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Hahn could have had Cody Bellinger for next to nothing compared to his deal for Benintendi. The fool then trades away Burger, one of the most popular players on the team, a guy who brought joy to the clubhouse and to fans. His long right handed swings would have yielded many more HR and wins for the Sox. Hahn is a damn fool. Why is he still the GM? Fire him and let KW take over as interim GM until a new GM is hired. Serve up some accountability.

As bad as Hahn is, collecting failed high draft picks isn't a bad strategy. There was a reason they were picked high. The problem is the White Sox don't seem to be able to bring out the best in most players.

Yes it is early . His power metrics probably were never going to be as high as they were. They were outrageously high . His latest line with the Marlins is .326 , .396 , .488, .884 . A lot of the complaints about Burger were he wasn't hitting for average and had a terrible on base percentage. These complaints are typical of fans refusing to look at the full picture. He did lead the team in walks in July. He also lost 3 years of development time with the injury. 3 years !! That means a lot. Aso his 1st year getting nearly full time playing time so basically 4 months of really just getting into a chance to adjust. James Otman , atrue rookie at 26, started hot then got cold and is now hot again. Same thing except Outman always knew how to take walks and is a good fielder but then again he didn't miss 3 years. Plummeting power numbers are a bit of an exaggeration when he's now hitting for average and taking walks and his OPS is higher for the time being. He also would've had a double instead of a single on that game winning hit. 1 HR and 4 doubles in 12 games is not a big deal when he's hitting over . 300 and his OBP is nearly .400. A guy should actually have more singles than all his extra base hits combined if he's going to be a well rounded hitter. EARLy results say he's been being a better hitter . He's one of those guys who studies his craft and his wife helps him. The guy wants to be better, he studies to be better. so I hope he will be better.

However you can't say blocked if they only have Moncada and Eloy each for 1 more year which is a distinct possibility. Also Devers isn't a great 3rd basement either and he plays 3rd a lot. Burger isn't terrible at third , he's near the bottom for sure but it's still a fairly limited sample size and precludes the possibility that he'll get better. It's basically the same argument I've been using about his hitting. If he all of a sudden starts hitting for a higher average and taking more walks., it won't be that the Marlins fixed him. He was never broken. He just lost 3 years of development time and had already started showing he was learning ( 11 walks in July ) and showing a proclivity for wanting to dive into data. He hit's the ball as hard as anyone in baseball when he makes contact. His BABIP should be able to go much higher than it was. He might not hit HR's at the same pace but he's shown he can go oppo and just isnt a pull only guy.

The thing is, Benintendi could have had an average year and this would still be a disaster. I mean, the White Sox richest free agent deal in franchise history was to a league average-ish left fielder. This whole thing, this whole “plan,” it was just never going to work out.

He’s just saying the slider doesn’t consistently do one thing, not that it’s doing different things in the same pitch. It would be good to know more about what he’s trying to do, but on the other hand this guy is nice enough to provide video and describe what he’s seeing. It would be better if he just spoke in inuendo that tried to show off he had some sort of insider info.

Any true White Sox fan would hate the team moving infinitely more than them losing. Constantly promoting the idea of moving the team is an insult to Sox fans who live in Chicago and the surrounding areas who actually go to the games. I've also noticed over the years that on this board and the old WSI site that its always Sox "fans" from out of state who never even go to a game are the ones who promote moving the team. If you hate the team that much then move on to another team.

I also hate the front office but that doesn’t mean I want to see the Sox moved and recommend others to follow different teams

Still trying to figure out why this necessitates moving the franchise as opposed to just having JR's heirs selling the team.

76-86 in 2015. 78-84 in 2016 before they gave up on that idea. How bad does someone have to be before it dawns on their employer or themself, that they cannot do this job?

There's something fascinating to me about how Burger is "only" 27 and has gotten "only" 340 major league at bats this year, so we can conclude there's a good chance of him turning into right handed Rafael Devers despite already being older and never showing sustained production at that level... But rookies like Sosa are declared incapable of hitting MLB pitching after <50ABs, and younger players who also had interrupted or mishandled development time like Eloy/AV are just physically and mentally incapable of improvement apparently? Look, I also really like Jake Burger as a person, and I think he has potential as a player, but his likeability (and perhaps his ability to be used as a foil to the pet villians around here) has been making folks a bit silly all season. I'm almost petty enough to go dig up comments from June, when Burger put up absolutely abysmal numbers over 20+ starts, but somehow any lineup with him in the lower half (or heaven forbid, not starting) was basically a crime against humanity because he was "the best hitter on the team" despite literally looking like a backup catcher at the plate. And I do mean literally. Jake Burger in June: 89AB, .146/.200/.393; 13H (6HR), 38K, 4BB Seby Zavala, last 30G: 72AB, .158/.226/.382; 12H (5HR), 32K, 6BB It was a long stretch as bad as pretty much any Sox has had, at a time when it theoretically still mattered for the season, and he just seemed to get a pass for it that known SoxTalk busts and DFA candidates AV, Eloy, Moncada, every rookie, etc. would never be granted. Hell, LRJ was hitting .300 with a 1.000+ OPS over that same stretch (while playing excellent defense at a premium position), and for him every strikeout on a slider away had folks complaining that he was "lazy" and "didn't care" and "would never learn" a better approach. But Jake Burger? Endless fount of potential! When anyone else chases a breaking pitch, it's basically a moral failing. When Burger swings at 25 pitches straight across multiple games...it's cool! He's "only" 27 after all, unlike AV/Luis/Eloy who are "already" 25/26, so his approach can only improve from here! Every hot streak is a sign of things to come...and every cold streak is ignored. The reality is, like a ton of guys, he IS streaky. He was 4-23 in his first six games with MIA (with one HR). He's gone 10-24 in the six games since (with 0 HR, but 4 2B). Maybe he'll be a career .300 hitter now (apparently at the expense of his HR output?)...or maybe he's having a hot week of batted ball luck that will be sandwiched between stretches of a few 0-fers with some XBHs sprinkled in...like he did any number of times here. If he levels out more at some point, it probably won't look like his terrible June numbers...but it's obviously also not going to be at the level of this week in Miami. Even if you ignore how low his lowest percentile outcomes are, and that he doesn't have a glove or high BB% to fall back on as a Gallo-style floor raiser, and that his Marlins numbers have an underlying .382 BABIP, and just assume he's going to become a reliable .270BA/35HR guy going forward...It's still not malpractice to trade him to address another need? The White Sox can like Jake Burger, and think he's a good player, and even think he's the best 3B option they have...and it can still be the right move to trade him! The Marlins are stocked with young arms, and confident they can pop out enough league average or above SP to stay competitive...but they had basically no corner power in their system. The Sox feel like at least one of Moncada/Ramos/Popeye/Sosa/Montgomery/Gonzo can give you league average or above 3B production...but they had no LHSP close to the majors. The Marlins are betting that the upside of Jake Burger over whatever bats fall in their FA price range outweighs the delta between Eder and their next best option (they have two other high minors LHSP in their top 20). The Sox are betting that the upside of Jake Eder over...well, they had nothing close...outweighs the difference between Burger and their next best option for 3B. And decent LHSP is not a exactly a skillset that falls off trees, hence why Keuchel still gets chances, Rich Hill is the oldest active MLB player, and Snell is well positioned to benefit from an offseason bidding war. RH bats on the other hand...well, doesn't SoxTalk pound the table about how dumb it is to draft high for bat-first DH types in the first place, because there are options in FA? Unless you're working with a bottom 10 payroll like the Marlins...and get capped out at Segura. A swap of two players with this much team control happens because both teams are looking beyond this season. Literally nothing that happens this year, short of career-ending circumstances or I guess Burger WSMVP, is determinative for either side. If Burger gets a big hit tomorrow, you can actually just be happy for him instead of making it about whatever Sox player/prospect/FO member you hate most that day or acting like Burger taking 3 walks in 12 games has fundamentally revolutionized what he's capable of for the next 5 years. And if the 2025 Marlins really do get a magical 4WAR 3B version of Burger to pair with 2.5WAR LHP Dax Fulton, but the 2025 White Sox have 3.5WAR LHP Jake Eder to pair with 3WAR 3B Bryan Ramos, then both sides still "win" despite giving up a better player than they kept for the respective position.

Aw come on man you really have to make me do this? I want to cheer for the guy. His walk rate with the White Sox was 6.8%. With the Marlins so far it is 6.5%. These continue to match his minor league performance going back to 2017. James Outman is at 11.9%. Schwarber for his career is 13.6%, higher this year. You are looking at a guy whose BABIP with the White Sox was .225, with the Marlins it’s .375, and you’re complimenting him on taking more walks because of those extra hits.

Burger was 7 for 12 against the Yankees last weekend. Sox gave up on Burger too soon. Move Moncada to second and keep Burger at 3 rd was the wiser decision. We needed Burger power at homer friendly GRF. He was a first rounder. Could turn into a Schwarber and we will miss his 30-40 homers per season.

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside great point about never broken. I think we forget that these guys lost a couple years and would have been learning in AAA in other organizations.

I like Andrew, but he's a complimentary player. If 2B and RF were resolved, he'd be a fine LF option batting 7th in our lineup or something. But being the premiere off season acquisition is beyond ridiculous. He's not the reason this team is a disaster, just a product of how terrible the team is constructed.

Man, you sure like rooting for this team to be moved. Pretty weird thing to hope for as a Sox fan.

It’s a low pressure environment here being around so many other failures.

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/jake-burger-on-his-clutch-hit https://www.mlb.com/marlins/video/marlins-rally-to-top-yankees

Yeah I wish Benintendi was on someone else’s team. Going to be a long 4 years.

Again addressing "power" plummetting. The following is from a very recent Miami Herald Article. And Burger isn’t sacrificing power to bump up his batting average. Of Burgers 33 balls play through his first 11 games with Miami, 12 have an exit velocity of at least 100 mph — he’s one of only 18 players to have that many since Aug. 2. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article278218297.html

The Sox spent 5 brutal seasons to prove just how “brilliant” they were with the Robin Ventura hire. They have a tendency to throw seasons down the toilet in an effort to show us how “advanced” they are at hiring managers and evaluating talent. You better believe the following things will happen in 2024: Jerry will continue to be an absentee landlord. Kenny will continue to bring Jerry’s proxies to owners meetings and occasionally chime in on a deal when he feels like it. Hahn will continue his horrible tenure as GM, continuing to rip anyone who questions the character of culture and or structure of this amazingly advanced franchise. He will help his boy, Pedro by trading from the teams top 10 prospects to acquire the expensive and washed up Salvadore Perez. (Gotta fix that culture!) Pedro keeps his job as manager, will chaulk up the 2024 season as the team being edgier than ever and they will now focus MORE on those little things and the culture will be even more culturie! Will claim all the toxic players will have been removed from the clubhouse. (Yet, Moncada and TA will remain) Remember fans, they don’t want you criticizing their horrible track record. If you do, you are a member of the cesspool upper deck club. And we must be punished, so no Soxfest 2024 for us!

Holy s%*# dude, how many threads do you have to hijack with the incessant ‘move the team’ drivel? We get it, you hate the White Sox. And it would seem you hate the rest of of us fans too because you won’t shut up with the non-stop complaining / suggesting JR move. Like, find a new team already. There are 28 others to chose from not based in Chicago. We know they suck, as does chairman, FO, on down. Put the phone down, walk away from the keyboard, take a breath, and get a grip FFS.

Well, "the money ended up getting spent." Unfortunately it was spent on a complete pile of s%*#.

Fan is short for fanatic. Fanatics are obsessive, bordering on insane. It is completely expected behavior for a fanatic to want to burn it all down when we've reached an almost hopeless stage. Sounds like you enjoy attending baseball games, especially local baseball games. A fanatic that is pulling their hair out right now seems like more of a "true fan" to me. I went yesterday and was miserable. I think if someone had put a red button in front of me and said "if you push this button the team moves to nashville" I would have had to tie my hands behind my back or I would have mashed that move button so hard.

Awful deal the moment it was announced. Hahn bid against himself, similar to Ryan Pace when he did that draft day deal. No one was going to give Benintendi that. The team had so many glaring holes too and he blew it all in one spot for someone you could've paid league minimum to do the same job for. If you liked the deal, it's only because you liked the name. Don't get me wrong, Andrew could be a serviceable player, but you don't give the richest contract in your team's history to a serviceable player when they already count enough pennies as it is.

Yea this is just not a fun Schtick for me. Sorry

I don't think it matters as much if you are an out of town fan of the team. They just need a new owner that is willing to spend at the levels of the big market team they are.

"Following the 2014 season, “We were coming off a tough year but also sitting there realizing that we have the prime of Chris Sale's career ahead of us, the prime of Jose Abreu's career ahead of us and we wanted to make sure we were in a position to capitalize and win within that window,” says Hahn." https://www.si.com/mlb/2015/01/30/white-sox-offseason-rick-hahn-jeff-samardzija-david-robertson From the annals of Hahn, just crowing about his great work in the winter of 2014. Fire him then. Fire him today.

I hated it then. While the defense is solid, it was basically the exact profile we were seeing too much of. Yay, contact. The team was starved for power from players who were not DHs. Even our DHs were starved for power. The best part is this is his most affordable year. I really do think Hahn is overly influenced by BA100 books. The Casey Gillaspie trade, the Korey Lee trade. Clint Frazier, Adam Hasely, Travis Swaggerty, Brent Honeywell, the paying for Blake Rutherford as he's about to fall off a cliff, the new yankees pitcher, Alen Hanson, Toukki, Delmonico, I don't know how much worse of an offender we are compared to others tbh. But it does feel like even in trade he has been obssessed with getting the best ranked prospect...vs say an example would be when the Nats acquired James Wood and CJ Abrams. Abrams was ranked higher but at the time everyone was saying the prize was James Wood. That has appeared to be true so far. But I think Hahn would be floored by stuff like that. It's probably because it gets him such good post trade media when he can say he got X ranked player.

Lol the Rays are gonna close up shop because Franco is a freak I just cannot imagine risking my career for someone who can’t even drive wtf man

Unless you consider the 3B hole filled for $29 million to Moncada...including the $5 million 2025 buyout. It's either that or Bryan Ramos.

Trading away Burger was a difficult to understand decision except that they aren't going to bin Moncada, and unless they swallow a big chunk of salary no one would take him, so that is 3B blocked, they are not getting rid of Eloy so that is DH blocked and they are clearly investing in Vaughn as a 'franchise player' with all the positive stories about him, so that is 1B blocked. So in Hahn' mind getting a prospect for Burger made sense. But that ignores what you say about his fan appeal and HR potential. Basically Burger was a victim of the badly built squad by Hahn which is overloaded with 1B/DH types and where Moncada and Eloy got huge deals early and have failed to deliver on them, there is still some hope that an injury free Eloy could deliver but I can't see Moncada suddenly improving.

Gotta love Jake Burger.

Since no one expects either Kenny or Hahn to get fired (or retire or resign) you think they are going to fire Pedro after only one year and basically admit to the world that they screwed up big time yet again? Not happening.

I would just tell Eder not to listen to our coaches and write down everything he was told in the marlins and just read that every day

If any of that is actually true...probably the end of the Rays in Tampa.

1. Jose Ramirez instigated the fight by shoving Tim's leg and then getting up and aggressively wagged his finger within inches of Tim's face. Do that in a bar or on the streets without MLB security to protect you and you're liable to an asswhupping at minimum, possibly several bullets in your body now since we are in 2023. 2. Jose Ramirez made contact with the ump, instigated the fight, and should have gotten an equal suspension term. 3, Tray didn't say anyone who didn't support TA is racist. He said there is an element of racism to some of the comments.

Of the guys on your 2nd part of the list, that entire roll call can be shitcanned off of any White Sox roster. Of the guys on your 1st part of the list, I've got some bad news....I'm pretty sure we're going to see Clevinger in the rotation next season. Especially at the price tag he gets. Liam I really don't know what they'll do, and we all know Grandal is off to..........somewhere else, anywhere else.

Which is one thing that is a positive, at least it keep a few million out of the shareholder's pockets.

They don't even need to spend at the levels of big market teams. A $150ish million payroll with the correct resources added to scouting and development would run this division.

My God, I had forgotten we had traded both Bassitt and Semien for one year of Jeff Samardzija. Guh.

I could see where they told BA that they want to conduct a national search and include him, but apparently they just said sorry we are gonna find a new head coach

I still do like the trade. Burger has tremendous power and if he is hot he can produce a lot but he is still defensively limited and has a very bad k to bb rate. It is a great story that burger has this kind of season after all those injuries but in the end he still "only" is a low OBP corner masher, those guys aren't super valuable even though they of course can have some 1.000+ ops weeks with 3 Homers and carry a team for a week because he has that much power. one week he can slug .800 and the next week go 1 for 20 with 8 Ks. As for the return Eder is risky, especially since he still isn't the same after TJ (although he did show some flashes) but he still has a very good upside. Control is a bit of an issue though, now it is important that sox pitching development doesn't mess him up (I know that is a big if).

FIFY

7 IP 1 ER 12 K 0 BB ERA down to 3.10 on the year

Some of the guys who failed miserably have already been dealt, and there will be a lot more changes. I don't see how JR (and KW if he does not retire) allow Hahn, Katz and Grifol to be brought back. Wayy too many bad decisions and a lot of inaction at critical times in the season. Meanwhile, Bummer still issuing lead-off walks in late innings and then allowing that guy to steal second ? Bummer is only pitching now to prove he might have some trade value and that is not looking good. He can't throw strikes to a lead-off hitter late in a game so what the hell good is he as a leverage bullpen arm?

If I was JR I would meet with Theo Epstein and see if he would consider taking control of the whole organization top to bottom and retire/fire KW, Hahn, and Grifo to make way for that. Give him full control of everything and offer wide latitude with the purse strings. JR is fine as an Owner if he basically stays out of almost everything baseball related. In any case, KW, Hahn and Grifo have to go. Grifo is not qualified to be a MLB Manager. Hahn has had his chances and failed. KW is probably worn out with the nonsense and would probably welcome being cut loose.

Robert Jr., Eloy and Burger are the three hitters I like to watch swing for the fences. Vaughn and Sheets also but to a lesser extent. We need all of them jacking HR if we have a chance at the Division. TA seems like he has lost some power in his swing so far. The team is rudderless at this point and Grifol has to shoulder the blame for that. Very poor game planning on offense and defense and a lifeless clubhouse. Shitcan the silly HR coat and hat. You are playing for last place. Get humble and serious and get down to business.

stfu ozzie.