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Carlos Rodon is currently 1st in fWAR amongst all pitchers. Rick Hahn passed on offering him a QO, which would have secured him for the 2023 season at $18.5M or resulted in the addition of a compensation pick. Instead, this was his actual plan: Signed Kendall Graveman to 3/$24M - 0.6 fWAR Signed Joe Kelly to 2/$17M - 0.4 fWAR Signed Leury Garcia to 3/$16.5M - (1.1) fWAR Signed Josh Harrison to 1/$5.5M - 1.3 fWAR Signed Vince Velasquez to 1/$3M - 0.2 fWAR Acquired AJ Pollock ($11.5M salary) - 0.7 fWAR Acquired Reese McGuire ($0.4 salary) - 0.4 fWAR So for a total of ~$42M in spend for the 2023 season, Rick Hahn was able to acquire 2.5 fWAR. That’s $16.8M per win and in areas that usually provide the least marginal value. Things look far worse when you consider Rodon would have only cost $3.2M per win and would have required only 44% of those funds. Also, those ROI figures don’t even account for the following: The $36M in commitments beyond the 2023 season to three guys who combined for negative fWAR this year (Graveman, Kelly, & Garcia) The $13M we’re on the hook for now for a 35 year old OF who has a poor track record of health and who no longer appears to be able to hit RHP The fact Joe Kelly was going to be severely limited for the first two months of the season and still gave him one of the biggest reliever contracts in FA The “pitching depth” that Hahn prioritized coming out of the lockout have a +6 ERA (Kelly) & +5 ERA (VV) TLDR - Rick Hahn is really fucking bad at his job and needs to be fired ASAP.

Can you blame them? A manager they liked got fired and replaced with a 77 year old alcoholic. When they won 93 games despite him, their front office gave their worst player a 3 year deal, traded for an outfielder who can't hit RHP and isn't that good in the outfield, and signed a reliever who was injured. The hitters are being coached by someone who is coaching them counter to their natural talents, and their training staff can't keep them healthy. Why should they give 100% when nobody else in the organization is?

Talk s%*# get hit. The Sox thought they could cruise and they were wrong

Yeah I'm definitely hoping Cleveland gets swept in the first round now.

I didn’t get too much past Sheets and Vaughn playing any outfield next year- or ever again. But I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Lmfaoooo

Come on, Hahn has had far too many chances here. He sucks at his job. Best thing he does is get people to believe he has no power.

Here's the plan...hear me out...SELL THE TEAM.

I get all this and it's all true, but let's focus just on the stuff Hahn should reasonably control in his position - the scouting, player dev and analytics part of the org. By the end of 2016, the sox decided for a rebuild. Probably would have been a good time to retool the organization in that end. To 'modernize' (Rick Hahn decided to start modernizing 3 years into his tenure apparently), he entrusted Nick Hostetler to run the amateur scouting. He entrusted Chris Getz to run Player Dev. Analytics he just decided to use vendors basically. Those guys were already in their position. Getz took over in the midst of a revolution of player development technologies and techniques. He has done admirably imo in trying to keep up with it. But, I don't know, if I was serious about winning I may have tried to go after some of those who had natively ushered in this revolution, not a guy who spent a year in player dev in the famously old school Dayton Moore org. We've certainly been better in player dev - considering hahn set-up this rebuild with a bunch of high variance guys, Getz did get them to the big leagues and got big performances out of Giolito and Cease. He was an improvement over the white sox, but is he running a top ten unit in baseball? I say no. I think, in contrast to Hahn, that the sox should try to be the best at things. Hostetler took over for Laumann, who run the draft during a more difficult era for sox drafting, and did struggle to create depth. Laumann (2007-2015) during his tenure drafted one of the best pitchers of the decade (sale), a cy young candidate (rodon), a multiple time all star shortstop (TA), a top 5 mvp finisher and multi-time all star (Semien). His failure was drafting players that sometimes washed out before the majors. Hostetlers expert plan was to get more players that would wash out in the majors. Despite always having a full set of picks, and some of the highest draft positions the sox have ever consistently had, we are leaving his draft years of 2016-2019 with a sub-20 home run hitting first baseman possible starter. But that's not fair since he also got us some fringe serviceable relievers. But we have heard he also "modernized" the unit so that's cool. Last we heard hostetler moved to the mlb scouting side to help us with free agency. We've been as good there. And in international, Paddy has certainly found us some talent, finally seeing some depth accumulate on the position player side, highlighted by Jose Rodriguez, Lenyn Sosa, Oscar Colas and more. However, for some reason we have been signing incredibly small classes, led by the single most infuriating class, 2019 group. This was the group we thought would be huge since for 3 years we were under penalty, so what other class would we work on? Well, we signed Yolbert Sanchez, a slap hitting 22 year old for $2.5 million. For that amount, you can get slap hitting defensive players in the big leagues, but we got em for that sweet deal. He's currently slap hitting up a storm in AAA. His defense does look pretty sweet though. So all of the above is just horrible. Contrast it with how a very similar GM in DiPoto pivoted Seattle to be very tech forward in player dev, and revamped scouting. They arrived as a competitive team still harboring a top 5 farm, which allowed them to get a Luis Castillo. By the time sox arrived, the cupboard was bare. We had to trade mlb assets to get a closer, then a pitcher. Subsequently, the pitching we had in AAA and AA was worse then you'd find in the SEC on a friday.

IT hurts, hurts really bad. I would say bulletin board material for next year but I don't think anybody on the sox cares.

Or they are just mocking a piss poor run organization

Proves they’re not very bright. Why the hell would they want Tony fired?

Tony LaRussa and Bob Nightengale

The Angels and Red Sox were the only non-playoff teams to spend more money per win than the White Sox. Payroll is not the issue. Hahn's horrible decision making and inability to understand how to build a baseball team is the issue. We have a long track resord of this.

It would be the most JR thing ever to intentionally blow up a decent team by sticking Tony as its manager, just so he could rebuild again and save a few bucks.

Haven't posted in some time, but I still read frequently. Been an active Sox fan for 31 years now, and this is the most disgusted I've ever been with the team. Honestly, if it wasn't for Frank Thomas and those early 90s teams, I'm not sure I would have ever latched on. Objectively speaking, this franchise is easily bottom quartile in management top to bottom past the inaugural phase of my fandom. Watching them continue to fall further and further behind the competition is a prime exercise in soul-sucking. I stopped watching all Sox games over a month ago for the first time in my life during any season no matter how bad they were. The first week, I still flipped over to check the score, but I've managed to go cold turkey since. I promised myself I would not watch a single second of Sox baseball unless TLR was fired. My kids are now at a very impressionable age and are playing little league. We have an annual pre-planned trip to the ballpark where they're generally showered with Sox gear. Had I not bought tickets during the pre-season, there's a good chance we would not have attended this year. I bought them ZERO Sox items at the ballpark. If there isn't a significant house-cleaning this offseason, I'm officially boycotting. I'll take the kids to the Brewers game instead as it's about equidistant to get there for us. I see no reason to submit my kids to this lifetime of suffering following a miserable, regressive organization.

Rick Hahn absolutely fucking sucks. The Rodon move alone should get his ass fired. White Sox qualify Rodon and they make the playoffs this season. I'm guessing that wasn't all his decision, though. You know that cheap mother fucker Reinsdorf probably didn't want to pay him.

It probably looks worse in bWAR cause Joe Kelly would be a huge negative WAR value with his 6+ ERA. 0.4 fWAR isn't really representative of his actual results this year. Edit: Kelly is worth -0.6 bWAR and Graveman is worth 0.7 bWAR. Those 2 combined got paid $16.5 million this year and produced an awesome 0.1 bWAR. We still owe them a combined $24.5 million for the rest of their contracts too....amazing. If it wasn't for Lynn getting hurt and signing Cueto, this would probably be one of the worst off-seasons in White Sox history. Imagine just lighting $40 million on fire. That's basically what Hahn did.

Had a member of the mainstream Chicago media e-mail me last night and say the Sox have become the laughingstock of baseball.

While we see some of it on here, and especially on Twitter, it's baffling the number of people who have STILL not recognized that TLR lost this team/clubhouse last season. Players gave him a few months of a fair chance and quickly realized their manager is wholly unrelatable, ignorant of today's game, low-energy, and a narcissist. They quit on him last season and this season was just the exclamation point. I believe it got SO bad that they didn't just quit on TLR, they quit on the franchise. I do believe there was a concerted effort to play so badly that the FO would have to dump TLR. All season we've complained about the lack of passion, stupid mistakes, poor approaches at the plate, and lack of hustle. Those are ALL things that happen when a team no longer gives a s%*# about wins or losses. We have very few impact players who aren't locked up long-term so it's not like they're playing for a contract. Pride went out the window when they felt/knew the franchise put TLR's ego above all else. This was not a BAD roster coming into the season. Potential holes were exacerbated by injuries and poor performance but there are very few who didn't have this team winning the Central and, even in the national press, the Sox were considered WS contenders heading into Opening Day. From Rick Hahn on down to Frank Menechino on down to TA, we saw what the kids these days apparently call "quiet quitting". The, "yeah, I'll collect a paycheck but my employer is showing me no loyalty so I'm going to do the absolute bare minimum until they fire me" form of quitting. And people will point to this homestand as proof that Cairo was no better than TLR. Bullshit. The Sox were playing pretty good ball, best ball of the season. Tip your hat to Cleveland that they kept winning. Once Sox lost that first game to CLE, the season was over. We knew it. They knew it. Everyone knew it. Did we really expect effort after that loss? I know I didn't....I haven't watched a single pitch since that game.

"This group of players has quit and is not playing hard anymore" When were they playing hard at all this season?

I love it. Good for The Guardians and exactly what our horse s%*# organization deserves.

Does everyone remember how last year there was the occasional rumor that the Bears wouldn’t fire their GM after a debacle of a season because they liked him or how he was helping with the new stadium? Let alone keeping Nagy when the fans were chanting weekly to fire him? Could you imagine the response of at the end of the year the owner said Im in charge and everyone stays? The McCaskey family is a better ownership group than this.

Rick Hahn's punishment for being a decisively terrible GM and roster builder should be to manage the White Sox next year.

In the event you'd all like to throw up in your mouths a bit more as the season drags out.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C4dU46AiC_pt1GtzakmASUg9UD_UnpG32kdRZ3clOnk/edit#gid=1520401900 Lots of dead weight to carry into 2023 and beyond. In quite the cluster f*** RickyGM finds himself. Pollock, Graveman, Grandal, Kelly, Leury, Diekman, Harrison, Bummer = $41,250,000 towards 2023 payroll. 41.25m == -0.3 WAR. (edit... errr. 2022 WAR and 2023 salary... sorry!) I don't understand how in the world Rick Hahn is still employed by the White Sox. If I was this incompetent at my job, I would have been run out of my profession years ago.

Colas 3 for 3 with a double. There’s you starting right fielder folks.

Eloy vs The Wall seems to agree which is a good sign.

It was supposed to be an OF of Eloy, Luis, and AJ with Vaughn at DH. That's not an awful OF. You can criticize the decision to rely on Eloy staying healthy out there but he's signed to a sizable contract and we paid him to play the OF. Luis and Eloy's health, coupled with AJ and Engel's regressions, kind of forced our hand into having AV in the OF. The Pollock trade, looking at his L/R splits coming into this season, was a shrewd move. It didn't work out as we'd hoped, but on paper the logic behind the deal was 100% solid. Who could have predicted such unprecedented regressions from Yas and Yo (two guys I personally believe were 100% in the "f*** this s%*#" camp due to the TLR hire)?!?! We were forced to move Gavin out there as players kept getting hurt and needed a lefty stick in the lineup. We lost an absolutely key bullpen piece when Crochet went down. Bummer, as the backup LHRP, being out a significant portion of the season sure as hell didn't help. Kelly was 100% a TLR signing and you can't convince me otherwise (same with Leury). PECOTA set us at 94 expected wins. Vegas had our O/U set at 91.5 wins. Thin? I'll give you that. Overrated roster? Nah, cannot grant you that. This was a team who had a manager actively working against them.

I'll stick with the Orioles and the minor leagues if this ends up happening.

The fact that there is a debate about LaRussa is amazing. I can't imagine fans wanting to spend hard-earned money to go the ballpark knowing that LaRussa is the dugout. This just shows how bad things are in this organization. Do they want another year of weird decisions and slurred press conferences?

Yeah, the payroll looks good in terms of total value, but JR also limits what kind of long-term money the FO can spend. Which in turn limits the types of players they can go after. We know JR won't give any mega-deals out, so now we're left with a hand-full of big deals to mid-level free agent types and almost every one of them has blown up in their face. Keuchel and Grandal's deals are now disastrous contracts. Keuchel might be off the books, but we wasted $36 million on him these last 2 years to get below replacement level innings. Grandal, unless he miraculously gets healthy again, is a replacement level catcher who can't even catch every day. Hendriks also got a similar level contract, but he's also trending downwards with potential elbow issues down the line. I don't know how Jerry or the FO can sit there with a straight face and tell any of us those investments were better than spending the $300+ million needed to land either Harper or Machado. The 3 aforementioned contracts with Kelly and Graveman added already sits at a total commitment of $222 million over about a 5 year span. Please tell me how that's better than getting 5+ years of prime production from Harper or Machado.

Bochy is just more of the same. Let's get a guy who isn't retirement age, has some fire and an understanding of today's game. It just really shouldn't be that hard.

First off, someone is a parent when they produce offspring. It has absolutely nothing to do with marriage. Nothing in the definition of the word parent includes marriage. Nothing in the legal definition of parent, includes marriage. Two people can, and indeed are parents, when they have a child. So, no. That's not a "belief" at all... It's just a fact. Marriage is a religious and social construct that actually has absolutely nothing at all to do with being a parent. Second, nobody was saying that. There was no "agnostic" person sharing their beliefs, while silencing the "religious person". Why do Evangelicals in this country feel the need to constantly push their beliefs on others (Dayton Moore is a perfect example)? And why do they have this persecution complex when someone tells them it's not appropriate? Only one side was spouting off about their religious beliefs and forcing them onto others within the workplace with that anti-porn nonsense. Judging people who have a child out of wedlock, when the only difference between them and a married couple with a child is a stupid piece of paper, is holier than thou bullshit that has no place in this century. Religious beliefs should be kept out of the workplace(and government, but we're not going to get into that). That's the entire point here. Plus, Dayton Moore is a fucking hypocrite, who defended a guy who molested his six year old niece, and never showed remorse or atoned for it. This, while claiming that porn is basically at the root of evil(lol). Dayton Moore’s comments on Luke Heimlich draw backlash - Royals Review Seems to me his religion is just another way for him to look down on others and claim moral superiority. But we're way off topic now.

Call me crazy but I expected effort, that's what being a very highly paid professional means doesn't it?

Yawn.... Hahn will lawyer talk his year ending press conference and everyone's ass with smoke. I'm the meantime ol uncle Jerry is counting his money laughing while Kenny screws himself to his seat even tighter..... If this org had a Fucking clue these people should be gone... Kenny Hahn Thome Getz Larussa Boston Mcewing Menechino Clark Whoever the scouting director is And maybe Cairo and katz

That is correct and would be Melody Hobson, the second and current wife of billionaire George Lucas. She is 53 years old and is a black woman. She grew up in Chicago and went to St Ignatius HS and has a degree from Princeton University, from the Woodward Wilson School Of International Relations and Public Policies. Additionally she was awarded the University's highest honor, the Woodward Wilson Award, presented to the Princeton graduate whose career embodies a commitment to national service. Her background is beyond extensive and strong and would be an excellent owner: She has received Honorary Doctorate degrees from: Howard University Johns Hopkins University St. Mary’s College University of Southern California. Currently works as: - CEO of Ariel Investments, a 15 billion dollar company headquartered in Chicago. - Vice Chairwoman of Starbucks Corporation - Vice Chairwoman of World Business Chicago - Former Chairwoman of DreamWorks Animation - On the Board of Directors for: - JP Morgan Chase - George Lucas Education Foundation - Bloomberg Philanthropies - Los Angeles County Museum of Art - Rockefeller Foundation Board of Trustees In 2020, she was listed on the Forbes list of the World's 100 Most Powerful Women. She has an estimated net worth on her own of 100 million. Obviously she is married to her husband George who has an estimated net worth of 5.1 billion. Now that she owns 30% of the White Sox! It's seems fairly obvious with her Chicago ties and background, she is hopefully interested and prepared to buy the majority of the White Sox when our idiot owner Reinsdorf finally decides to sell or passes away. To me this would be a major home run and no-brainer some day with her intelligence, business savvy and experience and deep pockets. Yeah, I don't know, but I think that might be a lot better for Sox fans than dumbf*#k JR ?

If you think we need an outfielder, then you aren’t a real White Sox fan.

He deserves a lot of the blame but it’s hard to put it all on him when JR was making choices over his head about the manager… then allowing that manager to make GM type decisions on free agents and trade targets. Hahn and KW biffed the rebuild when they traded for the bird man closer hack job. Didn’t help that they followed that brilliance up by failing to sign a proper left fielder, right fielder, second baseman, and starting pitcher for depth. I’ll always be curious how many of those choices were a function of Bologna’s input. Could absolutely see him telling everyone they “had it already” with Leury being the man for second and Eloy / Vaughn being a viable solution for the corner outfield spots. They all need to go. f*** ‘em.

This is like being constipated and instead of taking ex-lax, you reach for cyanide.

The future is you need to take care of yourself and hope to outlive JR and see what happens under new ownership.

You reap what you sow says the Bible. The White Sox got what they deserved.

Play it on repeat baby….

Good, they deserve it

Man the entire Reinsdorf family should be embarrassed. The entire front office shouldn’t be able to sleep at night. I’m embarrassed as a fan. What a joke. Sell the fucking team if your number 1 priority isn’t winning. Cash the f*** out and let somebody take over who wants to win. I refuse to spend another dime on this team until they make some serious changes.

data:image/svg+xml,%3csvg%20xmlns=%27http://www.w3.org/2000/svg%27%20version=%271.1%27%20width=%2716%27%20height=%2713%27/%3e James Fegan · 5h 36m ago STAFF There’s always a difference between what you’ve heard and what’s firm enough to report. But I consulted with Ken on that piece. We’ve both heard about the hitting coaches not seeing eye to eye with TLR on plate approach. The don’t run hard edict was TLR going out on his own and didn’t sit well with others. The 1-2 intentional walks aren’t agreed with by anyone in the org, especially not the pitching coach who thinks count leverage is about the most important things in baseball. Leury basically disappeared out of the lineup once TLR stepped away. The starting catcher has been grousing about playing time all year

I posted in another thread they can’t possibly make Cairo the manager now. Total surrender. Very unprofessional.

Whatever idiot runs NBC Sports White Sox Twitter deserves this smoke.

Perhaps the most frustrating part of this season was the fans calling out this team very early, and the front office, broadcast booth, and a good portion of the media told us to "calm down, they'll be fine."