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"If there’s one thing we know about Reinsdorf, it’s not just that he sticks to his guns. It’s that he thinks he invented guns. His way, then, is always the right way." https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/8/9/23826210/on-white-sox-jerry-reinsdorf-when-an-owner-doesnt-want-to-own-up-to-anything-rick-hahn-tim-anderson

Someone should tell Pedro his team is 23 games under .500, wins don't mean s%*# at this point in the season pal.

Yeah but Lynn has been throwing left-handed since he came to the Dodgers............................

I'mma just keep memein'

That’s not the issue…saying meaningless wins in a lost season are more important than the development of young players who could theoretically help in you know, a winning season, is a level of stupid I didn’t think was possible.

Ethan Katz is absolutely one of them, this pitching staff has made very little positive progress this year and wasted a whole lot of resources. Plus, the pitching staff has been repeatedly put in positions to fail or get hurt (Crochet, Hendrix, Martin). The good news is he’s likely to be the fall guy to protect Hahn and Grifol this year.

We’ve been Stockholm Syndrome’d into only considering a pool of six people already involved with the team as the only possibilities to run it. I don’t see Ozzie as a comparison point to Grifol, with pros and cons — I see Ozzie as another node in a long list of abject failures that have run this team over my lifetime. Resist the temptation to crave past abuses. It’s all a s%*# show and we need to move forward.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's been just two starts. And in those starts he has already given up 4 homeruns.

You say that, as if the young kids won't want to win every game? Running Elvis Andrus, Yasmani Grandal, etc out there, when the season is very clearly over, does nothing to prep the organization for whatever debacle we see in 2024.

He’s a moron. Did you guys listen to the most recent White Sox Talk Podcast? Garfien had Ozzie on. Ozzie mentioned that Grifol big leagued the hell out of him right when he was hired. Ozzie called Pedro to congratulate him and to give him advice about managing in Chicago and apparently Grifol was a major douche. This guy sucks just as much as Hahn does. (And that says a lot!) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-sox-talk-podcast/id1162163703?i=1000623785357

I wonder how many championships Jerry wins if he didn't inherit Michael Jordan.

Lest we all forget about Nick Swisher, or intentionally playing an Adam Dunn hitting under .150 cleanup just to stick it to KW. Or the rotating Mark Kotsay DH disaster. I'm sure I could think of a few more if I wanted to kill a few more brain cells. Ozzie was a train wreck at the end, negotiated a deal with under team while still under contract here, and didn't even last more than a single year with said team because he couldn't stop running his mouth. He hasn't managed a big league game in longer than a decade, nor has he been willing to coach anywhere in MLB to rehab his rep. The notion that the short of s%*# we are seeing now wouldn't or didn't happen under Ozzie is complete fiction. The Ozzie revisionist history is beyond nonsensical and needs to stop.

Don't think it was. Was up the next inning

2005 was lightning in a bottle.

Batista done after 5IP. 7H, 3ER, 6K, 0BB. I like the stuff.

Yes, since this is exactly what we are talking about. Come on dude. Wins and losses don’t matter at this point in a lost season. Playing vets to chase meaningless wins over developing talent is just stupid for a team 20 games under.

Here were Pedro’s key goals for the club this year: “We will communicate” - Can’t be good when guys aren’t pulling for each other and when our CF doesn’t even know the bench coach’s name “We will be fundamentally sound” - Still lots of stupid on a regular basis “We will play with passion and pride for this uniform. This means something.” - Majority of team has played with little passion and a complete lack of urgency as the season quickly withered away “We will respect the game, our fans, and earn their trust” - Perhaps the least fun Sox team I have ever watched (largely due to issues above) and fan interest is at an all-time low “We will control the strike zone on both sides of the ball…” - Currently ranked dead last in offensive walk rate and 2nd worst in pitching walk rate “We will work hard and play winning baseball every night and definitely will hold each other accountable.” - 4th worst record in all of baseball and we now have proof there are no rules or accountability What a fucking fraud. Send his ass back to KC where he belongs.

And how did thread not exist already??

These cowards don't want to face the music

Not really. They allowed the Dodgers to spend $1 million on someone else in exchange for Batista and Martinez. The process sucks but at least they got real prospects.

The revisionist history here specifically is in the title of the thread. Which has been thoroughly debunked throughout. This thread isn't the first time posters have used revisionist history to pine for Ozzie's return. It is a fairly regular thing around these parts. Sox fans on this board and in the wider public tend to remember the good years Ozzie had. But there were more bad years than good. And a train wreck of a divorce. Ozzie had maybe 4 good years as White Sox manager, all of which were 15+ years ago. We just lived through TLR, yet people want to bring Ozzie back, as if the Ozzie of now is the same one that pulled all of the right strings in 2005. He isn't. And his most recent managerial experience, more than a decade ago, also says that he isn't. But Ozzie's voice, passion, and antiquated baseball knowledge are somehow still relevant, when he hasn't been in a dugout since 2012? I'm sorry, but the parts of the fanbase that pine for Ozzie's return need to look at the TLR experience we just lived through and connect the dots.

This. The logic people use in their argument for bringing Ozzie back makes zero sense. "The White Sox have been bad for so long, and it's the guys running the show for the last two decades that are the problem! You know what will fix it? Bringing someone back from 15 years ago that this current regime hired, and fired..that will solve it!" One manager has had success with this organization in this era, and it was incredibly short lived. An MLB team in 2023 can do much better than Ozzie Guillen as manager. Additionally, and maybe most importantly, the manager isn't going to change things. If Ozzie Guillen, or AJ Hinch, or Brian Snitker or Dave Roberts was managing the White Sox in 2023, their record isn't much different. A manager is not buying the Sox 10, 12, 15 more wins. The roster is flawed, the player development is flawed, the analytical foundation is flawed, the culture is flawed. That starts at the top. It all needs to be started over.

Nothing! It's time for the Sox to start hiring their future front office people and manager from the outside and quit promoting within, or feeling the manager has to be an ex-Sox player. We simply need to go recruit and hire from the winning clubs for their modern day knowledge and expertise. Take a page from the Baltimore Orioles for one example. They were struggling for many years. Then they go out and hire a successful GM Mike Elias from the outside, not from the Orioles org. He hires a manager Brandon Hyde, again with no Orioles' affiliation. How is that working out for the Orioles right now? Not only do they have a good major league winning roster, but the #1 farm system.

Don't worry, if Rick ever decides that he's not the right guy for the job, he'll step aside. #accountability. Morning bump.

Miami thought this too. He alienated their fanbase before the season began.

Do people forget what absolute clown shoes Ozzie was at the end of his time managing? He got fired for a reason

Yahoo Sports If you don’t believe it, just check under the hood of the pitchers who have recently been traded. Flaherty, the 27-year-old approaching free agency, displayed a velocity spike in his first Orioles start. And Lynn, the 36-year-old right-hander the Dodgers dealt for in the midst of his worst season, has more or less completely scrambled the pitch mix he had been using with the Chicago White Sox. Lance Lynn has drastically shifted his pitch-use strategy since being traded to from the Chicago White Sox to the Los Angeles Dodgers last monhth. (MLB.com)More Since donning blue, he has emphasized his four-seam fastball, mostly abandoned a cutter and leaned more on his slider. https://sports.yahoo.com/adjustment-season-in-mlb-why-the-biggest-trade-deadline-acquisitions-might-be-transformations-in-progress-211658849.html

As half greasy gabagool I am offended

This Barons team is so much more enjoyable to watch then the current major league squad, and it's not even close.

Wow. Please launch this dude. Edit: or I should say: dud.

I love the first paragraph. It’s hard to picture an owner wanting the unraveling of a professional sports franchise to be part of his permanent record. But what if an owner doesn’t see it as an unraveling but as a few loose strings being yanked by a hyperventilating media and a genetically cranky fan base? Actually it's not hard at all, once you know what a loser Jerry really is. This is the most arrogant, delusional and loser owner in sports. Jerry loves to walk around with his bravado and arrogance, but deep inside, he is one spineless weasel that is scared and intimidated to face the Sox fans, knowing they will embarrass him with hard questions he won't be able to answer without some BS rationalizations and nonsense from him, which would shame his huge ego. I've had to deal with this losing for too many years as a Sox fan, so as much as I hate to wish more bad things on this team...but as long as Jerry is the owner, I sincerely hope his team keeps losing and sets a new Sox record for losses, as well as less and less fans showing up to the home games. I only wish all loyal Sox fans still wasting their money going to the games, truly knew how little Jerry cares about them. Like Morrisey said, he probably sees them as genetically cranky fans.

Love it, keep pouring it on. Probably doesn't move the needle a centimeter, but can't hurt

I think very few teams could have made Cease as successful as he is, and Katz is absolutely a part of that. Giolito as well. He is probably too high variance a pitching coach, he does help guys with great stuff and poor command get enough swing and miss to be valuable. But staff wide it can be extremely ugly when the stuff isn't there and the command also is not there. But mostly, I think it's because we had a pretty bad pitching staff. Lynn's vast world of cutters was eventually gonna tail as he aged. Clev has been fine, but still sucks. Kopech has been a mess. And when they can't go? We'll it's Jesse Scholtens. I do think the groundball pitchers have not jived with Katz. Graveman/Bummer have been the case where it just hasn't worked at all. Hahn has not been able to integrate a starting pitcher he drafted since Rodon. My hunch - and I know this is a stretch - is there may be a talent issue with the white sox.

I think Sox hitters are pretty bad and on evenings there's a big strike zone, they are even worse.

I have watched a fair amount of the Barons. From my looks, I got Ramos > Quero. I like Quero, he looks like a for sure catcher, which is valuable, but Ramos is good at 3b and his impact is way more than Quero offensively. He consistently hits the ball hard. Not that it matters much. There's a top 2, then the Sox have a ton of players in a similar tier and where you decide to rank guys in that tier involves a lot of coin flips. So far, not a fan of Gonzalez. Sox are in the process of changing his swing, which, if you're going to do that, why pick an offense first player at 15? Right now, he is trying to inside out EVERYTHING. With that approach, it's almost impossible for him to hit anything hard. In college, he used to turn and burn on anything inner half. That made him vulnerable away, but at least there was a chance for impact. Hopefully, this is a transitional state and once his mechanics get comfortable, he'll pull more pitches.

Vaughn looks like the kind of person you see after your car breaks down on a lonely country road in the middle of the night.

Ozzie was phenomenal from 2004-2006 and 2008, but let's drop him in today's game. He's probably not gonna get a workhorse starter with the Sox, let alone the 4 or 5 that he was used to. Now he needs a reliable defense for his coaching style to work. Lmao with this team. A speedster up top. Right now he'd have Benintendi or TA. TA coached by Ozzie could actually be pretty fun. The bullpen...well. Without the workhorses, I don't see Ozzie having a good time with that. Everyone hated Sunday lineups back when Ozzie was successful - is that going to change now? Ozzie basically hated playing rookies. So expect the Elvises, Grandals, and Fraziers of the world to get playing time over Sosa, Lee, and Colas. He'd want his vet signings. There literally might not be a better fit for Ozzie's style of coaching than Elvis.

Anyone still defending Hahn in August, 2023 and not playing close attention to his overall record as a GM, terrible farm systems rankings, botched trades, horrible free agent signings, current horrible roster, terrible selection of a manager and coaches, along with a toxic team culture, is either clueless, a Cubs troll, or one extreme die-hard "Homer" fan. Or better yet, maybe those fans justifying Hahn is still great and the man, still believe the championship window contention is still in play and fully confident Hahn will make sure they can cheer loudly at the championship parade ceremony.

There really aren’t many options, and they need to pump up somebody in a desperate attempt to keep fans interested. And I don’t like to point to race in most cases, but this is also a race-based move. Basically every white guy I know that cares about the Sox at all (a shallow pool to be sure) has a giant hard-on for Vaughn. I believe it’s the perception that he’s a humble, quiet, and hardworking player. Those things may even be true, but he’s not a very good player.

I seem to remember most people realized the obvious: that a starting pitcher coming off of a 4.9 fwar season had more value to the team or for trade than a 33 year old reliever. But whether posters did or didn't, how in the world could a baseball GM believe that the reliever had more value?

I agree with Great Scott. JR doesn't care anymore. If he is really "miserable" and wants the team to win, he would have taken some strong steps to turn the team around, and he would have done it years ago. If he wants to win, he should spend some money this offseason. If he doesn't, the Sox will just have another 90-loss season. So, I don't want to hear how much he wants to win. I don't believe it. Most fans don't believe it.

It is horrifying process. I can’t stand commenting on our international operations because it’s a slow motion train wreck but if you comment on it at each step along the way you get comments like “well they applied the brakes? What’s the big deal?” How on earth are we still underspending so much in international? When the Sox are in the big market rules, and have idiotic spending rules, you cannot afford to also misuse one of your three main talent acquisition areas, that is also already LOWER than the teams in your division.

Our 1B is sporting a 106 wRC+ in his third professional season. Just a massive disappointment and not a guy I’d be hyping up if I were in the Sox marketing department. Should be Robert or bust with this crew.

I think it’s at the point now where we all need to finally see it to believe it. I think Hahn is going to have to pull a Robin Ventura and resign. It doesn’t matter how dysfunctional and horrible things get, Jerry never wants to let go of his buddies. Instead of answering questions about the toxic state of his team, he ignores media members and smokes a cigar with joy. The man just DGAF anymore.

Have some kind of embarrassing hair transplant gone awry…

He’s easily one of the worst managers in baseball the last few decades. On and off the field, he just flat out sucks.

Sox Clubhouse every night: Ironically, these 3 have a higher IQ than most of the Sox players and staff.

Rick Hahn (Position Player) and Kenyan Middleton (Bullpen Pitcher) are both telling the truth.

Yeah let him go spend more time with his family. TA will even pay for the plane ticket!

Ozzie is a bigger cancer on White Sox Baseball than anyone in the current clubhouse. Need new blood in the FO and get rid of this clown hovering over the team like a dark cloud undermining every manager while trying to weasel his way back into the manager spot. Jerry and Kenny made/make a lot of mistakes, but banning Ozzie from returning as manager has been one of their good calls over the past decade.