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Technically, the game where TLR batted Leury 3rd was also a forfeit.

In the spirit of your excellent post, you can’t even trust that this is the low point.

That's funny considering you posted in the Clevinger signing thread plenty, but never once alluded to how he has a bad person. Does anybody take this fraudulent insider's opinion seriously anymore? He's no more reliable than the foodies.

Man, every time I come back and see this thread title, it makes me angrier. Both for the filthy, shithead nature of the player’s actions, and for the sorry state of the team. This Clevinger incident is probably not their fault, but when you run such a joke ass franchise you realize that this type of gut punch exposes the lack of preparation and professionalism evident in every aspect of the org. You can’t trust that they did their due diligence in the first place. You see the lack of depth and roster prep exposed before training camp even begins. You can’t trust they’ll do what it takes to fill the roster hole. Even if they do fill the hole, you can’t trust they’ll target you he right type of player. You realize how needlessly risky the process of rushing out and “beating the other teams to the market” is on these interesting but flawed project-types, and how much it sucks that the only reason to take those risks is to try to avoid paying market value on middling players. Hell, you can’t even trust they’ll do the right thing with regards to dealing with Clevinger. About the only thing you CAN trust is that whatever lessons they learn from this ordeal will probably be the wrong ones. Well, and I guess you can also trust that the media message we get will be akin to shrugging and feeling sorry for themselves for “circumstances beyond their control” yet again, never stopping to wonder if there might be a reason that those circumstances seem to happen so much more often to the White Sox than everyone else. This feels like a low point that I’m going to remember for a long time.

I keep seeing people say this here and even more on twitter, but beyond Clevinger just sort of having a rep for a being a bit of a dirtbag, how were the Sox supposed to know about this? There is no police report. Extremely likely that even if they pulled a detailed background check, nothing about this would have come up. The MLB doesn't report to local police departments. The league is quite literally bound by confidentiality on issues like this prior to the player having their day in court and they cannot essentially blackball a guy from the league for allegations. I understand why folks have a hard time wrapping their head around that, but that is quite literally what the legal document says. Go look at @Y2Jimmytwitter page. Are you expecting someone in the MLB offices to break those rules and call up the Sox when the caught wind of the signing? I mean, that is literally what people are insinuating should have happened. That would open up the MLB to all sorts of risk. Now, I can get people saying that Clevinger has always appeared to be a dirt bag and just steering clear of that type of character in general. I don't necessarily agree with that because I think alot of professional athletes are dirtbags and you're just putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage by avoiding all adulterous athletes, but I can at least see it. But to insinuate the Sox knew about this is advance, lied about it in their released statement, and just chose to sign this guy anyway is beyond silly.

This is not true. You may be thinking of North Korea?

Rick Hahn could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and Jerry would still vote for him to become the president

This tweet is actually the best way to put it:

In the end, nobody comes out of this a winner. The accuser will surely be harassed for making these accusations, regardless of whether she is ultimately proven right (note: I'm inclined to believe accusers in these cases). Clevinger will forever have this held over him even if the accusations end up being false. That said, I believe MLB actually has a framework in place to make sure due diligence is completed before "firing" a player in cases like this. The only way to redeem his image is IF Clevinger is innocent + IF MLB finds him innocent + IF MLB is transparent with its findings and process. Do I think he's guilty? Yes. Do I think the Sox should be done with him? Fork yes. Do I want the process to play out before giving him the boot? Yes. Of course, if the MLB process is actually a joke, then I will change my mind about this all....

Nothing bitter and alarming about expecting results. After a decade, Hahn's track record speaks for itself. Like any manager or a company or sports organization, it's unacceptable and calling for him to be fired is not only appropriate and reasonable, but "alarming" that it hasn't been done already.

The biggest issue is still that they had $8 million to spend on a starting pitcher so that they could also sign an outfielder. When you are forced to bargain bin hunt so the owners grand kids don't miss a meal, sometimes you end up signing turds.

I hate what Hahn has done to this organization in terms of player personnel moves as much as the next, but at this point I’m expecting this board to start blaming him for inflation, the war in Ukraine, and any/all world problems. The idea that Hahn was so infatuated with a back end of the rotation SP like Clevinger that he willingly chose to ignore these types of allegations is bordering on tinfoil hat type conspiracy. It just doesn’t make sense

As someone who has been a target of false allegations - I’m not going to just assume what has been said is true. Personally I’ve lived through fabricated “evidence”, manipulated witnesses, and have seen the fall out from it. My guess though is that MLB does a better job investigating than the damned California Family Law Court System.

The Hahn era has been an absolute and utter failure, yet you still have people defending him like hes the smartest man in the game. I dont get it.

Talk to me after the parade.

In times like these, this thread needs to either be pinned or bumped to page one daily. That is all.

as long as Ken Williams is at the top, I just don’t believe anything really changes and I highly doubt Jerry Reinsdorf goes outside the organization for a hire. It’s just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic

In what should have been a gracious and celebratory moment, Jerry used his brief time on the air in the 1983 AL West Championship dugout to state the following: Even Hawk Harrelson was stunned into silence with a look of WTF?! Jerry has only increased his animosity, hatred and pettiness over the decades as he has gotten older, more stubborn, spiteful, greedy and antagonistic toward the ever dwindling numbers of remaining fans he hasn’t yet driven away. There will be a clean slate and 180 degree change in fan attitude once this Mr. Potter-like creature and his current Smithers are replaced by competent human beings worthy of empathy and support.

For me, it is not bitterness and hatred. It is frustration because things never seem to change. And, of course, we, as fans, have no control over it. You can put up billboards or bring banners inside the ballpark, but it has no effect. Today, it's Clevenger, tomorrow it will be something else.

The Clevinger signing was bad from the start. His metrics sucked last year and the track record of pitchers having sustained success after two TJS is very poor.

Yes, with the benefit of hindsight. Choosing Clevinger over Cueto was the right idea for baseball reasons in 2023. As most things have gone for the Sox the last 2+ years, it aged really poorly. If we all knew Clevinger was going to be suspended in 2023, of course signing Cueto would have been preferred. This isn't rocket science.

Andrus can’t give you 180 innings on the mound

Why do people want Cueto but want nothing to do with Elvis Andrus?

Decided to update this

I don't get being down on Davis Martin except for injury, which is understandable. His slider showed real promise as a put-out pitch. If his velocity breakout from last year is maintained, I think he's a good piece to have. Sean Burke better be getting ready though. Not much else.

How can Hahn suck if he won the best GM of the year award just a few seasons ago!?!?

Disagree because I’m a White Sox fan.

Hahn sucks. He should be fired. Kenny sucks. He should be fired. Jerry sucks. He should sell. Thoughts are all valid and not mutually exclusive. However, MAYBE if Jerry hired better management over the years we wouldn't be as pissed at him. Like say, if they could develop players from their minors like the 90s Braves did or the Rays do now. A team with an analytics infrastructure like Tampa and the ability to have a $150M payroll could be a sleeping giant (I'm taking $30M from payroll and investing it in other places in baseball ops) My issue with Jerry isn't about what he spends or doesn't spend, but rather that he needs to pick a damn lane. Dude is stuck operating in the late 20th century. He needs to join the 21st century. If the budget really is a sticking point, then the prudent thing to do is operate like the Rays but with more cash. Maybe you don't have to trade players as soon as they reach arb 2 like clockwork, but don't let anyone leave for nothing and be willing to make hard decisions. Again, my issue isn't with the budget but rather how they're using it.

It isn't his job per se, but in his position, you ARE responsible for what happens underneath you. That's why Hahn gets generic blame here from people. Yes people understand that it isn't Hahn himself out sleuthing each player, but someone under his should be doing it and reporting back to him. If it isn't happening, that means Hahn isn't doing his job by making sure he has all of the information he needs to make good decisions.

I wish I could just not be right about anything for my entire career and end up as the premier analyst for 20+ years. Lol boy oh boy if the bears just sat put and drafted carter would the internet explode

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a worse General Manager. Certainly in White Sox history, but even throughout the game he has to be up there.

If this Sox are interested in Lopez he must be involved in human trafficking or running a meth lab. The Sox haven't covered that yet.

There's not a fan here, well maybe one or two, on their own hardcore fan message board, willing to give this team the benefit of the doubt. That speaks volumes. You know what, I wonder if they knew about this before the cancelled Sox Fest. When did Hahn know and what did he do? It appears he knew before today, and it appears he did nothing. A few years ago the Internet blew up with this term "fan murdering". I think it describes pretty much exactly what this team has done to their fans over the last two decades. There has been a series of fan murdering moves and it never ends.

Good god is this a disaster. So to summarize, this off-season we have lost the following: 3.9 fWAR 1B 2.4 fWAR SP 1.6 fWAR CL 1.4 fWAR UT And assuming Clevinger is ultimately released, the only external addition of any significance is a non-power hitting LF. I won’t blame Hahn for the Hendriks situation or this latest nightmare, but it does highlight how much Hahn sucks at being a major league GM. Literally if anything else goes wrong from this point forward we are completely fucked because there isn’t a semblance of depth anywear except 1B/DH. When you stop augmenting the roster and instead bank on 100% health & luck you reap what you fucking sow. Can’t wait for the day this organization is finally free of the incompetence that is Rick Hahn.

Hot-dogging? I'm not sure the players on our team are really known for that. Maybe you can make the case with Tim Anderson (I would not), but that really doesn't seem to be a major issue with this team. If anything, a little bit of hot dogging would be a sign that this team has some friggin' life.

You nailed it. No more dumpster diving in the Royals trash bin. If you are going to dumspter dive at least park your cart outside the Astros or Dodgers back alley.

It's obvious that the Sox looked at his pitching history and convinced themselves they were getting a bargain, instead of looking at everything else and realizing there was a reason everyone else was looking past his pitching ceiling.

I don't want to break the internet. but the sox reached out to me to fill their 2b position too. I last played in 7th grade, but was an all star on the Villa Park squad. I have a NRI to spring training so well see what happens. wish me luck!

He was outstanding in 2021, bad every other year. If he costs nothing, fine. His defense woull be extremely welcomed though.

I will highlight how good his defense is though. Yolmers best defensive season for the Sox was 2018 where he was a whiz at 3b and had a 10 OOA season. Nicky Lopez in 2021 had a 25 OOA season and last year was 14. This is guy is two times better than the best middle infielder we would all point to as the best we’ve had.

It honestly doesn’t matter if the Sox knew or not. If they did, it makes them look worse, but how much lower can it really get at this point? If you’re already swimming in s%*#, if someone dumps some more on, does it really matter? The point is they are so far away from earning any benefit of the doubt, on anything. Literally any move they make should be questioned by everyone. Their track record, especially over the last 24 months is hard to fathom. If you tried to make every wrong move, I still don’t think you accomplish what the White Sox have somehow done. The incompetence is borderline impressive.

Well I am so glad we hired the KC Royals ex-coach and we are dumpster diving in the Royals end of the pool for scraps. The money will be spent. I am ready for the parade.

Everyone wants Montgomery and the top guys. Sox aren’t going to do that for marginal upgrades. They needed to keep spending but Jerry lives to draw arbitrary lines in the sand

Karma is a b****, baseball gods are saying "it's time" (remember that slogan?) for new ownership. Just heard from a member of the mainstream Chicago media to get their thoughts, this was the reply: "The best sports organizations do their own background checks and don’t need to rely on the commissioner’s office. I knew about the baggage when they signed Clevinger, but I thought it was related to something else indirectly tied to his former Cleveland teammate. Rick Hahn should be called on the carpet for this. Who does background checks for this organization, Barney Fife?"

Except he hits left handed and actually fields his position exceptionally well.

See track record of spotty character issues above. Will take side of Terry Francona over Bauer and Clevinger on every occasion. Integrity matters. This isn't about youthful libido. He's a borderline psychopath if you can believe even half of what's out there.

Don't be the person who looks to make excuses for people like this, even accidentally.

The sad thing is that despite the White Sox claiming ignorance here, after what they pulled in the TLR hire, I can't even give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know what was going on. They need to do the right thing here.

Jerry loves going half-assed though. I will never forget the 2015-16 off-season when we acquired Todd Frazier and we all thought they’d sign Upton, Gordon, or Cespedes for the OF. Instead we signed Austin Jackson cause he was cheap and fit well with our other dumpster dives like Jimmy Rollins & Brett Lawrie.