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I know we are White Sox fans on here, but we are also baseball fans. So since the Dodgers were clearly inferior to the Braves this year getting their asses handed to them in the playoffs, just like our White Sox were lambasted for being so inferior because we lost a playoff series, and I've heard all this talk about all that needs to be changed with this Sox team because we lost a playoff series, what do the Dodgers need to do to get themselves to be on the same level as the Braves?.............. .........oh wait. The Dodgers were 18 games better than the Braves during the season? So they really were better? Well, they lost a playoff series to them. Which proves one thing boys and girls. THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A CRAPSHOOT!! Now to begin with, I'm not ignorant enough to believe we don't have deficiencies to work on this off season. We don't have a right fielder, (actually we didn't have one before the season and didn't bother to get one,) we don't have a good every day second baseman and Kimbrel was a train wreck. But all I've heard since we lost the series to Houston is all that's wrong with us on here. I've even heard one idiotic comment on here that one of our problems is Abreu and Jimenez are too much alike so we need to get rid of one of them because of that. Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't let this ridiculously ignorant statement go. Maybe the Dodgers should get rid of Justin Turner, Max Muncy and Chris Taylor because they are all proponents of the "launch angle" theory, and therefore too much alike!! ( And yes, I know Muncy hits lefthanded so please, nobody comment on here that Muncy is different from Turner and Taylor being left handed. Because they all have something in common buying into the launch angle theory. ) But hey, they lost in the playoffs with these guys.....so I guess they aren't good enough. I said in another post on here that only one team will win it all and everyone else will end up a loser. And the fact is that the FIFTH best team in the NL this year won the pennant!! So let's here it everyone. We're number 5! We're number 5! We're number 5!! Is that a chant heard very often?? I guess my main point on here is the White Sox had a good year and won their division. And they will continue to be a strong team with this nucleus. What I feel proves this is we won 93 games without even being REMOTELY healthy. Do we have some work to do in the off season? Of course, as I stated two paragraphs ago. But to barbecue this team because we lost a playoff series? That's ridiculous. And if you believe we should, then you better to make sure you rip on the Dodgers, Giants, Rays and Brewers, all teams that won more games than we did, and also lost in the playoffs. Playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls. Pure and simple. If your team wins it, enjoy and celebrate it. If you don't, nowadays it doesn't prove a thing. And maybe I'm being a bit sensitive because an analogy I've always liked to use, is your favorite baseball team is like your little brother. You can rip and pick on him all you want but nobody else better do it. So hearing the White Sox get ripped on here so heavily makes me defensive. Even if it is by other Sox fans. And guess what? We may shore up all our weaknesses this off season, get back to the playoffs..........and possibly lose again in the playoffs next year. Because winning a championship is never promised and the playoffs are a crapshoot. If you don't believe me, than just ask the Dodgers.

No because you could see the pressure get to our starting staff. The Red Sox would have teed off on us just like Houston did. Can't win many playoff games when your starters piss themselves on the mound and cant go more than 2 innings.

The Astros have made five straight ALCS championships; three of which have led to WS appearances. It’s not random anymore, guys. When we suggest to improve the ballclub to compete with Houston, it’s not just a reactionary response to losing. They have to be counted on as being there, in the playoffs, every season until proven otherwise. All roads to the WS go through Houston.

Acvording to this board,, payoffs are all random except if it's the White Sox. That's why 4 WAR in 93 games catchers actually suck. It's why the Sox RF issue was easily solved by getting an injured Eddie Rosario if the front office had any brain. In the end, the playoffs are so random anyone can win. The 2005 White Sox were 11-1, but if a ball doesn't go through Tony Grafininos legs and ElDuque pitches like he did the rest of the season, they probably lose in the ALDS. Try to shore up the deficiencies, but every team has them. Just hope the team is hot and things break your way in the playoffs. It didn't happen this year. But they should be a playoff team for at least a couple more years.

https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_commy/video/7022374924736007429?sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=6950334037614183941&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0 So they've used whistles for every pitch, a smart watch (which is illegal) and now foreign substances. The Braves ain't winnin shit with all that cheating.

Neither semien nor garcia were let go because of defensive shortcomings. What are you talking about. Avi wasn't even dealt. Jfc. And why could the sox have used Omar Navarez? Were the sox going to sit their star catcher in thr playoffs lol.

Considering his walk rate almost doubled with the Cubs, his strikeout rate fell by about half, and his BABIP against went from .367 with the Sox to .225 with the Cubs, I am going to note that your assumption was wrong that he was able to "locate the plate". His FIP with the Cubs was actually 3/4 of a run higher with them vs the Sox, and note that he was incredibly lucky with the Cubs, and incredibly UNlucky with the Sox. I will also note that he had two saves in 25 appearances, so he wasn't exactly "closing out games" either.

Make no mistake: the finely-tuned Soxtalk negativity machine, if turned loose on any of the other playoff losers, could eviscerate them just as easily as it does our own team on a daily basis. The Braves do give me hope. They put together a good squad through a rebuild, kept plugging away, had success but were up and down and frankly kind of forgotten this year until now. We just have to keep pushing, make the playoffs regularly, and our time will come. Who knows—our big chance may well come when we least expect it.

I don’t know everything but I know some things. One of the things I know it is that this won’t happen.

Max Scherzer will make his next start for the Chicago White Sox.

So if you have ten years of position player moves in FA and Yasmani Grandal sticks out as the best, that’s not exactly saying much. Any GM in baseball could have had him for those same terms…but weren’t to do so. The Brewers, for example. got a lot more out of Grandal for just a one year commitment, then Narvaez, Pina, etc., for a fraction of the price. Wouldn’t it be better if we could have developed the full potential of our own players like Semien or Narvaez (or even Collins), rather than trading them off early when they struggle in one area or another? Then we have no option but to try to fix that hole through FA. Even Avi Garcia, we arguably would have been better off retaining him than misallocating for that position since he left the Sox and moved on.

This is just infuriating. Garcia threw more pitches over 96 in this one game, than the ENTIRE SEASON?!?!??? Yeah, that kind of stuff randomly happens all the time. I know..every team in MLB is cheating in some way....or at least trying to. But the Trashtros seem to take all of it to the next level and tbh they don't even need to. They can probably win multiple WS (or at least reach multiple WS just on their talent). Something needs to change to put these guys in their place and have some sort of punishment for this nonsense.

There is a difference between losing a well played, close series played to the limit like the 2-1 Game 5 Dodgers 2 Giants 1, as opposed to bowing out 10-1 blowout, and losing by 5 the other two games. The White Sox were not even close to competitive against Houston, the least competitive series of the six playoff series to date. The Sox were outplayed and outmanaged in every aspect, from the first portion of Game 1 with La Russa panicking and sending the infield in early in a 1-0 game, through the Game 4 postgame, where Tony's primary focus was crying about "intentional HBPs", the "unwritten rules" which was his primary focus all season, beyond Connie Mack. To chalk up playoff results to "it's just a coin flip", and not recognize several weaknesses in team play, management and approach (hitting, defense, pitch calling) is avoiding acknowledgment there is a lot of work and changes required to get to the point the Sox can be consistently competitive against the best teams in baseball, and in the best position to tilt the odds in their favor with each pitch, at bat, each contested 90 feet, every inning and game. Last year Hahn made Ricky the scapegoat, and ownership claimed Tony was the right man to "win now". Tony's Stan's here claimed Tony's switch would work in the post-season, and after defeat now claim it took Tony a year just to get to know people, and he and his staff will begin performing their jobs next season. We are still waiting to possibly hear from Hahn about his analysis of what went wrong against Houston, and what their plans are to rectify these shortcomings in 2022. Houston wasn't whining about being without Verlander or Greinke as a starter, and against Boston also playing without McCullers. They just went out there and took care of business. That's what a well managed team does, overcome adversity, and focus on the task at hand which is winning the game, not focusing on gamesmanship and unwritten rules Withholding the rotation and Game 1 lineup until the last minute Tepera whining about cheating. instead of talking about his team's performance, after the one game the Sox actually played well Tony stating Kopech was unavailable for Game 4, whereas he's the first man out of the bullpen La Russa whining about Dusty and unwritten rules after getting whupped by 9 runs in an embarrassing managed game

Fans are entitled to blog their opinions on how to improve their favorite teams without 9 paragraphs of rightious rambling on how we should be grateful (I think that is your point) for the early exit because 'the playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls'. I give you an A for word count though.

Kinda a sad state of affairs when we simply assume a player of that caliber would simply be gone in FA instead of being retained by the White Sox. We've become conditioned like Pavlov's dogs...guess we will see what they decide to do with Giolito and TA.

Fields should demand a trade Every QB drafted by the bears should refuse to play

Anyone can win a short series and the Braves proved it and I'm happy they did. Now go out and beat the cheaters and it's also payback time for Atlanta and Georgia for losing the All Star Game because of stupid politics.

Do we think that’s anymore likely to happen than, say, outbidding everyone for Semien or Byrant? Also, sustained success implies a consistent run of playoff appearances. It’s a whole other issue of whether we fall flat every year in the 1st round or move forward. Honestly, I can’t even look forward that far when we just made the playoffs, in two straight seasons, for the first time in franchise history. We likely have the roster to make the playoffs again, which I’ appreciative for; but I’m worried whether they’re aiming to just win the division….and hope it’s their lucky year….or construct a team to defeat Houston and win a World Series. I think this season (and short postseason) has given us a clear picture of the improvements which need to done for the next step.

This argument is still weak. Boston knows the Rays well and Boston was a top team for a large chunk of this year. They got Sale back and Schwarber at the deadline. The Dodgers beat one 100 win team and then lost to a team that should not have had HFA over them. Atlanta is also a very talented team that was dealing with a ton of injuries. People need to stop making excuses for us getting our butts beat badly.

The Sox aren't responsible for the other teams in their division, and if they are so awful, the playoffs will be a lay up.

I long thought that if this Sox team got out of the first round, they'd make the World Series, and from there it would be a toss up....but I also didnt think it would be Atlanta. Nothing against the Braves, they have played great.

The playoffs are mostly a crapshoot, yes. That is why the ideal way to get to a legitimate champion was when there was only a WS with the two pennant winners. Its not like football; it takes a ton of games for the elite to percolate the to the top and the pretenders to filter themselves out. Yet now we bring them back in to the equation for a series or two? Yes we do see teams like Houston returning to the playoffs often and having success*. I think in those cases it is because they have been an elite team that has successfully gone thru the grind of regular seasons which allows them to get acclimated to the playoff environment thru experience so they can perform on that stage. If you can’t establish sustainable success your playoffs fortunes are a roll of the dice regardless of your talent. * cheating notwithstanding of course.

Actually it was worse. Two teams in the NL East lost more games than any team in the AL Central.

Look at the NL East. That was just as bad a division as the AL Central. Yet the Braves survived and are in the Series.

"the better teams still win a LOT of these series." I hear you and I THINK this is usually true. But I'm not sure. Boston beat Tampa in the playoffs. Now, someone can argue that Tampa Bay is built more for the regular season then a short series. But they did win what 8 more games than Boston? That tells me Tampa Bay was better over the course of the long season. Same thing with Atlanta beating Milwaukee. Brewers had the better record. I guess I'm a bit defensive about this in saying the team that had the better record is usually better because of the White Sox history. Are people aware on here that the White Sox in the years 1963, 64 and 65 won 94, 98 and 95 games respectively? And all they got to show for it were 3 second place obscurities? But do you think the Yankees and Twins, the pennant winning teams of those years, would have liked facing a pitching staff of Gary Peters, Joe Horlen, Juan Pizarro and Hoyt Wilhelm out of the bullpen in a short series? You don't think we could have won a short playoff series with those guys? We might have had a dynasty in those years and we might have had a statue of Gary Peters in our ballpark. Instead, many people don't even know who he is. Or even still, what about our teams throughout the 50's, which in my opinion were even stronger overall then these teams in the 60's, that would have made the playoffs today but didn't then? So instead, we here all this bullshit about how the White Sox have only won one pennant since 1959 and won one World Series since 1917. And not just the White Sox. It's amazing how much history could have been re-written if things were always the way they are now. "Getting beat by legit good players like Altuve, Correa, Yordan and Tucker is very different than getting beat by an out of his mind Eddie Rosario." You're right about this and I agree with you. Maybe it was our bad draw getting Houston in the first round? Maybe we would have beaten Tampa Bay? I definitely think we were better than Boston. But I guess in the end it doesn't matter. Because it still would have gone through Houston, and I do feel Houston was the best team in the AL this year. So I guess I have to say to you point well taken. "I have no interest in rolling the random playoff dice and hoping for storybook hot streaks. Gimme the best team we can put together on paper and I’ll take my chances there." I 100,000% agree with you there. Well put. That's all we can do. But I'm just afraid that because of the randomness of the playoffs that it might not matter? That someday in the playoffs we'll run into another "out of his mind Eddie Rosario?" In essence, the reason I did use the Dodger/Brave series as an example is because LA had the stronger team. There is no way to dispute that. They won 18 more games than Atlanta. But in the playoffs...... But you are absolutely right in what you saying "Gimme the best team possible and take our chances." That's all we can do and hope for.

He’s left handed, plays 2nd base, has high contact rates and doesn’t hit the ball on the ground. I’m sorry his performance with your favorite team traumatized you but that’s a short list of players and him sucking with your favorite team is probably good for acquiring him.

Yes.

Can't agree that it's Tony's fault, he came into a situation where his first priority was gaining the players respect, and that took time away from teaching fundamental baseball. After he had a year to watch the same mistakes we've witnessed year after year let's see what happens in spring training this year. To say that's it's Tony's fault because our outfield was basically a bunch of retreads after the injuries to Robert and Engel is not fair. To say he's responsible for all the mistakes made in the field in my opinion has to do more with the players who were signed by the GM than his managerial ability. Your opening comment is off the chart ridiculous.

Yeah, it’s almost like we’re betting everything on rolling the 2005 “everything must go perfectly/stars must align” dice at this point…because the White Sox were never going to have a 6 year window like the Cubs, 7 years like the Astros and 9 like the Dodgers. We get 4 years, and perhaps 5. Two are gone already. And the Cubs, Royals and Astros each experienced a lot more success than two total playoff victories in the beginning years of their respective windows.

I get what you’re saying here and I agree with parts of it. The playoffs are definitely a crapshoot. That said, I think the whole ‘randomness of the playoffs’ thing has gotten a little carried away where we’re forgetting that the better teams still win a LOT of these series. The lesser team winning is still the exception to the rule, but it gets a lot of attention for obvious reasons. I guess my point is…Comparing the Sox/Astros series to the Dodgers/Braves series, which it seems like you’re doing, feels a bit like apples to oranges. Getting beat by legit good players like Altuve, Correa, Yordan and Tucker is very different than getting beat by an out of his mind Eddie Rosario. I have no interest in rolling the random playoff dice and hoping for storybook hot streaks. Gimme the best team we can put together on paper and I’ll take my chances there.

If I'm not mistaken the Dodgers have played in multiple WS' prior to this year. We haven't won 3 playoff games yet.

Obviously the Braves are the best example of making the playoffs so many times with only one title over three decades to show for it. That said, the Dodgers were just not hitting well late, were missing too many key parts of their team and starting Buehler twice on three day's rest caught up to them. That and Matzek. Roberts also made some terrible managerial decisions in this series...especially his usage of Urias. In the end, the Braves did a great job shoring up their offense at the trade deadline and having a deep enough farm system that they could still overcome the losses of Soroka and Ynoa. They've also been able to develop MVP caliber talents like Riley, Freeman, Acuna and Albies internally.

The Brewers didn’t even have a $100 million payroll at the beginning of the season…give that front office even another $50 million to get to MLB average and they will be right there. Even the Braves were #12 on Opening Day, $47 million higher…and made a ton of acquisitions at the ASB so they finished in the Top 10.

Ian Happ of the Cubs might be an interesting get. SH w/power from both sides. Career OPS of 805. 25 HRs in '21 and capable of playing 2b and all 3 OF positions. looked as though he had things figured out in 2H last year.

My guess is they plan on Cespedes being the RF of the future and they will acquire an RF stand-in for RF until he is ready.

Bye Garcia......................Need SP

So the Sox went through a total rebuild to have a 1 year window. It was 2021 or bust. The team will be better in 2022 than it was in 2021, breaking several Soxtalk posters hearts.

Good idea. The Twins responded quite positively to such threats....they got a chip on their shoulders. Anything is better than complacency in the AL Central. Maybe it will take the Tigers going out and spending on C, SS and their starting rotation to set the tone and force a response from the Sox, instead of KW's usual bromide about the Tigers "just put themselves in a position to come closer to competing with the White Sox" bravado.

Yes, but they did cheat, or was the whole sign stealing scandal my imagination?

Except the Astros are going to have an extra $50 million of financial flexibility from where they will end the World Series payroll-wise compared to the Sox position with Kimbrel added... While our pitching is unlikely to improve on 2020 numbers, they somehow have a better farm system and the home field advantage bringing Verlander back into the fold for his last seasons. Knowing them, they'll probably take a shot at Syndergaard, Kershaw or Bauer, too.

With Ketel Marte included, you’d have to trade Jimenez/Vaughn (probably ask for both to start) and Crochet. Not sure you get there with Sheets, Burger and Crochet. Which means the fairest package would be Vaughn or Jimenez, Sheets or Burger, and Crochet. Once again, that pretty much limits the remaining window to the next couple of seasons.

He is the same Karen who gets triggered and whines across pages of threads about the gross offense of reading "OK Boomer". Another troll called "Boomer" the equivalent of "The N-Word". These cowards who do the "chop" are upset they can't call Blacks what they did without getting their ass kicked and jobs taken away, so they settle for disparaging Native Americans. it's pathetic, embarrassing to baseball fans, and needs to end yesterday.

As an admin aren't politics supposed to be in another forum like Slam and supposed to be kept out of gamethreads . If anyone wants to go there and do it or go to a braves playoff game and hold up a sign that says " if you do the tomahawk chop you are a racist" I will applaud your efforts. My pushback on ageism was because of ageist comments made by individuals here. Watching a baseball game and starting the NLCS thread was not racist. Surely you can see the difference. I did nothing to provoke the politics in the thread.

Recognizing racism isn't becoming woke. I enjoyed those games (I was 12-22) in the 90s and when I realized what was going on it definitely changed my enjoyment of those games and I wasn't a fan of it. At some point a lot of bigoted pejoratives changed from regular conversational words to words that should not be spoken due to their meaning to a race. If you want to push back on ageism so much then maybe you should sit this one out .

Did you enjoy watching the Braves in the 90's before you became woke and you decided that the Braves symbol was racist and so was the tomahawk chop? I guess you woke up when everyone else did . I know my position is a losing one because I am not acting like the woke people who must invade people's enjoyment of a simple game with how hip they have become.

Ok Didn't say it wasn't; try reading closer. Yep, but it's a substantially smaller gap than it used to be. Here's one article, of dozens available, explaining this: https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/9/21/17885820/pitch-framing-strike-zone-jorge-alfaro-tyler-flowers Didn't say it was -- but it's a nearly universal consensus (and was at the time of the White Sox signing) that Grandal is/was elite at the former and terrible at the latter -- and that happens to be who we're talking about. It seems like you had a particular-shaped complaint that you wanted to fit my post into ahead of time. I don't even have a problem with Grandal on this team, lol. All of the teams that are employing specifically those players? The two teams in the ALCS are good examples, but you can find more.

Speaking of SWS, I learned something today. If you book a flight with points, you can actually get a refund of points if the flight gets cheaper later on. We booked a trip we are going on around Christmas with points. It wasn't the flight I wanted, so I have been checking into the "change" menu on a regular basis to see if it the ones we really wanted to go on get cheaper. I rebooked a couple of weeks ago to something marginally better, but still not ideal. Well one I was looking at it today, one of the legs of the flight showed it was about 2000 points per person cheaper than it was when I booked it. So I went through the "change" process for the exactly same flight, and low and behold I got the points back.

I liked Nick too...but what in his injury-ridden seasons (that don't add up to one full season) makes you think he destined to be 15x all-star, multi-Gold Glove winner and a future Hall of Famer?

The dedication to your Sox Fandam is quite impressive.

I think the Angels should just trade him this offseason....do they need a closer? ?