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yikes https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kopech-turns-to-rubble/ The fact that Katz hasn't been fired yet is actually remarkable.

They're gonna make a lot of short sighted moves in the coming months if they don't get Hahn and Haber the f*** out of that building.

Shortsighted, dumb organization. Stretch the kid into a starter we need starters BADLY.

For the situation they are in, that Benintendi deal is ugly.

I have no idea how anyone could think Crochet could possibly hold up as a starter.

If the plan is to remain disciplined and strech him into 2-4 inning appearances over the remaining 4 1/2 months, than that will hopefully build a legitimate base of innings so that he can start 25 or so games next season. Need to allow him to work on 3-4 pitches so he can pitch effectively in a starting role. Can also determine whether he will have the capacity to exist as a starter at the ML level, can convert him to high leverage after this tryout period. It's good Tony isn't here and there is nothing left to play for so they can possibly have Crochet reach his full potential without worrying about current needs.

Kopech's one OK season was in 2022 under Katz. Lucas worked with Katz before his 2019 season, had solid seasons in 2021 and now 2023, also under Katz. Cease had his first good season in 2021 and first great one in 2022, both under Katz. Rodon finally put it all together in 2021, under guess who. But sure, fire Katz. Sounds like a Rick Hahn plan. Good luck with that.

Team pitching WAR in 2023 is 1.5, good for 26th in baseball. 4.11 BB/9 is good for 29th in baseball. Team 5.55 ERA is good for 29th in baseball. Team FIP of 5.04 is good for 29th in baseball. But sure, keep Katz. This is fine and nothing is on fire. ...The good news is he will be an excellent scapegoat.

I’d rather watch Big Frank hit in a wheel chair than these guys

It’s because he cut his hair. It transformed him from golden god to superdork overnight

Nellie Fox, Dick Allen, Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko.

He's playing hurt. It's pretty obvious

Just start Burger at 3B and start Moncada at 2B and try to have a 2023 version of the South side Hit Men. Late in the game they can move Moncada back to 3B and put Andrus in at 2B for defense.

Gavin takes his frustration with that BS call out on a baseball.

Trade everyone

Kopech, Giolito and Cease were all considered top prospects. Taking a full season to get Giolito back on track not once, but twice already in his career isn't really anything to brag about, considering his talent level. Rodon put it together because he didn't get hurt. He looked damn good before Katz got here for the brief periods that he pitched healthy. Kopech is what he is. But development at the big league level is non existent. Not a win for Katz, but probably not a loss either. Until recently Cease has been Katz's one big success story. That isn't enough. Coop may have been a jerk and outlasted his welcome, but he certainly didn't have only one success story every three + years.

One of the most frustrating things as a fan is watching a GM group in over their head compound errors in a last ditch effort to save face. It's like GarPax bringing in the "three amigos".

Honestly he might be one of the 15-20% or so that never really bounces back from TJS. You add in all his lower body injuries the last couple years, his questionable mental makeup (at least for performing on the baseball field) and it's yet another reminder of TINSSAAPP.

what is going on here

Thanks for changing the title. As usual all the wild hot takes come early and the more reasonable ones come later. I did come back to thank you and to say just how strange the internet is to have someone start a controversy just by suggesting that if TA said he hated this place ,they wouldn't blame him. I don't know if that's the tweet that started it. It seemed like the tweeter knew that's not what he said but only suggested that if he said it he would be right. How that got turned into he actually said he hated this place, I have absolutely no idea. But then to see people arguing that it made more sense that he said " place" rather than " pitch clock" based on the game situation blows my mind. Dudes you're arguing that something made sense to be true from a starting point of something wasn't even true to start with just to pile more controversy onto a player who really doesn't need falsities created to his already controversial persona. We get it. The Sox are in a very bad place and TA hasn't been the TA of 20??- 2021 for a while, but really ? This never should have become a thing. It's literally putting words in someone's mouth and attempting to argue that it could be true because of how you think that person must be thinking because you'd be thinking that way if ,instead of being a fat slob on the couch watching sports and fantasizing of being him, that's exactly what you would say, instead of pass me the cheese dip. SMH.

I dont agree with people on this board complaining about defense but then support a move like this. I would most certainly have Eloy in the outfield than Burger at 3B and Yoan at 2B. It doesnt make any sense. Burger is a great story but Im not sold yet. He is very much held up by his large slugging percentage and his K rate is still too high to count on any consistant production. Keep Yoan where he is at. He is having a good season thus far.

With some assumptions (losing Giolito, not picking up Lance Lynn and Joe Kelly option) Sox save potentially $43.525 million from ‘23 to ‘24. But increases in Sox players contracts are $29 million from ‘23 to ‘24. Chunk of that is Moncada and Benintendi contracts increases Therefore, a savings of only $14.525 million next year. And Sox still need to sign potentially 2 starters, catcher, 2b and bullpen arms next year. Maybe we stand pat at bullpen, catcher and 2b… but you still have to get two starters. The farm is devoid of starting pitching at the highest level maybe besides Davis Martin for next season. Then you have arbitration eligible players also that will make more money next year like Cease, Kopech and now Vaughn. ? With our losing record, there is no way we don’t trade away assets. No way. There such a pending bloated payroll that the Sox have to get under control for a bad team. It’s inevitable. No doubt we try trading away one year assets like Giolito, Middleton, Lopez, Grandal, Andrus, and Alberto. But only half may have any value. Based on where we stand and where we project next year, you also have to consider trading 2-yr assets like Anderson, Hendriks, Graveman, Clevinger, and Lynn. This is a pretty big crunch coming up and Sox need to free up payroll. It’s coming…

I remember when he first came up. Hitters were glaring at him because he was throwing high heaters at their heads. He wasn't head-hunting; the control wasn't there and there were stories of him in the minors of him being all over the place. Finally, the Sox were hyping him as the savior of the franchise before he threw one major league pitch. This has been a joke.

Don't forget Drone Demolition Night next Saturday. I want 500 drones out there defending freedom and hierarchy.

I can't wait for him to be traded.

They need to re-sign TA to a long term deal imo, like right now. There's nothing for SS beyond CM and he's so far from being ready.

Yeah... By results and how unprepared they are I'd say fire the pitching coach. Sox treat FO/management personnel as stronger commitments than marriage. Katz was good for his first few years wrangling the stuffy but uncommandy arms Hahn had collected. It's not working now. Find someone else. But, also don't fire him and just let them continue to be dumb together, what does it matter.

They'll be hanging out somewhere below .500 but maybe close the distance on the division slightly. Rick Hahn will insist "If we keep playing like this we'll be right there at the end (Rick Hahn, July 2015)." People will defend the decision saying no one would ever sell if they were only 7 games out of the wild card or whatever the number is. They will go into next offseason with $30 million to spend while having to fill 3 starter positions, replace 2 relievers, and having sub-replacement players at several positions. We'll watch the standard $4 million veterans be signed to fill all those positions and people will be super excited next March over all the experienced players they brought in.

As we all sadly realize we can't control the power structure. We are stuck with a POS owner and GM. However as you suggested correctly, the fans could send a message and quit showing up to games, whether they already paid for tickets or not. I really don't give a s%*# if JR still makes money crap, the horrible look of a really empty stadium like the Oakland A's...would send a louder message to this POS owner. The fact is, if that wouldn't make JR make some major changes, then we as Sox fans all totally fucked until JR passes away.

I don't think Kopech struggling is because he didn't come back from TJS successfully. I think it's more if not all, because of his mental makeup you accurately suggested that hurts him. It also doesn't help he has terrible catchers that don't call better pitch sequences, as well as a crappy pitching coach not effectively working with Kopech to fix his flawed mechanics or tweak his slider and curveball.

I did watch Cease last year for every single start and he was awesome. In fact I was at the ballpark for two of his great outings. Having said that, since so many of Dylan's starts were so solid last year, we have to assume he made the big jump to being a #1 stud starter and last year wasn't an aberration. Btw, last year was last year and when you reach greatness as Dylan did, you are expected to take it even to a higher level or at least maintain it. You are not suppose to go backwards. If you do...then early on the pitching coach better correct it quickly. However Dylan has struggled this year and its too many starts to be just an off game here and there. My point is, if Katz was such a great pitching coach, he should have been able to work closer with Dylan already to get the mistakes corrected and get him back to 2022 pitching form. Great pitchers sometimes struggle early in the season. However they usually have some good catchers and pitching coaches that can help tweak and fix the small mistakes. In this case Katz needed to Dylan get back to being that Cy Young runner-up. So yes, all of Katz starters have fallen off outside of Clevinger, which doesn't count. In baseball you are not graded as being a great pitching coach because you did it one year for the pitchers you mentioned. You need to continue the success in all future years and not make it look like you got lucky one time with that pitcher. I sure hope you aren't trying to defend Katz that he is a good pitching coach!

Sorry... why?

Do they check for sticky stuff in the Australian League?

I mean, Cease is having a rough start this season, but did you not watch him last year? Katz should definitely be on the hot seat, but like, Gio, Rodon and Cease all had great turnarounds under him

You FOR SURE have to trade Anderson, Giolito and Henriks (assuming his value is fine) by this deadline.

If they go 58 - 62 the rest of the way, they lose 90 games. Seems like a certainty at this point. These guys are bad, but I don't know if they are 48 - 72 bad to get to 100 losses as currently constructed. That's going to depend on who gets traded near the deadline.

"If a horse can't chew it, I don't want to play on it."

You know that's not happening. I'm looking forward to more trades for bad relievers and middle infielders with an OPS ~.600.

I'm dumb enough to drop a few bucks to see five Aaron Bummer at bats.

Exactly and let's face it, other than the initial off-season miraculous turnaround Katz did in resurrecting Giolito, he hasn't done s%*# since that big year in getting Lucas back on track. Actually all of Katz's starters other than Clevinger, who he didn't have before...have all fallen off drastically.

Only one ROY? weak.

Seeing this posted made me see the one glaring name in the HOF, that makes Dick Allen not being in the HOF a total blatant injustice. Ron Santo - 15 year career - .277/.362/.464/.826, with 342 HR's, 365 doubles, 3779 Total Bases, no MVP or ROY Dick Allen - 15 year career - .292/.378/.534/.912, with 351 HR's, 320 doubles, 3379 Total Bases, one MVP and one ROY. The Baseball Hall of Fame Era Committee formerly known as the Veterans Committee needs to wake up and get their act together and get Dick Allen in.

Once Giolito leaves he very well may be fired.

I think he will be fine. He probably won't be a star but I think he will hit like 270 with 25 Homers in his peak years and probably have a 30 bomb season or 2 two. He isn't Paul goldschmidt or miggy Cabrera but I think he will be a fine average to above average first Baseman (maybe like 5th to 6th best in the AL or so). The team does have other issues than vaughn but sure, his start to his career was a bit underwhelming, you don't want your third overall pick to have negative 1 career war one month into his third season. That being said 2019 was a very bad draft to draft in the top5. If you look at the first round of 2019 it simply looks very bad. Rutschman is clearly the top guy and he seems to be great but behind that it is just bad. Second pick Witt still could be great but so far he only has a 96 career wrc+. JJ bleday took till 25 to even establish in the majors (in the worst team in baseball now) although he looks a bit improved this year. Greene so far is OK but nothing special (a bit better than vaughn though). Cj abrams who many sox fans wanted over vaughn looks terrible too, chases a ton, doesn't walk and has an OK ability to contact the ball but no power to drive it. Some later picks like Manoah, Carroll, baty,kirby and lodolo look decent but they never were considered top5. They just "picked" a bad year to draft high.

Ah, the message board I I was banned from for giving their admins some s%*# after I got bored on the whitesox.com message boards and chat room. I then found Soxtalk and 20 years later I’m still here.

With a second "forearm soreness" issue for Martin since October (he hasn't pitched this year since April 11) you can't count on him for anything next year.

Let's all be reasonable here. We can dislike Timmy at times but he didn't say he hates it here. He hates the pitch clock (which fans love). He still is one of our few multi-hit guys. Has a lotta multi hit games. He's not the best defender but improves there every year and has a good bat. But on this issue? Cmon. He's not evil.

You've been a cancer to White Sox message boards for 25 years. At one time this board existed to get away from posters like you.

Moving Yoan back to 2B is not now nor will it ever be the right thing. Holy s%*# how is this still a thing?

Sheets shouldn't be on the roster if Burger, Vaughn and Eloy are on it. 2B and RF need to be filled by players who can play the position. Yoan is the best 3B and should remain at 3B. No dramatic in season shifts should occur because of Hahn's annual abysmal roster construction and annual holes in RF and 2B. Any transitions of long standing players sinch as Yoan or Tim should be well thought out and agreed to in October to allow players a full offseason to prepare even before Spring Training.