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The fact that Clevinger pitched fairly well last year and nobody wants him should tell you what other teams really think of him.

I struggle to see how him getting his ass kicked for 3.1 innings every 5 days does anything either.

I will never stop thinking that the biggest mistake the White Sox made with this player was failing to put him in AAA for 2021. Give him as many innings as he can take, let him build is arm up post surgery, let him get innings so that he can recover the consistency and control he was starting to develop in mid-2018, and maybe avoid the mental pressures of being tossed back into the big leagues after what was clearly a stressful 2020 for him.

It’s a solid B in my opinion. I’d much rather have this package than risk Cease pitching in the first half.

Heaven help me, I think I understood a Caulfield joke. He’s making a comment on the misspelling of Hahn as Hanh, which is more Vietnamese looking (as in Banh Mi).

Yeah, definitely feels like the end of the road for him with us. Either he recovers his form as a reliever and is traded at deadline or is non-tendered during the offseason.

Sigh. With how last year went and how this offseason went, you can't even justify this by saying "If he's good maybe we can move him at the trade deadline."

Have they been born yet?

Let me brush off my We Didn't Start The Fire keyboard. I'm going year-by-year down, so this will seem like a strange order. Yoan Moncada - Below expectations, but an above average major leaguer when healthy Lucas Giolito - Good Michael Kopech - Failure Reynaldo Lopez - Failure. EDIT: As a starter Carson Fulmer - Failure Zack Collins - Failure Zack Burdi - Failure Luis Basabe - Failure Alec Hansen - Disastrous failure Dane Dunning - Good Spencer Adams - Failure Micker Adolfo - Failure Eloy Jimenez - Failure Luis Robert - Good Dylan Cease - Good Blake Rutherford - Failure Jake Burger - Good Ian Clarkin - Failure Luis Gonzalez - Failure Nick Madrigal - Failure Bryce Bush - Failure DJ Gladney - Failure Jonathan Stiever - Failure Matthew Thompson - Failure Andrew Dalquist - Failure Jimmy Lambert - Failure James Beard - Failure Benyamin Bailey - Failure James Beard - Failure Codi Heuer - Good Jared Kelly - TBD, but so far, failure Yoelqui Cespedes - Failure Norge Vera - TBD, but so far, failure Seby Zavala - Good for what he was Gavin Sheets - For what he is, good Andrew Vaughn - 50/50, not looking good Bryan Ramos - Looking positive Lenyn Sosa - I like him, but others don't Oscar Colas - Pedro hates him Carlos Perez - Failure at this point due to defense Jose Rodriguez - TBD, but if he were further along he'd be knocking on the 2B door Colson Montgomery - May be the crown jewel Wes Kath - Failure Romy Gonzalez - Good Sean Burke - TBD, not looking good At this point, it's not worth highlighting anymore because they're all TBDs. Obviously no one would have a 100% hit rate, but unless the prospect had otherwordly talent (Robert, Moncada, Cease, etc.) or drive (Burger), Getz did damn near nothing with them.

That's the thing I never got. If you want to be cheap, invest in things that give the most bang for your buck. For the cost of a crappy end of the pen reliever, the Sox could build one of the best farm departments in baseball between scouting and development. But we go cheap there. Sign one less crappy utility guy a year and put that money into the system.

A 29 year old reliever with a career 4.33 FIP in 2 seasons who has slightly better ERA than that thanks to Petco park is most definitely filler. It's 40 man roster fluff.

Underwhelmed.

I voted A. From the Cease side of things, he’s a good SP but is he Cy Young contender consistently good? Maybe, he’ll need to prove that this year. There’s as much risk that he’s more 2023 Cease than 2022. I would expect him to have a good year for the Padres as I think 2023 was more of a the team was the problem situation more than Cease just not being as good as we saw in 22. From the White Sox side, you get 3 legit prospects and a potential flip candidate. The three legit prospects to me is a big deal. The reality is we were never getting those top 10-15 guys that were fantasized about around here. What we did get is a top 100 prospect plus two more guys who have been in and around the top 100 within the last year. Thorpe is a nice prospect, he has an outstanding changeup and great control. And he’s close to being ready. Iriarte is an electric arm with a high ceiling. Zavala is a toolsy OFer with a high ceiling. These guys aren’t lotto tickets they are legit prospects. This is a major boost to a system that’s lacking high ceiling talents and especially starting pitchers. For a team that’s not going to spend big in free agency this to me is an ideal trade to try and have this team headed in the right direction in the next few years. I much prefer this type of deal over one super prospect and then some fillers. This seems like the type of trade everyone is going to be happy about once they cool off from expecting way more than they should have and get to see some of these kids perform.

Just get lorenzen

TBH, if this is happening right, it is almost certainly because Michael Kopech continues to be a mental case and a trainwreck. They obviously see that he can't handle it.

But what’s the rush to react? Are they worried about losing an extra game or two in April if he has a bad start? This team is losing 100 games with him in the rotation or not, might as well give him a shot as a starter.

Exactly. It's his job to make the Sox better. Posters here can say let him pitch because you're not losing much anyway if he gets hurt or pitches poorly because they have no skin in the game. I'll take 3 prospects who all have a shot to become very good every time. If you wanted Cease to pitch into the season and he gets hurt or pitches poorly and the Sox get very little in return for him you never know what you might have got for him to compare it to. It's such an easy position to take when it's not your ass on the line. If the Sox farm system, after the trades at the deadline moved to about 15 and this trade gives you 3 prospects you can rank in your top 10 you did pretty good since all 3 of the prospects were in a No. 5 farms top ten also.

I don't understand this decision. You can always move him to the pen later. This is a move you probably are not coming back from, and Kopech has way more value as a SP both to the Sox, and to other teams.

So many other people have gotten grief, but this guy has never been able to get out of his own way, all of the way back to breaking his hand punching a teammate.

Getz will be here until Jerry is no longer the owner of the Chicago White Sox

No reason for this given the chances of contention

Make him the closer and see how it goes. This season will blow anyway

So I missed the s%*# show yesterday but I was at Rosatis when the news broke. Was so tempted to log on to see if the dumbass Baltimore fan showed up and after reading the last few pages it was probably a good idea I didn't log on.

Upon further review, Steven Wilson is a very interesting 4th piece. I wrote him off pretty much immediately due to his age, but the dude has put up pretty solid traditional stats, has posted +80th percentile xwOBA’s the past two years, and has really good stuff (ranked 18th in Stuff+ last year amongst relievers). His pitch mix is basically just a plus 4-seamer (FG graded it a 70 back in 2022 despite just avg velocity) & his bread & butter “slutter” that he’s been enhancing through technology. The sweeper all but confirms this is a Bannister guy. If it were me, I’d hand the closer role to Wilson and see how he responds. If he does well, we could be looking at a very valuable trade asset at the deadline as Wilson still has four years of control left. It’s still somewhat bizarre Getz went down this route vs. just getting an extra prospect, but I appreciate the creativity if they truly believe Wilson has real flip potential come July.

I gave it a B. I think it's a good return, but not a fleecing. Thorpe will most likely be part of the rotation this season. Zavala is a very interesting OF prospect that could have an impact in the next year or two. Iriarte is another interesting piece that could make an impact soon. And Wilson, even as a throw in, adds to the bullpen and is under control for four more years. There was a lot of risk holding on to Cease into the season and hoping for a haul at the deadline. Remember how good Cease looked early last year before being rather pedestrian overall, certainly in comparison to 2022. I think we all wanted some team to empty their farm for Cease, but that wasn't going to happen. And if you have spent enough time reading the hundreds of pages in the other thread, you'll see those who didn't think Cease would fetch anything of value are giving this trade a D or F and saying "I told you so." Those who claimed the Sox would get the moon for Cease are giving the trade a C saying "Let's see what happens." And those with relatively open minds are thinking B for the trade. Generalizations, I know, but there was so much volatility in that thread, and people dug in, and name-calling ensued. It's over, and the Sox have again significantly improved their farm system. Was it worth it? Time will tell, but right now it's looking like a fair trade.

Your comps are simply lazy and not even close to being similar to Thorpe. You just threw out the names of two highly drafted Sox prospects that you remembered had lower velocity fastballs and busted out. Lance Broadway had a 5.01 ERA, 1.54 WHIP, 10.32 H/9, and 6.29 K/9 in the minors. Kyle McCulloch had a 4.64 ERA, 1.49 WHIP, 10.54 H/9, and 5.00 K/9 in the minors. Basically, they were never even good in the minors and were destined for failure in the majors. The Sox overdrafted these guys because JR preferred drafting college pitchers that were supposedly more of a finished product, more projectable to make the rotation, and had no signability issues. He always preferred being safe in the draft and taking backend rotation guys over pitchers with the best pure stuff. Meanwhile, Drew Thorpe currently has a 2.52 ERA, 0.98 WHIP, 6.39 H/9, and 11.76 K/9 in the minors. Not even close to the bums you mentioned.

For those freaking out about Thorpe, a Padres fan said their their stadium gun has been off by 4-5 MPH this spring. That would make Thorpe's reported 88-89 MPH fast yesterday actually like 92-94. That's a lot more in like with what he's been. Also another note on Thorpe, Fangraphs actually things Thorpe will be better then Cease in 2024 given a similar amount of IP. I don't think this trade was a fleecing, but I think it was realistic and fair. Of course we loved to dream on fleecing one of these clubs but the closer we got to Opening Day, the more risk involved in holding Cease until July. I'm satisfied with this move even if they decided to diversify their risk across 3 good prospects vs just getting 1 headliner and a couple of throw ins.

This should be their next stadium. Noah's Park. They can dock at several points on the lakefront to pick up fans, then play the game while cruising Lake Michigan.

I’m not a fan of moving Kopech to the bullpen but the plan seems obvious to me. Theyre going to try and create value in a bullpen role and then trade him.

Kopech and Crochet should both have been building up as starters in Charlotte that year. Tony was the primary driver of this plan, with no one here to stop him.

He does a lot of things wrong that make me think he will be a terrible reliever. Bad command and not being able to hold runners is a bad combo for a reliever.

Never. You're not salvaging value with him as a reliever. Run him into the ground.

I find it helpful to think of Jerry not as some simply evil guy who is only motivated by money, but a guy who does want to win yet strongly holds a number of wrong views about how to do it. This is why for most criticisms of his apparent philosophies with spending (we never spend on development, we never sign high-profile free agents, etc.) have clear counterexamples from his time in ownership (was a big investor in minor league coaches relative to other owners when he took over, gave Joe Borchard a record contract, gave Albert Belle a record contract). He tries stuff, thinks he learns a lesson from it, and changes his strategy. Does it always work? No, in fact it usually doesn't. Does he care about money? Yeah, he seems to, but I do find it silly to act like the Sox are some outlier penny-pinching organization given the existing data on payrolls that we can all see.

Titanic deck chairs

Hard to grade because the Padres don't really know which Cease their getting, so I'll give the Sox a B and the Padres C+ that could easily turn into a B or A+. Will the Padres get the Cease who gets frustrated when he can't control his slider and falls behind in counts and runs up his pitch count. Or the dominate Cease that lights up the strike zone and fools hitters with his pitch selections. One doesn't really know, I think Cease can't control his emotions much like Kopeck except with better stuff. That leads to high pitch counts and walks which eventually lead to runs. The Sox defense was no help to his pitch count or frustrations so maybe he'll become the dominate pitcher that scouts thought he would become with his electric stuff behind the Padres defense and the expanse of Petco Park. Prospects are prospects and rankings are subjective so the Sox don't really know what their getting either, however the scouting reports look promising on all 3 prospects and the middle reliever will come in handy this season. This is a trade that could turn into 3 quality players for 1, depending on how the prospects pan out. In conclusion, both teams did well with this trade and each are taking risks with the players their getting back. Both teams grades have the possibilities of becoming A which is what you want in a trade.

Their pro coaching deserves a lot of criticism as well. I still want to know what they were doing with Kopech’s slider last year.

For someone like Lopez, don’t they get some blame for not being able to work with him on maintaining velocity when starting, as well as the shape of his slider? If you watch the highlights of his time with Nationals, he looked like a different guy.

Fulmer was still on the MLB.com top 100 list in early 2017, I checked. He was brought up by Rick Hahn in 2016 from AA because Hahn needed someone to save his bullpen. Moncada spent most of a year in AAA. He was called up because Frazier was traded, and showed by 2018 that this was an aggressive promotion since he hadn't figured out how to handle the strike zone. Lopez spent several years in the White Sox's minors and couldn't figure out how to have success until he was moved to the bullpen. Eloy spent so long in the White Sox minor league system that he wrote an article saying "I'm Ready" for the Players Tribune. Kopech spent 1.5 seasons in the White Sox minor leagues prior to his callup. The White Sox absolutely had plenty of time to put these guys in position for success. It's not all Getz, Hahn absolutely screwed with these guys, but this is a bloody ton of talent - to get so little long term success out of them is an indictment of the entire development system.

There is zero chance he gets fired in the next three years without committing a crime. Even then using the TLR standard, probably not.

good pitcher. my grand daughter loved his mustache, said he reminded her of mario and luigi. good luck dylan.

Most starts in the league since 2020.

I have slept on the trade.. And I feel the same way. Love Thorpe, Zavala and Iniarte are interesting. I still would have held until the deadline with this offer. Maybe theyre hoping Wilson is a dude and can have a strong half and then they deal him for a Berroa/Deloach type return like Santos.. Theoretically, doing that would make it Cease for Thorpe, Zavala, Iriarte, Berroa and Deloach.. Which is a much more palatable quantity trade.

To say this a harsher way, this is also writing that the White Sox gave a large discount on Cease because they weren't confident that he could be a top of the rotation pitcher in 2024 and believed it likely that 2022 was a fluke.

I think it's an A+ when you factor in what other the teams were offering. The Padres offer blew away all the other offers.

Now that we rid ourselves of dead weight I think we could make playoffs if we sign snell Montgomery and Lorenzen

People are sleeping on Steven Wilson. Its easy to see "29 year old reliever" in the trade and be like WTF? But this guy is actually pretty solid and by all accounts a great teammate as well. If he can have a great half year and be flipped for even more that's just a bonus.

Pipeline puts Thorpe at 3, Zavala at 6, and Iriarte at 9.

it's one thing to just be perennially bad, but they had us all believing we were gonna be a great team during this specific window and we're getting the absolute opposite of that. i dont think people are talking about this enough, it's going to take a massive toll on this franchise in so many ways, get the popcorn ready

You would think after years of watching top prospect Kopech walk 5 batters per 9 innings, acquiring a top prospect that actually throws strikes and still gets a bunch of whiffs would be a positive thing. But nah, soxtalk says give me the guy that throws 100 but has no idea where the ball is going lol

Does it give you pause that after the news broke you sprinted here to try and get your rocks off?