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Look at the idiots who are hiring these guys

This post is Tim Anderson levels of delusion. The fan base is one of the most toxic imaginable, with a reputation for racism. This is the same fan base that boo'd Frank Thomas ffs. That Tim Anderson is the new whipping boy is no coincidence.

25-30 would be an absolute miracle and honestly would probably signal the season isn't over.

It’s obviously too late at this point, but it’s almost like the white sox don’t even know you’re allowed to trade players. I cannot fathom the thought behind developing 8 interesting first basemen at the same time, and trading none of them while allowing yourself to field replacement level players at several positions.

I mean @Chisoxfn and I are both overly optimistic at times, but this team has a unique way of taking every piece of good news and countering it with one or two pieces of bad news. I can't blame people for being jaded when the core built to contend goes .500 in 2022 (after being picked by a number of outlets to be a World Series contender!) and then following that up with a horrific April. But that being said, some complaints are nonsensical - like, the Sox haven't signed Aaron Hicks, so don't complain about it. Yoan Moncada made a music video 3 years ago and people act like he's signed a record deal and is on tour. It was a one-time offseason hobby. If you have problems with that, then get upset about any player that goes hunting. If we want any baseball related activity from that video, at least he stayed in shape, I guess? But as for the operation of the team itself? Be plenty mad about them when they don't perform. Fans have earned that right. They've earned the right to be mad about the team not stocking up on legitimate starting depth past Davis Martin (Scholtens five innings the other day was a godsend) when they should know that all five starters staying health is a rarity - and in this case, six. Especially because Martin got hurt in his last start last year. The Sox are frustrating because there are so many self-inflicted, easily corrected mistakes - don't give two prime gratuity years to Tony, actually be serious and seal the deal on Wheeler, Harper, or Machado. So when people defend the Sox smartest-people-in-the-room mentality, that's when people get overly snippy. *I will note that I was OK with Colas and Lenyn/Romy on the team, but that's as someone that was/still is a pretty big believer in Colas and Lenyn.

Shortstop: -1.3 WAR (Worst in MLB) Second base: -1.4 WAR (Worst in MLB) Right Field: -1.2 WAR (Second worst in MLB) Pinch Hitter (offensive depth): -0.5 WAR (Worst in MLB) Catcher: -,7 WAR (Fourth worst in MLB) Relief Pitchers: -2.5 WAR (Second worst in MLB) HOW IS HE STILL EMPLOYED?

team hasn't really looked good offensively for 2 weeks. a couple big hits sprinkled in with nothing. same ol same ol.... don't take walks.. don't swing at strikes.

Vaughn really should be sent down when Eloy comes up

Coming back from TJS, people always struggle with command/control. Sox have rushed him back to the majors. Letting him work out these kinks in multi-inning stints in AAA would have been better.

Our upper management is dumber than average.

Wow, talk about someone with levels of delusion! I guess you have never been to a Yankees or Phillies game. Btw, when you find that perfect fan base that never boos players when they play bad or deserve it, please let me know. Or maybe fans are booing Tim...because of his arrogant and delusional attitude and not backing it up! I don't see the fans booing Burger or Vaughn when they do bad. Oh that's right, those two and other more humble players on the Sox ARE NOT walking around with this over-inflated ego putting up lame numbers. Its great to talk the talk, but a player better be able to walk the talk too. I guess Tim didn't learn that valuable lesson when you're playing professional sports.

"We can't spend if we only have ."

25-30 on Sunday night would look good. 23-32 would look like crap. Let’s go!

He certainly looked like he was swinging with his eyes closed yesterday.

Talked to him recently, he's doing well. Instead of spending money at Sox games, it's going to a nice family vacation.

The Astros are the most dominant team of the past decade. Phillies have been to a World Series. Orioles are on the upswing like where the 2020 and first-half-of-2021 White Sox were (when we were happy). The Rangers went out and made moves to sign star players. Also, the Peagle rocks (as do the Southside jerseys). Like, c'mon man. People have legitimate reasons to be mad about this team.

Giolito vs. Faedo Our first meeting of the year against Detroit and we face them 7 out of the next 10 games. If the Sox want to prove they are really turning things around here's their chance. Time to put up or shut up. While we play DET and LAA the Twins will be playing TOR and HOU. Grab 5/7 or more from the Tigers and maybe our game threads will have more than 5 pages and 10 people posting. Starting pitching and bullpen have been lights out lately. Offense now needs to step it up with more consistency and take better AB's. TA apparently figured out what he was doing wrong with stance and front leg. If Burger just closes his eyes and pretends he's at Guaranteed Rate, maybe he'll get a couple hits this series. Let's string together some wins and prove the Sox can take the helm of the mighty AL Central.

Grifol has managed to combine the worst elements of TLR and Renteria's bullpen management. What a fucking joke. Now we are burning through relievers in a game that is almost certainly over after trying to stupidly squeeze 5 innings out of our starter who obviously didn't have it.

Pathetic offense. 10k's v some jabroni pitcher. Have no clue of what a slider looks like. Just keep swinging away. Garbage

Arguably a problem for the past 2 decades

We keep swinging at sliders out of the zone, which has been a Sox Achilles Heel all season long.

19 straight pitches to righties that were on the outside corner or farther off the plate

my god, Lucas is such a head case sometimes, him and Cease have so much raw talent but they have a lot of Gavin Floyd in them also edit: also also also

I've been patient, but this is definately a lost opportunity to keep this tied or at worst have two guys on tied. Someone should have been warming during / after the 3rd. It was clear Lucas was done and Dunn.

He needs to make himself more availaple.

13-man bullpen, and he leaves him in.

I know hindsight is 20-20, but in the 2018 draft, Hahn used the 4th overall pick on JR SS Nick Madrigal from Oregon State. The Cincinnati Reds used the 5th overall pick to take JR 3B Johnathon India from Florida, who apparently could play other infield positions. The Sox moved Madrigal to 2nd and then traded him. Since that trade he has failed badly for the Cubs and now being sent down to AAA. The Reds on the other hand, moved India to 2nd base. He has been playing for the Reds three years now. This year he is: .289/.379/415/791 and a WAR of 1.4. His 3 year career averages are .265/.360/.423/.783 with a WAR of 0.99. India is also a much bigger frame at 6'0" 200 lbs.

I like the way you think.

Y'all really need to stop ragging on Sosa like he's a finished product at 23 years old with MLB 106 plate appearances.

He'd fit right in with Hahn's collection of four AAA Infielders (Alberto, Sosa, Gonzalez, Andrus). Madrigal remains 2,829 hits away from 3,000.

The fact some players if any, may not want to play for the White Sox...has nothing to do with the fans. The reason Tim Anderson apparently hates this team and Jose Abreu suggested a bad culture here, is only because of the Horrible Owner, dysfunctional Front Office and terrible manager and coaching staff. The Sox fans are probably one the most loyal fanbases in baseball. It's a credit to the these loyal fans that still even go to the ballpark, knowing how bad this team has been and how expensive it is to watch a bad team lose all the time.

Easiest excuse in the world is to blame the fan base, the organization has been doing it for years...Kenny, Hahn, Ozzie, Cooper et al. It just comes naturally to some I guess easier than admitting the franchise is incompetent, dysfunctional and inept usually on and off the field.

Right. A split against a home team playing well is acceptable. The Sox are not going to be in first place in 2 weeks. I'm not even sure it would be a good thing. I'd prefer a consistent steady climb over hot and cold streaks. Although I'll admit a 10 game winning steak would be fine just fine.

But also the Sox should be active in the Japanese market for the first time in 2 decades.

See it's this kind of brilliant analysis that I come here for...the Houston Astros the 10 years after they lost the WS to the White Sox lost an average of 95 games. HORRIBLE organization....everyone there is an idiot. There is no hope for the future. I am stupid. I think it is fitting that the last words I hear on Sox Talk as I cancel my account is "Get Fucked" by the Global Moderator.

"You are in Chicago, Jake"

May 25, 1924 - In a game at Washington which the Sox won 10-9, future Hall of Famer Ray “Cracker” Schalk caught his 1,500th career game. At the time of his retirement in 1929, Schalk had the third-most games caught all-time and second-most games caught in A.L. history. May 25, 1952 - Sox pitchers Joe Dobson and Marv Grissom both fired complete game shutouts in beating the Tigers in a double header at Comiskey Park. The Sox won the games by the scores of 3-0 and 1-0. For the afternoon Detroit only had eight total hits. Grissom would later become the White Sox pitching coach under manager Eddie Stanky. May 25, 1957 - Sox pitcher Dick Donovan hurled a one-hitter at Cleveland striking out four. Donovan allowed only a second inning double to right field from former Sox infielder Eddie Robinson in winning 4-0. He beat future teammate Early Wynn. May 25, 1973 – It was the beginning of the end for what was expected to be a stellar season. In the second inning of a game with the Indians, Sox outfielder Ken Henderson tore up his knee in a collision at home plate trying to slide through future Sox pitching coach Dave Duncan. The Sox at the time were 10 games over .500 at 24-14 with a two and a half game lead in the division. This injury started a run that saw the Sox use the injured list 38 times in 1973. Making matters worse, is that for some reason, the Sox refused to allow Henderson to have it operated on until September, meaning he was lost for the season, not that it would have made much difference considering all the other injuries that happened. The Sox would end 1973 with a record of 77-85. Remarkably he came back to play all 162 games in 1974 though and blasted 20 home runs with 95 RBI’s.

To echo @wegner... yes, he was that bad: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2022&endYear=2022&split=yes&team=&range=year&min=q&pos=of&roles=&viz=hide Of all outfielders last year, was the lowest-rated (per Statcast) out of 125 outfielders on Outs Above Average (-17) as well as Runs Prevented (-15).

It's easy to find takes on this site, like my dumbass take saying that James Shields fixing Giolito and help turning him into the ace he was projected to be would make the trade worth it in the end cause Tatis would flame out as a lottery ticket. I was huffing so much copium when I made that post I might as well have opened a drug den inside the G-Rate.

I disagree. Vaughn was awful in the OF. I may be in the minority here, but I think the Sox need to leave Vaughn alone at 1B. I have confidence that he will be a long term offensive weapon. I am also in the minority in thinking that RBIs are important and that is why Jose was so great here....Vaughn currently leads the team in RBIs.

Fun thing about the Call trade, you have to admit, is it was partly due to Hostetlers piss poor management of the farm, cramming college draft after college draft together and ending up with a legitimately difficult back log as players adjusted to AA. Call was traded out of that "surplus" in a silly trade to gain favor with Machado. As Call hits the big leagues and provides depth, we are basically out of outfielders as the remainder of prospects had washed out, been picked out due to 40 man issues, or traded. Creating a winning baseball organization is absolutely complex and difficult and that's why you should move on from people who cannot handle complexity, like Rick Hahn. Let him just go be a professional rich persons friend in winnetka and keep him away from the team.

If the Sox traded Sosa, we all know who would mention in him at every single opportunity if he made the major leagues in the next two years and put up a WAR north of 0.

When did being a "fan" turn into having blind loyalty and ignoring reality? You sound like a petulant child, @michelangelosmonkey. The White Sox have objectively been one of the worst baseball teams in MLB the last decade (and you could go back a lot longer than that.) And you think the Sox fans are "too negative?" Get fucked.

The bottom line is we hoped to win with the rebuild guys. We put no effort into adding quality young talent to protect the window from busts and injuries.The FO also operated as if other teams wouldn't try to get better as well. Teams like the Orioles, Blue Jays, Rangers and Angels should have never passed us by. Look at how the Rangers, Padres, Phillies, Astros, Blue Jays, and Braves have operated and compare them to our FO.

This is another credo of Soxtalk...negativity on our own prospects. The idea that you KNEW Lenyn Sosa was going to be a bust based on history of the Sox busting at these positions is crazy. He put up a .900 OPS in Birmingham while 2 years younger than league average in half a season at that pitchers park, then he put up an .820 OPS in Charlotte in half a season at 4 years younger than average. You know which other middle infielder also put up a combined .880 OPS in AA/AAA spit at 22 and flailed in a few at bats in the majors? Marcus Semien. And we traded him away a year later for a bag of magic beans because "we know our middle infield prospects are never good" and then he's averaged a 4 WAR for the next 9 years. Sox should just bring Sosa up and play him at 2b and have everyone shut up.

I did a look at attendance a few years back when I was arguing that JR wasn't cheap...seems like Sox core attendance is around 18,000...you get 18,000 to Comiskey Park to watch a paddle ball game on a nice summer day. If the fans think they are good...that jumps to 24,000 and if really excited to 30,000. Post WS is 36,000. So if a fan is worth $100 the core income from attendance is $144 million, an ok team is $192 mill, a great team $240 mill and WS $288. I argued that JR is not an idiot, he's a businessman and he understands that the Sox can't count on idiot frat boys turning out on day games to get drunk no matter the product. Cubs base looks to be more like 28-30,000. So if you make payroll through tickets you don't spend when the team is bad but hit the accelerator when they are good. I predicted the payroll would jump to $190 in the window to laughs of derision. And then it did ( top 10 payroll every time they are good for the last four decades). But it's also clear that the next jump was put on hold...partly because JR lost two nearly full years of attendance because of COVID but also because the super exciting team (remember this dirge is only a year old) attendance only jumped to 24,000. Now it is back down to the core at 17,000...of course its early and a hot streak now could lead to big crowds in the meaty months. Still its why the team should probably get moved out to the western suburbs where they can guarantee a much higher base. The team's future is not turned on a 7th starter or a backup 2b. They need to built up potential star core to produce...which will bring the crowds...which will bring the budget. To me the situation feels like COVID + injuries has hurt us more than any team. Black Sox curse.

Tiny Middle Finger Avatar Guy posts a lot of nonsense and then cries when called out, including his obsessions about platooning DHs and other bad roster and prospect management ideas, many of which are consistent how Hahn operates. Stone can be an arrogant ass like some posters here, but he is 100% on point when he has states he prefers his catchers to be able to catch. Most including Stone would also like a catcher who prepared for opponents and had a clue about pitch calling and game management. Below are stats over their White Sox Careers. Solid defensive and pitch calling catchers such as McCann and McGwire were also far superior to Grandal when it comes to handling pitchers with breaking balls and managing a ballgame. Lynn is fine with Grandal because there is no thinking required, and nearly every pitch is catchable by Grandal, and Clevinger is stuck with him because Zavala isn't catching four games out of five. Keep in mind, Zavala isn't known as a Gold Glove Catcher, but unlike Grandal he is an actual MLB capable defensive catcher and game caller in the year 2023. Catcher is the one position where you should prioritize defensive and pitch calling over hitting needs. Grandal also played DH / 1B in prior years, but considering the fact half the decent hitters on the current team are also DH/1B only types (Sheets, Frazier, Eloy, Vaughn, Burger) no at bats are available. Sample Size 170 Games (or just under 6 Full MLB SP Seasons) Green = Best Current Option Red = Worst Current Option Lucas Giolito - Definitely prefers anyone besides Grandal. Grandal: 30 G 4.45 ERA .731 OBP Zavala: 25 G 3.67 ERA .677 OBP Michael Kopech - Definitely makes sense to continue to ride the Zavala/Kopech streak as long as it is working. Grandal: 28 G 4.14 ERA .744 OPS Zavala: 21 G 4.88 ERA .725 OPS - Doesn't include Kopech/Savala 0 ER 7 IP from yesterday - Both Stats will lower Dylan Cease - Cease clearly is pitching better over a season plus worth of starts with Zavala. Grandal: 41 G 4.44 ERA .729 OPS Zavala: 25 G 2.06 ERA .546 OPS

I'm a fan for a long time. I've seen it all. Never too high about the rebuild. Never too low about the downfall since mid season 2021. Injuries as a myth is laughable. Arguably our 2 biggest offensive prospects were Robert and Eloy. They have been on the same team for 3+ seasons, marred by COVID and labor troubled seasons. They have both been injured often and missed so many games that you can legitimately say, and get very little argument, that neither has ever had a season that wasn't screwed up by COVID, labor issues, massive injuries and internal issues caused by the owner hiring TLR and his many other "philosophies" of what to spend money on. There's been so many problems that we often can't list them all in our shorts posts arguing back and forth about it all. Did I think deep down even at the heights of the frenzy of optimism that the rebuild would result in a Championship like it did for the Cubs and Astros. Hell no. Optimism flows and we forget who is running the show. Do I think this season is over because now that the negativity has reached pitch forks and torches levels ? Hell no ! Does it look bad ? Hell yes ! I see them playing better but they either are or aren't who we thought they were. Stay tuned. It aint' over til the fat lady signs even if you hate opera. A lot of endings are predictable especially since only one team can win it all every year. So I might as well sit back relax and watch it all unfold . I can't blame the players for getting injured any more than I can blame Hendriks for getting cancer. I feel bad for them that they've lost so much time. Their injuries may have ruined a lot of seasons and thwarted seeing them at their best together but it's not their fault. They can't live in bubbles playing sports. I don't really like feeling negative towards players because they don't live up to my expectations. But owners and executives are something else. In baseball there are multiple ways to go about team building and multiple executives to hire, fire etc. But if the guy in charge of it all only knows one way to structure his franchise that has proven again and again to be very flawwed then I'm going to be more bothered by the puppeteer than I am by the puppets.

Counting on the same players who are often injured year after year, for some crazy reason, hasn't quite worked out.