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Caulfield: God help the Sox if they do these things. Also Caulfield: The under .500 Padres might be ok next year due to a AA pitcher that regressed and several pitchers coming back from severe injuries.

ok caulfield

I mean, sure, in hindsight this all seems crystal clear, but: - Is a 0.52 ERA sustainable? Probably not. But I'd argue that just as few people anticipated an ERA over 5 the rest of the way. - I feel like the closer vs non-closer argument didn't really gain traction until well after the trade when we were looking for answers for his struggles. - He had 39 appearances in the 2021 season with the Cubs, but only 19 of those were vs the NL Central. And if you want to remove the Reds from that, as your point indicates, 14 of his 39 appearances were against the rest of the weak hitting NL Central. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=kimbrcr01&t=p&year=2021 Was it a bad trade? Of course. It turned out to be an absolutely awful trade. You could argue they gave up too much, ignored larger areas of need at the deadline in favor of this, and stubbornly mismanaged Kimbrel down the stretch and I'd completely agree with you. But I'm not on board with the argument that they should have foreseen this type of implosion coming for the reasons you say.

Situated just blocks from the west coast of Lake Michigan . . .

If we sign a LEGIT RF or 2B, I am fine with the other being in-house or dumpster dive signing. Ala, if we sign Semien for 2B, I am fine with Engel/Sheets. If we sign Conforto, I am fine with Leury/Romy/Hernandez

So now you are saying the advanced metrics are wrong and the eye test is correct? People make him out to be Yermin Mercedes behind the plate, yet his advanced metrics say he is way better than that. This was the first season since 2013 he didnt throw out baserunners at an above average rate. Plus he was injured for probably the whole year. I am glad the Sox have him. He is the best Sox catcher since Carlton Fisk, and Fisk was only better than the beat up 2021 Grandal a couple of seasons, if that. If Yas is a problem, the White Sox have nothing to worry about.

Sorry but have to get back on Grandal topic. You can quote war or whatever stats you want, but Grandal is absolutely horrible on defense, horrible. This didn’t become clear until we heard other announcers beyond Steve and Jason not just telling the management line. Didn’t I hear, pretty sure I did, that this year Sox were last in the majors in both passed balls and wild pitches (in other words, pitches in the dirt that Grandal didn't block). Last in baseball. Also, didn’t I also hear that Sox were worst in majors at throwing out base stealers. Pretty sure I heard that too. Now I know pitchers have to hold runners close, but still most of that is still on the catcher. Last in pass balls/ wild pitches and last in throwing out runners, last; but yet somehow according to war or some other stat, Grandal is a good defensive catcher. How is that possible? When we complain about bad trade or signings, signing Grandal and chasing out McCanns has to be near the top.

When pitchers can't throw breaking pitches because the catcher cannot handle them it becomes an issue.

Dude. A subscription to The Athletic is so cheap. I don't know how any fan that consumes sports media doesn't already have a subscription. It's excellent.

Sox fans would say he doesn't walk enough. I looked up his trade info, and Miami traded Duval for a journeyman catcher named Alex Jackson. Not sure what Miami/Jeter were thinking.

I consider all of this to be completely your opinion. My opinion is that he’s the best catcher I’ve ever seen play for the Sox. I was alive for Fisk but my only real memories were mainly centered around ordering The Carlton Fisk n Chips from the Charley Horse in Orland.

Sure bring politics into a baseball game thread. Some of us would like to just enjoy the games.

Another Leury with elite defense but limited offense...and isn't an outfielder.

That's the larger problem, even when they make correct - looking FA moves and "win the offseason," the subsequent results haven't matched the hype...from Dunn to Cabrera/Robertson/La Roche all the way through the trade deadline this year. The exceptions being the Big 3 trades for prospects and then Luis Robert, as well as intl. free agents like Abreu. And, this past year, pretty much nobody thought adding Eaton was wise. The biggest move in retaining Rodon was the least expected to pan out but lowest risk at least. And then Lynn, but his repeatability late career now is up in the air, just like Keuchel's.

Yep, $22.5M is his tag plus $1M 2023 buyout. 2B plus RF are holes, but they remain holes with Profar and or Myers. Rather have the flexibility to sign a solid FA option, then sign Kimbrel and flip for expensive garbage. Kimbrel should be good next year, now that he built his innings back up. However, it makes no sense to keep him in terms of roster construction. You can’t spend $30M-$35m on a bullpen unless you’re the Dodgers / well over $200M. That’s been my primary concern with the Grandal signing ($18.3M of a $120M-$140M payroll). More palatable if they bump total payroll to the $180M-$200M range.

Just googled Preller. He is one good looking dude.

I thought it went without saying that the last question was a joke But in all seriousness, it is striking that the board has gone from pining for Springer plus Bauer to hoping we can just sign Michael Conforto. The chasm between hope and reality has narrowed considerably.

I think the issue was when he was signed, he was billed as being defensively a stud. I don’t care what stats people produce when you watch a game, he’s really bad behind the plate.

Sir, have you met us and/or the White Sox front office? In the unlikely scenario they make the correct moves, people here will not be happy.

I think a lot of other MLB teams agree with you.

I think when you compare Grandal to Collins and/or Zavala, he looks amazing. But I’d rather have an average bat behind the plate who is a GG fielder, which he is not.

I can just see Rick Hahn giving a shoutout to Soxtalk in the presser. Lol

Better suggestion is for you to put a in sock in these attention-seeking smears of one of the most highly-regarded Sox players of all time.

First off, it's $16 million. Secondly, they have a closer. Thirdly, unlike the Cubs, they can re-direct that money elsewhere. The Cubs were dumping salary. Hopefully, the White Sox are not. I am not a Kimbrel hater. I liked that they acquired him. I didn't like what they paid, and I always was convinced they weren't going to keep him around for 2022. I assumed he would be decent enough to get something. But now, if I am a team looking for a closer, I am not giving up a decent package and paying the freight. I will wait until April or May and see how he's doing, and see how desperate KW and RH are about their over $30 million 8th and 9th innings. I can only remember a couple of easy innings he had in a White Sox uniform.

I know it’s just speculation but I don’t see Hahn leaving. I don’t think he’s happy with how the managerial search played out but I don’t think he’s going to jump ship after the rebuild is over. I can see maybe a few of the coaches being fired but nothing major in the front office. Most likely Boston will be fired and maybe McEwing for some of his bonehead calls sending runners home.

I don’t care what he says. What I do care about is if there are any major announcements like a coach leaving, which is what we got last year when they waited a long time to have the wrap up.

The Cubs released Schwarber because they didn't want to pay him $8M. He went on to have a monster season and they just let him walk out the door for nothing. It was an incredibly short-sighted decision because they were scared of the money. If the Sox decline Kimbrel's option and let him walk out the door for nothing they would be making the same stupid mistake the Cubs made. I don't think they're going to be that short-sighted.

What does “evaluating the team” mean in this context and why does it take so long?

Vaughn, Burger, Dalquist or Thompson and Adolfo for Bryan Reynolds. I know that probably doesn't get it done...but one thing that would- Crochet & Vaughn. Eloy, Robert, Reynolds is by far the best outfield in baseball in all aspects. Bryan is a switch hitter, and he is about to get expensiveish so you know Pirates will be listening. Eloy can move to DH or even 1st base IF Cespedes figures things out for 2023 and while losing Vaughn will suck, as long as Pito is on this team he has no place. Burger is gone since Montgomery and Kath are the future 3B / SS depth and Yoan and Anderson are locked until that happens. If Crochet isn't in the rotation by mid next season...what is really his value? what a mismanagement by the FO and capitalize now if you can. I hate to have to push the deal to reality with Garrett, but Reynolds solves almost every need and you go cheap on the 2nd base option then.

Merkin confirmed Boob's report that Sox will pick up Kimbrel's option. Didn't opine on trading him, but I think its safe to assume that is plan. Seemed noteworthy enough to bump this thread as many felt Sox will/should buy him out, and obviously, Boob isn't the most trustworthy reporter around.

MiLB deal with an option for 23

^^^ Hahn would never.

We actually have a trade comp that is somewhat recent. Abreu has outperformed Anthony Rizzo the last 2 seasons but Rizzo was better in 2019, and their salaries are comparable. Rizzo is a lefty and that filled a major need for the Yankees. Rizzo returned a 24 year old injured pitcher from their 40 man roster with a career minor league ERA of 5 and a BB/9 IP this year of just about 9, and a 19 year old international signing from A-Ball who had solid numbers this year but who averages under 2 pitches per plate appearance so he has some work to do before having a game that will translate to the big leagues. That would have been a fine return for the 2016 White Sox for a player, but it’s hard to see how that return would make a substantial dent in the 2022 White Sox.

I will add if there’s a way to somehow retain Rodon & sign Conforto, that would be beyond amazing and I’d totally be ok with dumpster diving at 2B and the final spot or two in the bullpen.

Ok. Since 2019, Grandal ranks: WAR: 2nd Defensive Rating: 7th GP: 4th You and Rob might want to find a different player to me statistically wrong criticisms about

Can we get a new hitting coach please? One that shows these guys how to hit the ball in the air?

just imagine the shitstorm if they were cheating again, i dont think they are, but that would be the biggest news story in american sports history

Really? How do you know? A young kid growing into his power that has a great approach at the plate. I'm not included in the "all" that would trade him as a third piece in a trade.

huh I thought he was 6'5...seeing 6'4 is less appealing.

They signed Eaton on December 10. For $8M guaranteed. And cut him with pay in mid July. Eloy is not an OF. If he can't DH, move him while he still has value.

Have you ever considered what Brantley wanted to do? Or it Hahn's fault that Brantley wanted to play where he has been for the last few years where they have competed annually? Should he have uprooted his family to leave that situation to split LF/DH with Eloy? There are 30 teams. To act like the Sox are failures in hindsight that they didn't bring in a guy who was happy in his situation when we have someone in his position is crazy.

Agree. Plus at some point Jose will retire / be let go, which would open up 1B for Vaughn and an OF spot for Cespedes / Colas. And honestly, zero problem with those guys being depth for a couple of years and having to earn spots. Would be an excellent problem to have.

Off the top of my head, there are... four domes? Tokyo dome (Giants), PayPay Dome (Hawks), Nagoya Dome (Lions, which, look that place up, it's actually an OUTDOOR dome. A concrete bowl but with open walls. It's supposedly just miserable -- hot and extremely humid in the summer, freezing and drafty in the winter), and Sapporo Dome (Fighters). The rest, I believe, are outdoors. Also, interestingly, NPB teams typically play 20 or so games a year in "regional" stadiums that are in their general region but far enough from the main city that those people don't get into see them play easily. IIRC, only a few of the teams actually own their stadiums, so the relationship between the teams and the place they play is more like an events contract, so there's more freedom to "tour," but also far fewer revenue streams. The trend is, unsurprisingly, team are moving more in the direction of building and owning their stadiums to make more money as time goes on.

Boston should not have been allowed to remain as first base coach. That is on Rich Hahn and Kenny Williams, and Reinsdorf, if he knew about the rape allegations. At the end of the day, the GM is ultimately responsible for the day to day operation of the team. Hahn presided over years of ineffective Managing by Robin Ventura who had no business being a Manager in the first place. Hahn also knew about LaRoach having his kid in the dugout , on the training field and did nothing about it. He then sat by idly as KW finally confronted LaRoach man to man and cleaned it up. Hahn also shirked from confronting Chris Sale and Adam Eaton for their antics. Hahn proved himself to be a coward and a blowhard. Multiple championships? OK.

Hinch should have been banned from baseball for life for managing a team he knew was cheatiing. That is potentially worse than gambling on baseball. Gambling, if one bets to lose and throws games, as was the (unproven) allegation in the Black Sox scandal, is worse, but what the Astros did was outrageous. Hinch and Cpra should not be in the league. The investigation into the Astros cheating should have been turned over to the FBI given that baseball now involves legal gambling and the implications for that cheating were far greater than they were in 1919. How about all the money law lawfully bet on games by sports betters who had no know;edge that the Astros had a decided edge from cheating? LaRussa did as well as any Manager would have given the circumstances - prominent players injured (Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Grandal), and a pitching staff that under-performed based on expectations. That entire episode where LaRussa was upset when Mercedes ignored a take sign to show up an opponent was overblown and people who chided LaRussaa were wrong, dead wrong. Compare what Boston Manager Cora did when Rodriguez mimicked Carlos Correa last night. He . like LaRussa, did not countenance conduct by a player who took it upon himself to show up the opposition. Mercedes was actually more blatant given his refusal to obey a take sign to embellish his own statistics.

Not at all. No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No In a historic occurrence in an effort to continue playing baseball during a work shortage, Jerry will sign the following in order to play 2022 baseball: @Chisoxfn @CaliSoxFanViaSWside @Balta1701 @fathom @southsider2k5 @greg775 @JoeCredeYes @Greg Hibbard @queerty The following will be denied from a roster spot: @hi8is @ron883 @Tony @Jack Parkman The GM will be @WBWSF or whoever that lovely fan is that writes Jerry petitioning for an interview all the time. As such, expect the 2022 White Sox to win exactly 0 games. This is exactly how next year will go down.

This is so vomit inducing bad: https://southsideshowdown.com/2021/10/15/chicago-white-sox-3-fair-trade-packages-craig-kimbrel/amp/