ignorant and he's actually an elite starter? Even for Darvish, all that is a ridiculous overpay. What is with all these ridiculous Madrigal, Cease++ trade proposals lately? Jesus. These guys are our future.

There are two sides to most arguments...protest or protest but not during something we hold sacred like the anthem, rally for a pro police demonstration or call the police bullies, support a tough love prison policy or advocate for leniency....I remember back in the day we could actually discuss these things and intellectually understand the other side. Now we call one side of the argument "racists" and then smugly walk away. "Racist" used to be the worst thing you could call someone...now it just means "the half of the population that disagrees with me". We are stumbling towards the abyss.

This has become such a played out phrase.

Why doesn’t McCann get shit on the way Grandal does when he drops pop ups or gets called for multiple catcher’s interferences?

Apparently we reached the part of the season where people are already drinking heavily. It shall henceforth be know as the "TLR phase".

I hope this thread is deleted by the time I wake up tomorrow.

Philosophical musings aside, the bottom line is that if the man our team hired to be it's manager has a long standing reputation of disagreeing with many people of color on the issues most important to them, then this hire is bad for your team culture, off-putting to many fans, a detriment to your free agency dealings, and bad for your business. Yeah free agents will sign for the most money in a lot of cases, but oh by the way, outbidding the rest of the league isn't how this team has operated. Maybe things will be fine but don't ignore that you could have helped this team be in a better position in so many ways by not hiring this guy.

TLR may or may not be a racist. It's well known he is a douche bag.

You seem upset.

I just googled "Tony LaRussa time traveler" 428,000 results. Hopefully he uses that skill to help the Sox.

You're crazy. James McCann has never made a mistake in his life

YourWhatHurts? My head.

You lost me with Bruce Levine.....

Gant didn't accuse LaRussa of racism or cite any racist conduct. He claimed several black players including himself didn't like him, from which it was inferred TLR is racist. There is a difference there. His actual behavioral complaints had to do with things like making out lineups. But his claims weren't corroborated by other alleged players and Gant ended up apologizing.

If Giolito doesn’t go back with Katz and sticks with Coop, is he still hot garbage? I am guessing yes, and I am guessing Lopez and Cease not moving forward finally convinced the Sox Coop’s time had passed. I do like that Katz had his 3 HS studs working on different things. He isn’t a one size fits all guy. It still remains to be seen if he is capable of being a MLB pitching coach, but the leap had to be made.

Everything sucks.

Ron doesn't want us talking about Jose's MVP.

Who the fuck cares?

I will say it's nice that the "irrationally hated by Soxtalk" player is no longer Yoan Moncada, but some of the Grandal hate is genuinely hilarious. There was one post a few weeks ago suggesting that the starting pitchers had literal fights over not having to throw to him

It doesn't fucking matter what we think

Bummer is an elite set-up man. You don't need that kind of talent to pitch 1 clean inning. A closer just needs to be a good pitcher, with stones (Colome e.g.). Not sure of the fascination with Marquez; yes he's a good pitcher. I sense some wishcasting that he'll suddenly be elite once he leaves Colorado and the price appears to be set at that level. Doubtful. For a pitcher trade, I'd look at Musgrove. He has AL experience, he's been solid with Pittsburgh and his price would be very reasonable. Well it should be and if it isn't, then move on.

EXACTLY! Did we suffer through a rebuild to acquire elite, blue chip prospects, only to sell low on them, just because they didn’t light the world on fire right off the bat (literally)? For now, Madrigal, Cease, and Vaughn should be untouchables due to their huge ceilings. Period. We can acquire that which we need in the starting rotation and in right field via free agency by just spending some cash. Let these wonderful prospects build up some value before we start packaging them all up in the kind of trade proposals being put forth here.

I love stereotypes filled Boomer posts. It just amazes me that people get this far into adulthood yet have no idea what communism and socialism actually are.

I've read a lot of your posts. I'm thinking you should write AOC and maybe begin a dialogue with her cause she seems to be intent on attacking some of the issues you address. I don't like AOC at all, but she seems intent on attacking some of these college student loan/minimum wage for all Americans issues. Maybe keep after the government to pass a plan to relax your student loans. I do know those who major in certain majors are wasting their money and college should be ashamed to be offering these majors. If high schools are not college prep, they should be and high schools should be helping kids assess their academic paths to ensure the best possible chances at meaningful and profitable work, too. Our society unfortunately needs work in a lot of areas. Peace to you, Jack.

/forum

Cease has never even pitched a full season at the MLB level. This pandemic year was supposed to the be the first. You do not even expect a young SP to be good until it is at least his second MLB full season. The Sox should be nowhere near the point of giving up on Cease. They gave up on their pitching coach, which is what they should have done.

It isn't one action, or even a couple here. It is a history, and it is one that isn't coming from fans, it is coming from people he played for. But when you consistently come down again things that primarily go against a specific race or minorities in general, it shouldn't be a surprise. In fact Ron Gant publicly calling out TLR happened in 1999, so as much as the current reflex is pretend being called a racist in 2020 is meaningless for some reason, this isn't just a product of our modern political environment. Tony was doing this long before the President gave people like him some cover.

Man the surface is being scraped here. No one has mentioned Ron Gant flat out calling TLR a racist. Also haven't seen the Kaepernik stuff mentioned, where he not only went after his anthem stance, but personally went after his activism, I haven't seen Adam Jones mentioned. I haven't seen TLR attending racist rallies, supporting prison camps in Arizona and being anti-BLM mentioned. I know there are others I am forgetting here, but this a pattern over decades.

He didn't like players kneeling. So the snow flakes of the world assume he's wearing a white hood in his free time.

I think this was the wrong hire for many reasons, but we fans are stuck with it. If there was any issue where the White Sox organization would be indifferent to fan opinion, this is it. We can only hope that the team has a good off-season and somehow things work out. But I am not looking forward to LaRussa pacing the dugout.

It has, you are either unaware or choose to ignore it. A Google search of "Tony LaRussa racist" comes up with 446,000 results. Ron Gant, Ozzie Smith, Royce Clayton, Brian Jordan. "You do the math. Something's not right there." La Russa banned Ozzie Smith from the Saint Louis clubhouse as manager. Ozzie Smith truly is a "Legit" First Ballot Hall of Famer, but unlike Tony, Ozzie drives sober, so no need to flash his HOF ring during DUI arrests like "Jerry's Guy". Also, how many managers feel the need to deny being a racist at their introductory press conference, despite the fact Tony was prepped for weeks and was not even asked if he was a racist. LaRussa's performance and responses reminded me of a dying Governor George Wallace in Four Little Girls. Wallace referred to Eddie Holcey, his male Black nurse/caregiver, as his best friend. Eddie looked at Wallace with an expression of WTF?! The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Tony LaRussa, sincerely committed to restoring the WHITE in Chicago White Sox.

It's literally defamatory. I hope he takes this site to court the mods are completely out of control they are supposed to moderating garbage like this not posting it. I'll take it a step further there has been no evidence upto this point he is racist none. Not allowing showboating and holding players to a certain standard is not racist. Wanting Americans to respect the flag and anthem isn't racist. In fact he has been extremely hard on players like Rasmus shows he doesn't have two standards. You may disagree with his politics as does the mod but you don't get to smear someone as racist for it. He's been in the game for decades if he was legitimately racist it would have came out by now.

Why do we care. F them. We have our own crazy issues

I can't either

I can’t

You people do not obviously consider defense at all. And offensively it's already pretty close. Vazquez is way better than Grandal.

Well there’s very little margin for error when the frugal owner operates as he does. Doesn’t play at top of free agent market, doesn’t spend on 16 year old international talent, doesn’t spend money on prep players in round 1, etc. Fuck Jerry Reinsdorf. Nobody should feel bad for him.

Time to stop beating the same dead horse, yea or nay?

Schins is so bad he makes Not Cishek and Al’s Beef look like Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams

What's the batting value on a walk off bomb?

Vazquez’s best offensive season was in a 60 game pandemic fueled season in which he put up a wRC+ of 115. Meanwhile, Grandal has a career wRC+ of 118 across nine seasons. Saying this is all about framing is beyond fucking ridiculous.

I can't take any analysis seriously when they spell catcher wrong.

The Sox aren’t trading Grandal. He is one of the best catchers in the game and if we trade him, you can kiss our chances goodbye for signing any top free agents.

It's weird man, I don't get it.

I know I don't come on this board much anymore, but is there really a subset of fans that don't like Grandal? I'm so confused. He's a slam dunk top 3 catcher in the game. How is this a real thing?

I get Grandal can be frustrating player at times, but the hate he gets on this board is astounding at times.

And never will be

Christian Vazquez is not, and never has been, better than Yasmani Grandal.

In what world is Christian Vazquez better than Grandal? I’m gonna need this explained to me. That’s absurd.

I don't foresee a lot of group hugs. He will expect respect without necessarily earning it. It could affect team performance. Right now he seems to be in hiding.