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Awful? Lol I think you're the one who needs to relax and drop the hyperbole.

You absolutely should be taking information from multiple sources of data, yes. It's just a better idea when those data points are something the actor can actually control, which is why W/L record is largely ignored for pitchers. If you want to use it in conjunction with statistics, it's not my place to tell you that you can't, but I would at least suggest that it be weighted less than basically anything else you examine.

Because I can’t stand Renteria and his awful lineups, I put the Sox main regulars through a lineup optimizer online to see what their best line ups are using SLG % and wOBA The best lineup at 4.678 runs per game is Moncada, Anderson, Jay, Abreu, McCann, Eloy, Garcia, Castillo and Sanchez. Moncada and Anderson are pretty interchangeable as the computer really likes those two guys leading off. The computer doesn’t put speed in account but Id like to Anderson batting leadoff with Moncada behind him. This optimizer also gives you the 30 best lineups and the 30 worst lineups. In 16 of those 30 worst lineups, Anderson is batting seventh. Can someone explain to me why Anderson is batting seventh? If I can get these lineups on a free website, certainly the Sox have the same data.

Jon Jay Cleanup Hitter...

Ridiculous using your closer in 4 run game the day before a DH

Personally I would love to see Gio mix in his curve more. Not sure if he doesn’t trust it or what.

Next year, it has to be a 4 man bench by rule. 26 man roster, 13 pitcher max. I feel like people often forget that and the minimum batters faced for relievers next year.

This site has really regressed in civility. An opinion that is considered stupid to some is trolling.

Bailey saw he didn't make the Future Sox top 30 and figured he show you bastards.

They really aren't that important. You can't built a team for 24-26 now but you can build a team from the present through 2023. Sustained success is bullshit man. You are believing the smoke they are blowing up your ass. Win a damn World Series . That's the main goal . Have they put the resources into building sustained success ? Nope. Sustained success means you are relying on the farm to consistently produce talent. Do they have 75 high speed cameras throughout the system like the Astros ? Do they have an extra minor league team ? Do they consistently spend all their intl. bonus pool money ? Do they have a thorough analytics dept ? The Sox are still a huge question mark in terms of knowing what to do with young talent and a huge question mark on drafting and development. They have no idea how to approach free agents. Can you imagine the Sox blowing away a free agent pitcher the way the Astro's did Gerrit Cole after they traded for him ? Commit the funds and resources to develop young talent and I might believe you are serious about sustained success . Also if serious about contending why not have your best players prepared and on the field immediately in 2020 ? Why let the 2 of them miss a combined 40 games or so waiting for the correct date to be called up ? Does that sound like a team that wants to win? Isn't the point of spending big this off season to start the contention window next year ? If so why turn around and take your best players purposely out of the lineup ? The info about the Astro's is contained in a book titled The MVP Machine: How Baseball’s New Nonconformists Are Using Data to Build Better Players by The Ringer’s Ben Lindbergh and FiveThirtyEight’s Travis Sawchik. Here is a link to a review of it https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2019/6/12/18661954/astros-lindbergh-sawchik-mvp-machine

Imagine getting mad because people are using a more modern and accurate method when evaluating something.

Didn't want to start a new thread. Zack Godley got dfa'd by Arizona. He's a lot more interesting than Gohara

B.S. I'm not trolling anybody. I'm giving opinions, You might hate my political opinions as well if we were allowed to post them any more. Some people on this board will never accept the fact there are people with DIFFERERING OPINIONS. Guess what. I love Jose had a friend in town today from Chicago and he wasn;'t shocked by any of my Sox points. And he said everybody he knows likes Abreu. He is a HUGE Sox fan BTW.

Not sure why Colome is pitching right now.

Neither does Renteria.

I really hope Hahn and Kenny have the cojones to fire the entire coaching staff after game 162. They really need new voices. Cooper just seems like he's cashing checks at this point.

Yeah. Ricky's not a 100% moron, only 90%. He does have his moments of brilliance, though few and far between.

I truly hope Eloy has the fire to work on his terrible Defensive skills this offseason. Right now, he's RH Palka. That's not good.

They ain't losing chief.

Lucas should be dominating this awful lineup

You're way too negative about everything.

Yeah, even with Tim and Eloy back... this has been a real awakening as to how much Moncada has meant to this offense. 1-5 in this lineup goes from being somewhat respectable to brutal.

I've already accepted the fact he is what he is in that perspective. Kid is never going to be patient. If he continues to hit for a high average however, I'm cool with it. He holds enough value in his bat alone to be a positive player. It's the glove I question.

Hate the way we approach hitting.. its trash and we have lots of guys like that. If they don't learn.. will never be any good.

If we can find that left hand right fielder...Garcia is an ideal backup. Until we find that player Garcia is probably the everyday right fielder.

I agree with your overall point, especially the bold part, and that's why I like looking at innings pitched per start alongside hit rate, home run rate, strikeout rate, walk rate, and then the more advanced batted ball metrics. I get where you're coming from and I know what value you're trying to identify that many of the newer stats admittedly do not always capture. There are just other methods of discovering that value that I prefer to use.

The anti-Ron would say “I love you, Gregster, and will never report you to the board administrators for potential banning because we’re all Sox fans here and certainly don’t ever want to see one of our players to fail.” He would be Elrockin mixed with a dash of Joe Maddon.

I'm thinking of bringing Nova or someone like him with a rubber arm as a 6th starter. Did you forget about Kopech? Giolito, Kopech, Cease and Lopez are 4. They'll have Dunning in the minors and Rodon coming back after the ASB. Bringing Nova or someone like him along with signing Strasburg, Wheeler or Bumgarner should complete the rotation and it would make them 7 deep in the spring and 8 deep when Rodon returns. Injuries killed them this year. They're not as far away as you think. Bringing in another veteran like they did with Santana isn't a bad idea either if they need emergency starts from the Charlotte rotation.

Not if the Sox intend on contending. Covey pitches on a contending team? Good one. Not having injuries is the exception, not the rule. They have 2 top 1/2 of the pen pitchers: Colome and Bummer. Marshall and Fry are good, but bottom guys on a contending team. The only sure rotation piece is Giolito. Cease is a likely. Rodon is a maybe; Lopez is a maybe, but higher than Rodon. Look at the depth on these contending teams. Sox need to match it, or at least approach it, or they are howling at the moon. And we've seen that before: Rick Hahn declared that the team was ready to win in 2014 when they weren't even close. Then he proceeded to set the team back 5 years by "going for it" 2014-16. A bad hitter doesn't kill you, especially if he can defend. A bad pitcher can destroy you.

He's not on the White Sox.

Greg you are a class act when it comes to the abuse you take here. If you left some people here could not deal with the void of harassing you.

It's a microcosm of society. You seen the anger out there? If a person like greg disagrees so much he must be trolling. ... Wrong. He simply disagrees. Parents are now teaching that their kids are right in their opinion no matter what so outlier opinions like mine are not welcome. They are despised. My point was ignored. That Stone immediately goes to conventional stats, wins/losses for pitchers and ERA; HRs, RBI and yes batting average for hitters. Most broadcasts squeeze in OBP in the graphic but never talk about it. If advanced stats were so important why aren't they being integrated into the broadcasts; can't ignore something if it's vital to baseball. Now in the front offices? Yes they are dying to acquire all the advanced stats. Shifts ... they know exactly where the batter will hit the ball. And the ruination of baseball to me? The knowledge that all a hitter needs to worry about are HRs or strikeouts. You must hit a HR or strikeout. Other stuff is bad. No need to hit and run or steal bases, not worth the risk. You notice McCann was raking when he was going to all fields. Now he's struggling.

Sawchik also wrote one on the Pirates three years ago, at that time about defensive shifts, pitch framing and starting pitchers allowing more balls to be out into play by focusing on more low two-seam fastballs paired with Gold Glove level defense on the infield. https://www.amazon.com/Big-Data-Baseball-Miracles-20-Year/dp/1250094259 it would be one thing if we had a proven track record of success...but sacrificing one more year from Moncada and Giolito isn’t likely to end well for Sox fans. Or just ask the Nationals if they would treat Strasburg in the same way if he departs the franchise this offseason without a World Series title on his resume.

After looking at the free agents for next year, I will gladly take Abreu back on a one year deal. Mostly DH and fill in at 1B for Collins.

It's funny, I read the title and I said to myself, whatever it is, he's a douche. Well played. Well played.

Eloy has come up and shown he will hit 30+ HR every year Moncada's having a GREAT year Anderson's year at the plate has been much better than anyone could've expected Robert's a tear on the farm Madrigal's been very good since April Giolito's been wonderful Lopez has had 4-5 consecutive good or better starts and yet people are upset with the year, like they expected a pennant. I agree with you. Wins are a bonus!

Look I'm allowed to fight back once in a while. It's not trolling it's being pxxxxd off. I noticed what Stone said after each of the three home runs and they were citing stats most of you deem inconsequential.

Clicked on the last few pages of this thread and i thought I must have an old game thread open. I’m confused why it’s so negative. They scored 10 runs and Lopez looked decent.

We have that in Leury

Lolololol dude. They need one high end SP, a couple guys for Charlotte who can fill in in the event of injury, a High leverage RHP for the pen, and a long reliever.

I am down with this as minor league players are not ML players and should be subject to less criticism since they are so young and development IS NOT linear.

Well Josh Nelson is just reacting to what the Sox are leading him to think. You don't even have to have a negative attitude . All you have to do is see the road signs . I especially like the meeting with how the Astro's signed Gerrit Cole ,that was enlightening and how the Astros have 75 high speed cameras throughout their system when some teams are getting around to just having one. He's right in the sense that the Sox haven't picked a lane. Playing service time games with Robert and Madrigal makes me think they really don't want to contend next year so why should anyone think they will make a splash in Free Agency besides the low payroll ? They aren't serious about signing intl. talent, they won't have an extra team for that talent , they play service time games, they won't fully do what they have to do in scouting and development. Do things the right way to PROVE you want to win otherwise quit pretending you want to win by giving the car a crap engine but expecting it not to break down. Get in the fast lane or get off the highway.

You make very good points about how confusing it is to get a read on what exactly the Sox are doing or going to do. Do they contend in 2020 ? Some say yes they will sign FA's and go for it. However , then why hold Robert and Madrigal down? Why not get them up and acclimated for next year ? If held down how many combined games do they miss next year ? 40 ? 50 ? and then brought up to then get acclimated ? Does that sound like a team that wants to win next year ?

That's real smart. Eliminate yourself from drafting a hall of famer like Frank Thomas. Probably the best Sox draft pick ever.

I mean, I can't think of any other examples of any players that Machado might have been familiar with and known well failing to get to a 525 PA vesting option at age 32 after being acquired by the White Sox, can you?

I don’t think it was a con per se, but they weren’t going to pay the going rate IMO. I think they were very comfortable finishing in second. They didn’t he try for Harper, even though fake insider bucket of suck said they loved their position with him. The Nate Jones trade was very telling. The Rangers and Cubs are acquiring bonus money. The Sox would rather save $3 million than perhaps sign a player or players that may help them some day. The bottom line is all that really matters no matter how much White Sox owners have seen their net worth rise through the years.

No I think the FO is a bunch of clowns. I think they put a $175 million offer on the table in January and leaked it to the press thinking that it was an overwhelming offer and that no one else was going to be anywhere close to that, and that after that point they thought they were bidding against themselves and doing Machado's side a favor. I think they put like a $200 million offer on the table just before Soxtalk and thought they were going to get it done with that offer, which is why we had so many leaks of something happening right beforehand. When they got up to $250 million they thought they were bidding against themselves, they were told another team had a higher offer and didn't believe it, and then threw a temper tantrum in the press when someone actually put a fair, $300 million offer on the table. I think they genuinely thought "$175 million offered" would scare away other teams, when it did the exact opposite. I think they have no idea how to value players, overall.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football. I know he will fall on his ass. If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign. Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent". They really need new ownership.

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time.

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen. But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take. Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.