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It still cracks me up that the Indians sent Plesac home in a rental

It's not really though, vertical drop has been measured since everything else started being measured. This is honestly nothing new; it's just that Fegan wrote an article about it today and now Jack believes it's the most important aspect of a fastball when it's not. You want to see why Cease's fastball doesn't generate enough swings and misses and K's: That's why. 1/2 of his fastballs aren't even competitive pitches. If

And Max Scherzer misses a ton of bats and has below average carry... so um, maybe it's related to command? Throwing the ball where you want to is so much more important than anything else you mentioned. Jack, Cease had less carry last year by a good amount - well below league average - yet he got a whiff on 22% of his fastballs thrown. This year, Cease has gotten more carry and has gotten a whiff on 14.5% of them. I know you think you've found the secret solution to baseball pitching, but carry ain't it my man.

Our offense seems to be on to something. Wr have a day off tomorrow and could play 3 games against a rusty and depleted team. Give me the 3 games.

I don't know how you all feel but it might not be bad for us to have the games v cardinals canceled this weekend. It will give guys like Moncada to get healthy and for us to get maybe LOPEZ back without playing games, and maybe Madrigal gets closer to returning.

Tim worked Boyd like a puppet. That was one of the coolest lead off ABs I’ve ever seen. I don’t think Robert can do that yet- he needs to see all the pitchers for a couple years and learn

I just imagine Francona standing behind a dejected-looking Plesac at the rental counter like "no, he will NOT be needing SiriusXM radio, thank you very much."

The experts have spoken today ... the fall is going to be a disaster if Americans don't take action. Masks, distancing, washing, avoiding crowds (hmmm, sports world?). My question to you is do you believe them or not? I tend to believe them. Be safe, folks. This is life and death. I pray for health for all and enough food for all to get through the winter. And I pray people are accorded shelter and relief from monthly rent payments as we plod through corona. Also I pray the grocery stores maintain normal business with no shortages of food, terribly long lines thru the night, etc. Let's get thru this America! https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/511841-cdc-director-warns-of-worst-fall-in-history-if-people-dont-follow-covid#.XzVp05QprVk.twitter

Give me Stroman. He’s not as good as Bauer but he’d be a solid #3 or #4 starter for this team. I also think his personality and energy would fit well in the clubhouse.

Jack there's a reason no one wants their four seamer down in the zone anymore, and it's not because it's a good pitch to get backwards K's on.

I think people WAY underestimate the humanity of athletes. They are subject to all of the same peeves, tics, and oddities that regular people are, but some how we think that changing little things don't have a ripple effect on the mentality of the athlete. You will never convince me that where a guy hits in a line up doesn't get into the heads of some hitters. Whether it is pressure, anger, resentment, pride or whatever there are guys who are going to internalize that into their mental state, and carry it with them on to the field. Athletes are human.

Unless you were playing under a multimillion dollar contract with the expectations of being a savior of a floundering major sports franchise with deep roots in a major US city, a million lifelong fans most of them generational going back 100+ years, I'm not sure your experience is corrolary

We played them poorly but that is not a good team beyond Beiber/Plesac.

Line up construction is overrated anyway. Lots of comments here "why is ricky batting jose 3rd..." but I played with a lineup construction tool and I used a lineup of all great hitters (350/500) except for two who I made really super bad (280/300) and made lineups those guys one and three and 8 and 9. The difference was 0.25 runs or 40 runs over 162=4 wins. That is quite a bit but in reality examples are never that extreme (850 ops vs 580 and 8/9 vs 1/3 for the super bad guys) so realistically the worst lineups a mlb manager can create probably cost about a win per season. Much more important than batting order is who is batting in that lineup... https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=A&OBA0=+0.350&Slug0=+0.500&Player1=C&OBA1=+0.350&Slug1=+0.500&Player2=D&OBA2=+0.350&Slug2=+0.500&Player3=S&OBA3=+0.350&Slug3=+0.500&Player4=D&OBA4=+0.350&Slug4=+0.500&Player5=D&OBA5=+0.350&Slug5=+0.500&Player6=S&OBA6=+0.350&Slug6=+0.500&Player7=D&OBA7=+0.280&Slug7=+0.300&Player8=D&OBA8=+0.280&Slug8=+0.300&Model=0

Unless they used one of the rental companies that have Ferrari's , Lambo's etc.

Funny line, but I don't think Francona would want to be standing anywhere near Plesac.

Huskers made a statement today they are staying put. Understandably they were outraged since 3 conferences are playing and NU football stands idle til the spring. So much is unknown, but the embattled Big 10 commissioner took the right side of this issue in the long run IMO. Right now he is an enemy in Nebraska, but wait until the 3 conferences that are playing in the fall have major problems/outbreaks. It's not guaranteed there will be problems, but a very safe bet that the Big 12, SEC and ACC will have serious outbreaks before Game One (in the Big 12 a month after kids return to campus) and there will be all sorts of problems forcing cancellation of season in those 3 leagues. We'll hear that the whole Texas Tech offensive line is out or all the Texas QBs are exposed/out, etc. I will say this. As of Wednesday, the Big 12 ADs were on Cloud Nine, pumped up talking about fans at the opener, etc. This unabashed optimism of the 3 leagues can turn to angst/depression in just one or two days. Meanwhile, the Big Ten can put it all off until the spring, when again, odds suggest heavily there will be no sports because of winter virus season. My point? Nebraska's feelings and pocketbooks took a hard shot this week, but Huskers now are going to adjust mentally and get ready for a season in the spring. The Big 10 commish will look like a hero when the other leagues that are playing have SEVERE issues. Life sucks right now.

It's the same stat. Vertical drop measures the same thing. The baseball doesn't drop at an inconsistent rate; there's no such thing as late break in baseball. A break can be more intense due to the spin rate, but it won't break any later or earlier. Which is why carry is the same stat as measuring fastball vertical drop, just measured in a different way.

Not necessarily. If the hitter expects the ball to drop below the zone and it stays in the zone, it could be good for backwards ks at the bottom of the zone.

It's the latest "thing we can measure." It used to be called rise because the ball looked like it would rise compared to other pitches because it didn't drop as much (even though it does actually drop.) Just like a "tight spin" on any breaking pitch was always desired. It just talked about more because it can be measured.

I have seen the word "carry:" posted more times today than in the entire history of Soxtalk.

I won't be eating my words until Ray Ray eats his words about Frankie Montas

Carry is fine but if it carries the ball over the heart of the plate or out of the strike zone it's useless. Gotta locate it.

I think you trade a couple of those guys. I've seen enough of Lopez and Rodon, Rodon is in Arb 3 and Lopez in Arb 1. Both are non-tender candidates. Without those two, Are you really going to give two rotation slots to kids? I'm not a huge fan of Cease these days as despite him throwing high 90s his fastball is very hittable. He's starting to remind me of Lopez. Too many walks, too hittable. I'd like to move him before his value craters.

White Sox won’t commit to three years based on Top 4-6 closer in baseball performance level over the past half decade. Not how they’ve ever dealt with relievers, other than Robertson.

https://twitter.com/SportsInfo_SIS/status/1293905761526075392?s=20

Off-day update: 74.9%, still 7th in the AL https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

Ok yes we were all jumping to conclusions based on a single data point.Have it you way. If you dont want to deal with reality theres nothing else to discuss. You already made up your own history of events. Hahn had no power, Shield couldve been Cole Hamels or Randy Johnson, the Padres interest in Tatis was pure luck and Tatis was a one in 10,000 lotto ticket . IF the odds were that high for every player Marco Paddy ever signed he wouldn't have a job let alone be a highly respected talent evaluator. Do you really think so little of your Soxtalk brethren that in a long thread on the trade that not one person hating the trade made any kind of sense and you have nothing to learn ?

No way Cease is removed from the rotation anytime soon. They're going to give Cease just as much time as they gave Gioltio to figure it out as SP, which means at the VERY least all the way through 2021. I'd even say due to this truncated 2020 season, he has until mid 2022 before they consider other options (assuming health).

By the end of this season we should have a better idea on some of our younger pitchers. Cease maintained his velocity yesterday till the end. If he and Kopech progress it will allow Keuchel to move one slot down each year of his contract. Due to this short season, next year we may need to monitor innings on a lot of these players so depth will again be important. Next year you could see Rodon/Lopez/ Dunning and the youngsters as your 5 plus positions. It probably makes more sense to see where we are near the trade deadline next year and maybe add then if needed. After 2021 is when it may make more sense to add a starter and hopefully we are attractive as a competitor and should be generating money. Colome is a free agent after 2020 I believe. Solidifying the bullpen is a bigger need to me. We will need another lefty you can depend on and possibly a closer. We have a plethora of right handed options. A lefty besides Bummer who can get both sides out and be relied upon would be nice.

Deliberately sabotaging the United States Postal Service during a pandemic when many people rely on it for supplies, including critical medical supplies and medications, in order to tilt an election in your favor seems like a pretty shitty and evil thing to do, imo.

Imagine signing Quintana to a decent deal. The Sox would end up with him, Jimenez, and Cease. I don't know what kind of money he'd command, though.

Cards hitters are going to be RUSTY. And their starters will be surely be on pitch counts. Gotta pounce on them. NO MERCY!

love when sox talk says other teams don't have revenue to sign a player. It's accurate roughly 0% of time.

Jed Lowrie signed a 2 year $20 million contract with the Mets before last season. He has made 8 plate appearances since, and is tied with me for career hits with the Mets.

they’re a playoff team for sure. great bullpen one of best in baseball....Lindor and Ramirez two Top 20-25 players, Santana is solid, Hernandez too, Reyes and D.Santana legit threats. Clevinger is a real difference maker when healthy, C. Carrasco solid as well. Civale and Plutko awesome so far byt clearly unsustainable for entire rotation to overachieve consistently.

Goodbye Don Cooper then.

Want 2 games. 2 days off with Friday cancelled is perfect. Can't have double headers on a compressed schedule

I get that argument, I also think our offense has just woken up again the past 2 days (thanks Dallas) plus the cards being super cold not playing for a while may be nice..

I started this thread and I will eat my own words. This lineup is just different with TA up top. Hopefully by next season Robert has earned his way to 3, or at least into the heart of the order.

But he did. And so that isn't something you can hand wave away.

Colome has been great. Very nice rebound this series.

Colome takes a lot of heat around here because he’s not a big strikeout guy but he gets the job done. Hasn’t given up a run yet this season and has a high save percentage and low ERA since joining the Sox. You’d think he was Craig Kimbrel or something based on board comments.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Foster is our future closer.... He looks like the real deal, he's got some movement on that fastball.

MLB does targeting advertising - so the better question is - what are you googling? Hahah.

Let's ship your dumb ass with him to the northside

Sox pen is currently tied for 5th in all of baseball and 3rd in the AL for Win probability. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=3&season=2020&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31

Greg busting out the SAT vocabulary today...

The Leafs were that close in winning the #1 pick.

Realistically, We wanted to see them go about .500 against Cleveland and Minnesota, and then come out ahead of the rest of the schedule. So far they have gone 3-6 against them, and 5-2 against the rest. It really feels like .500 is going to be the breaking point for the playoffs if they don't manage to get in the first two slots. When you also factor in losing two of the their top 5 starters, a key member of the pen, plus the opt out of Kopech, and 16 games into the season, they haven't had their entire starting line up on the field for one game, I think .500 is a solid achievement so far. We will see what health and performance look like going forward, but I still feel pretty good about this team getting into the dance.