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But could you imagine how popular the Sox would become with teen girls if they made this trade?

I'd bet a fairly large sum of money that Vaughn is up before the Super 2 deadline.

All the Vaughn trade talk 0n here was ridiculous. Hahn wasn’t going to trade another potential great hitter after the Tatis debacle. I think he signs an extension before game one. Hope it happens

You'd be correct if the trade made sense, at all, at the time. Unfortunately James Shields was a bad idea even then. He was one year into his joke of a free agent deal, already 35 years old and coming off a year where he pitched over 200 innings and somehow only produced 0.8 fWAR. At the time of the deal, he had an ERA over 4 in the best pitcher's park of the last two decades. I HATED that trade the moment it was made, and I had no idea who Tatis was. It was the type of trade that, for a team trying to contend, wasn't even worth the roster spot they gave him LET ALONE any kind of lottery ticket going the other way.

That'd be a huge problem if Rick is afraid to trade away a guy because the Tatis deal was botched. I don't think that's the case but if it is, not good. It was a debacle. Every single statistic that was available would tell you Shields was regressing big time and that he was basically done. Obviously Tatis has ended up about 8 billion times better than anyone could have possibly imagined but trading anybody with any talent for Shields at that point was an awful, awful idea.

I mean, we could have just taken on Shields entire contract and not thrown in an athletic LatAm signee.

I think we already have the pieces. I hope you like 105 wins cuz that’s what you’re about to see. This team would piss all over 2005

Craig Biggio

Reports indicate Sheets has been adjusting to OF nicely. Wouldn't it be great if he turned into a legit corner OF'er ?

Lopez was just sent to the IL with whiplash.

I think they thought he was BPA. Lots of folks at the time hyped him as the best/smartest college player they'd ever seen. I don't think they drafted based on need - IIRC Moncada was still thought of as our primary 2b at the time, and it's not like our outfield was "full." He was above Kelenic in every mock I saw.

Nobody drafts for need and nobody knows BPA because then you would always sign him (except for pool money play). I think they saw madrigal as the best combination of ceiling and floor. Obviously he wasn't the highest ceiling guy but maybe they saw his 50th percentile outcome as the best.

That's not happening this time around. The Sox want a championship and need him to DH and spell Abreu at 1B the first two months of the season. They also need Vaughn to get his feet wet so that by around July or August, he can be established and ready for the stretch run.

Off lopez.

I expect Jose to be the opening day 1B and I expect Vaughn to be in the minors until Super 2 passes.

I made one of these for a school science fair as a kid using quart milk cartons and 4 small mirrors. I forget how old I was . Probably 10 or so but I don't remember if it actually worked because I couldn't line up the mirrors properly or cut them down to size to get the angles right to make it work . It worked in theory but the execution was lacking .

That seems premature. He didn’t even know he had it, like most people.

And I just have to repeat....The Tatis trade was not a debacle...it was putting a lottery ticket in a birthday card for someone at work and it turns out to be the winning powerball. You sure look stupid after the fact but at the time it was a lark.

Unless Vaughn ends up being capable at 3B or RF, he'd have to put up a ridiculous OPS at a 1B/DH to have anywhere near the value of Tatis. At this point it's too late to find another DH for this season, but earlier in the offseason, I'd have been willing to part with him for a top tier SP with 3+ years of control.

I'd still much rather trade him but even I have admitted that this LaVine is faaaar different than the one I've seen in a Bulls uniform and I mean on both ends of the floor. His efficiency, defense, etc. have all been outstanding. I've given credit where credit has been due for him in case you missed it. I still don't like the shit he does at times on the court but I can not get on what he's done this season as a scorer. I've never questioned LaVine's work ethic.

Nah, I don't think so. The Cubs knew what they were giving up, they got a WAY better player back, and while Eloy is already good, he hasn't reached Tatis level yet. Our deal was a prospect who, if we knew how good he was, would never have been in any trade at all, for a player in Shields that every team (and publication, tbh) knew was garbage except the White Sox, and the prospect has now blossomed into someone who has already put up 6.5 fWAR in 143 games. I appreciate the attempt at positivity, though.

‘Meh’ would have been a massive upgrade from Shields

Because it's a very stupid idea that can directly kill people when there isn't highly effective treatment available.

Vaughn never was going to be traded anyway. Teams very rarely trade a top5 overall pick before he reaches the majors unless he flops in the minors and just gets dumped. Sure if the Indians would have offered Justin Bieber maybe the sox would have done it but that never was realistic. In the large majority of cases such a high pick will reach the majors for the club that drafted him unless he is very bad in the minors.

*Too Stop the act. It's old and transparent. The more you say this the more obvious it is you just can't handle the argument in the first place. Only reason to respond with garbage like this is to be an asshole. You're weak. (And what I'm saying is pretty well established, anyway)

Brilliant words by Branch. Still...it seems like the 2013-16 Sox were the team counting on luck...Sale and Quintana and if we can just make the playoffs we could make a run. The 2021 team has been built methodically and the off season seemed to be a part of the plan. I like where the team is at and you know who else is counting on a little luck? The Dodgers...for ten years they've had one of the highest payrolls, one of the best teams in baseball and one of the best farm clubs...last 8 years averaging 98 wins, went to the playoffs 8 times and won one world series. You are right that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves...but I also think it's fun to dream a bit. Dynasties rarely happen but it's every fan's dream. That's why I pooh pooh adding Musgrove or Teheran or Brantley or Cruz...the team as constructed should make the playoffs and none of those guys is going to make them a can't lose team...but a breakthrough by Cease...and Vaughn...and Madrigal...and Kopeck...could boost us from good team to legendary. When legendary is still a possible outcome I think you try to play that hand to see if it can happen.

You were backing LaVine before most, so you deserve the credit for the call. Early this season it just seemed he took a huge leap so I went all in. He always had the athleticism so if he adds elite shooting he is a star. Even crazier is he doesn't get star calls yet, he has second lowest ft attempts of the top 10 ( behind Curry). Obviously he still needs to stay consistent and prove that he can repeat these numbers, but its been a hell of a start.

For 5 seconds you had me badger...I literally hit reply as my brain was going "are you crazy"...than it hit me...you are so totally sane and funny!!!

Much more at the link.

Usually many of my posts are edited because I don't proof read them well enough or I think of something else to add. So when I was writing my response to you I typed rotting instead of rooting and caught it when proof reading and I thought, hell, that's as good of a word as any for describing us diehards interest in the Sox. One side of my mouth drinks the Kool Aid and the other spits poison and bites. Is that what they mean by speaking out of both sides of your mouth ??

In fact, the third biggest contract in baseball history after Trout and barely trailing Mookie Betts, arguably the two best players in baseball, at least position player-wise.

I find you to be one of the reasoned voices on here...so I guess I'm surprised at your seeming anger at the off season. Lynn was the best pitcher that changed hands in the AL this offseason...Hendricks is a great upgrade...Tony LaRussa is almost certainly going to be better than Ricky. Eaton is a pro. Cespedes and Vera seem like exciting young additions. Vaughn instead of EE...Katz instead of Coop. And we are keeping a tight budget to go buy someone at the trade deadline...like I mentioned a second ago...how about Chris Sale??

I guess I'm not saying how did their careers end up...because we know about the 2000 and 1995 staffs....but what was thought of them at the time. If you look at Wells stats at the time he came up he wasn't nearly as good as Stiever's stats. I remember being excited about him...but no where near the Kopech/Crochet/Cease excitement. Garland had a nice career...but in 1998 we got him from the Cubs for 31 year old Matt Karcher who really wasn't very good. At 19 he had an OK time at A+ but not dominating stuff...and then at 20 in 2000 he was in our rotation. I don't think a person here would trade 19 year old Jared Kelly for 19 year old Jon Garland (again assuming we didn't know future performance). I think the cautionary tale is that 1994 staff with a 28 year old McDowell, and very young Fernandez, Alvarez, Bere with Ruffcorn and Baldwin in the minors and it looked like 4 or 5 aces...sort of like now. Then the next year McDowell signs with the Yankees (Gio), Bere after going 12-2 blew out his arm, Ruffcorn and Baldwin never developed and that dream team never happened...though that 1994 team that we lost the WS because of stupid strike....was the best I ever followed...until now.

Gio was a fleece. Eloy was a big fleece as the Cubs got meh out of Q. Ceas3 may end up a big fleece as well. The difference is that Eloy sucks at defense so you lose a lot of HOF value. Shields was also completely worthless before we got him. Q may have been meh with the Cubs, but he did contribute to playoff teams.

Yes. Who knows, Cease may be too before too long.

Some of us come here to get updates about Spring Training.

Stfu about TLR. Not every thread needs to turn into a TLR bitchfest.

Giolito primed for another standout season (mlb.com) This is exciting. “It’s like a 12-6 curveball, but it just goes down,” Giolito said. “It comes out of my hand almost like a slider variant. It’s hard to give it a real true name like curveball or slider. But the whole idea of it is it comes out on my fastball plane and then just goes down kind of later, whereas my slider is a little more right to left with that downward action. This one is more like out of the hand fastball plane, straight down late So...like a straight, slow, sinker maybe? With hard break on it?

I personally think the name goes great with the logo of our beloved stadium. Hell, he should advertise the pitch and have Guaranteed Rate sponsor it with their logo.

Is he trying to say he's throwing his curveball again without hurting Coop's feelings?

Someone needs to tell Lucas the truth that he is not good at naming things before this gets out of hand.

Nice to name it after Hector Gomez.

Are you somebody’s mom I know?

If you can hit it, you can name it.

Can't wait in a few years when Gio is throwing a knuckler and the frisbee.

Sounds like it's a hard curveball, Lucas.

Hopefully this isn't the the Ricky Vaughn Eliminator

Remember Gyroball mania...Downerball is going to the MOON!