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Collins needed to return so that the White Sox could preserve his option status. He didn't spend 20 days in the minors so the option doesn't count. He'll have an option remaining coming into the 2022 season now.

Nicely done on Norm day

even OJ thought that was murdered

I have been a Sox fan for 49 years. Winning the Division and making the playoffs are a really big deal for this ball club. It doesn't happen that often. I have learned to enjoy the journey as much as the destination. This season has been a great journey so far. There is no way to predict what will happen in the playoffs. I just hope the team is as healthy as they can be and i will enjoy every minute of it.

That’s one of those moments people will come on here and say we were too negative. That was legit one of the ugliest zero run innings of the year.

really not taking enough walks -- Keith Law

The one side of that ball is now flat.

ok

Well I think they thought that Zavala was more useful. Now they're bringing back Collins because Seby stinks too and it preserves Collins' option status and makes him much easier to trade this offseason

Stop peddling logic around here. Jeez.

never a doubt

Imagine not having anyone warming up when Wright hasn't been able to throw a strike all inning

Of course no one is warming up

TLR wants someone who can go multiple innings even if he's a garbage pitcher.

I thought mlb the show disrespected him with that 1 speed rating but now I might have to reconsider that thought.

Hope nobody is “bored” with a three run lead, 2 home runs and six runs after three and a half innings.

xBA of .170 on that HR for Walsh

He hit that to 95th, BS on that 447.

Leury out-OPSing Hernandez...

Abreu's helmet must be a nightmare to pick up, for the bat boys. Goodness, that is nasty.

If we lose to a guy name Packy then we deserved to lose to a guy named Packy

Yankees up 5-0 on Baltimore in the 3rd inning. It's becoming increasingly clear that the Wild Card is going to be won by the team that gets to play Baltimore last.

LOL

Fastball: Sits 90-93; sinks it low; modest arm-side run; predominantly flat elsewhere in the zone. Draws weak contact in the lower third; barrel magnet when he tries to elevate. Deception slightly pads quality; modest velocity and movement profile will give him smaller margin for error at the big league level. Grade: 45 Curveball: Often lacks target zone velocity, sitting around 74-76. Inconsistent arm speed, release point and follow through. Shows sharp 1/7 break at its best; decent amount of slow rolling hangers up in the zone. Backdoors it to steal strikes and works it low as a spike pitch. Swing and miss is more so a product of pitchability than raw stuff. Grade: 45 Changeup: Above-average offering; optimal velo separation at 80-83. Features late tumble and solid arm-side fade. Maintains arm speed; thrown with conviction; shows confidence utilizing the pitch in FB counts. Elicits weak contact and swing and miss from both LHB and RHB. Grade: 55 Control and Command: Crafty southpaw with advanced pitchability. Impressive control; pounds the zone with quality strikes; sequences well, avoiding predictable patterns and locations. Actively attacks the edges of the plate; gives up loud well barreled shots in the heart of the zone. Above-average command of FB and CH; CB command significantly lags behind. Control: 60 | Command: 55 Name: Extremely Stupid. Grade: 25

I've noticed a very big difference though. CNN and the broadcast networks are biased in choosing which facts/stories to emphasize and which ones to ignore. Someone uses a racial slur against a Democrat, it gets the full 4 hour primetime treatment. Someone uses a racial slur against a Republican and it just doesn't get mentioned. I don't often hear flat-out false information. Fox News, and to an even greater extent Newsmax and OAN, present much more information that just isn't true, either deliberately or because they didn't bother to fact check.

I'm not convinced that's true, at all. Say the Sox make a long playoff run. Say they win the World Series and Rodon is the ace during the playoffs, pulls a Bumgarner. While that will earn him more money on the open market, I also could very easily see Jerry and the brass making sure that World Series "hero" doesn't walk away for nothing.... A lot will have to do with this teams performance in October.

If the White Sox have taught me anything, its that they have no idea what the rotation will look like next year, let alone is 2024. Don't believe me? Go back 5 years and look at everyone's "future rotations" and line ups.

If we have to face Houston and they have HF, this is going to be a short playoff push.

Probably a bit early to look ahead, but at the same time there's very little likelihood that we catch the Rays or that Oakland/Seattle catch Houston. Only thing really TBD is 3 games in Houston or Southside. So wanted to discuss the rotation and how people would like that to lineup for a potential matchup. Lynn - home era 2.60, road era 2.31, day era 1.25, night era 3.18. One GS against HOU, 4ip, 6runs, 13.50ERA. Career 5ERA at minute maid, poor against houston last year with a 12era, 16 runs in 11IP last year. really, he's done poor at 4 ballparks in his career ... wrigley, minute maid, yankee ... and suprisingly PNC. Giolito - Home era 3.79, road era 3.60, day era 4.98, night era 2.92. One game against HOU this year, complete game 3 hitter, 1r. Cease Home era 3.22, road era 5.37, day era 3.05, night era 4.97. 2 GS against HOU, 9ERA, 10R Rodon home era 2.45, road era 2.32, day era 3.40, night era 1.81. 2 GS against HOU, 0.64ERA As much as i love lance lynn and would say he's the ace of this team, his numbers against the Astros over the past 2 years is poor. Every out in the postseason is big, so something to think about when picking game 1/game 5 starter. Meanwhile Rodon has cleaned up against Houston ... has even road/home splits as well. Cease clearly has an advantage pitching during the day and at home. some guys respond okay to different routines, some need that day to prepare. Giolito seems to be one of those guys. and that doesn't surprise me. he seems to be methodical and maybe it's as simple as afternoon games he can't get comfortable in his routines? Of course all of these stats can be skewed by a start or two and not sure how different they look going back to other seasons ... but it's worth discussing. Assuming Houston has a better record, I'd go: Rodon Lynn Travel Day Cease? Giolito Travel Day Rodon or Lynn? This lines up Cease at home, also lines him up in Game 3. I chose this assuming that if things go wrong we'd need a decent amount of innings from the bullpen & that a Kopech/Crochet could be fresh enough 3 days later to come in for high leverage 2IP relief. You could very easily sway me in any rotation breakdown. I'd also consider Giolito out of the gate, switching with Rodon. Cease at 4 makes sense too, because correct me if I'm wrong, but that would lineup for a bullpen day for whoever starts game 3, meaning they could give you an inning? Also wonder how TLR historically has handled arms in the playoffs. I feel like this phenomenon of being on a super short leash is over the past 6-8 years. Like, didn't it really, really start with Bumgarner? Which now that i think of it is like 10 years ago... But either way TLR wasn't really around then. So wonder if he's a quick leash, or maybe more of the Ozzie 5 CG in a row mentality.

A bit juvenile of me but it was fun reviewing preseason posts about possible (Food Guys) trade for Burnes and hypothetical players we might send. Not gonna name names but several on this Board were opposed to even considering including names like Kelley, Madrigal, Steiver, Heuer, Vaughn and, God forbid, Jimenez. I recall spirited debate as to who is the better pitcher, Burnes or Giolito. Sorry for being so trivial but just wanted to drive a final stake into the whole 'Burnes relative value' discussion. Where Corbin Burnes now ranks in baseball among qualified pitchers: fWAR: 1st (7.1) ERA: 1st (2.25) FIP: 1st (1.50) xERA: 1st (1.89) xFIP: 1st (2.30) SIERA: 1st (2.59) K-BB%: 1st (30.5) HR/9: 1st (0.30) Barrel rate: 1st (2.6) K%: 1st-t (35.4)

Good to see Vaughn sitting. Give the kid some rest and let's get him ready to rock in a week or so. Engel should be back pretty soon anyways, guessing by weekend.

Man, I appreciate your depth of knowledge to understand all the roster jockeying Hahn has made this year.

So what is the probability that Sox will sign a veteran catcher in off season?

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/roster/transactions

Really, is that why? I thought Kelenic was his son or something.

First time in the history of the franchise.

Wow. Benetti really exploded on that podcast. Good for him. It's simply ridiculous to not let he and Stone travel on the road. How the hell are you supposed to broadcast a game watching it on TV in Chicago? Awful decision. Cmon. Compared to player contracts these announcers' pay mean nothing to the bottom line. I bet Stone refuses to do this next season.

it's difficult for me to project the rest of September and October and here we have a thread about the starting rotation in 2024. Mind blown.

Uh… yea. Pretty sure we’ll see someone like Kelly or Dalquest or Thompson… possibly a guy like DeGrom or Wheeler. Hopefully Kopech is our ace… really will love it if he hits the ceiling.

Rodon will not be pitching for the Sox past 2021. I’d bet very large sums of money on that.

There were a lot of wrong people saying just spend the money for a starting pitcher especially Garrett Richards rather than trade for Burnes. Back in January the Sox had basically spent all their money and only had around $8M left to spend which turned out to be true. From 1/20/21 on ( the height of the Burnes speculation) all the Sox did was sign a bunch of people to minor league contracts including Lucroy and sign Rodon (2/1/21). I had said if the Brewers wanted Crochet I would ve been fine with that . Had we traded for Burnes, the Sox still may have resigned Rodon. Imagine this years and future staffs if that had happened. I actually brought Crochet's name up before the speculation that the Brewers wanted to swap out Stievers for Crochet in the list of prospects headed back to Milwaukee. There were also a ton of people who said you don't give up so many prospects for a guy who hadn't proven anything yet. I'm sure many of those would still stick to that argument despite Burnes season this year. Those people are not GM types. A good GM has to risk signing young talent before it becomes expensive and if you wouldn't take that risk for Burnes I don't know who they would actually trade for when there was an immediate need for a high quality cost controlled starting pitcher. The Sox obviously took a risk that Rodon could pitch 150 innings so thinking Burnes couldn't do that too didn't seem like much of a concern. Cease has also basically went from about the same amount of innings as Burnes last year and is also over 150 IP. Cease is right near the age that Burnes is and his progress this year bodes well for good things from him very soon. In retrospect, we still have only a few of those prospects left now with Madigal and Heuer gone for Kimbrel. We can never be sure if adding Crochet would've got that deal done . I have reread the whole old thread and it does seem that there were legitimate trade talks between the Brewers and Sox for Burnes. Just how far they actually got is another story.

Rogan got monoclonal antibody treatment, something that has actually been shown to be highly effective.

Wasn't he the 3rd baseman in Major League?

Yes 15+ years ago, great memories. This years team is not good on the road and is average/below average against over .500 teams. Just tempering expectations.

I think you go Rodon game 1, especially if he shows you that he can still throw high 90s consistently in his last few starts before the playoffs begin. His numbers against Houston are hard to argue against and he's shut them down twice this year. Lynn just doesn't match up well against Houston at all. If you start him, go with him in game 2. Giolito should go game 3 assuming it's not at 11 in the morning and Cease must pitch at home since his road numbers are pretty bad.

Based pretty much on these two alone, I'd roll up with Rodon-Giolito-Lynn-Cease if we're on the road. In a picture perfect world, that sets you up for Lynn to close it out at home. Plus, I think of all the pitchers, Rodon might get the biggest "good" adrenaline boost from pitching Game 1.

That is not true. If we returned to the best AL vs best NL format, if a team runs away w their league all the games late in the year would be meaningless. Now if we played even gamesw each team in a division and took the top 3 with 2 vs 3 and winner plays 1 it would still create interest but still reward the best team in each division.

I grew up with 2 divisions per league, an LCS, and the WS. I wish it were that way again. The original way has merit as well. Those were the days before collective bargaining though, and a team like the Yankees could build a dominant team and win pennants year after year making me wonder how fans of the also rans managed to keep interest through decades of never having even a hope for the postseason. Despite that, it did work well though.

Lock this thread and ban OP, thanks