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Can you put compete in quotes?

They turn players into better players hitting and pitching . They revamped Outmans whole swing and pretty much do the same to get more velo. We'd need more than just their coaches including scouts and their whole development system and people in whatever things they used , super slo mo cameras, biometrics etc. That's where JR just sucks.

Shaw serves a purpose. That purpose is to be an available arm until several of these teams who are gaining players and have to DFA some decent players/prospects, have to pass them through waivers. If you can claim something better(hopefully) then he is DFA. I could see the Sox trying to claim 3-4 players. I believe claim order is inverse standings in your league then inverse standings in the other league.

Let’s all hope that he’s traded before Tuesday.

May have been an injury he suffered on plane ride to Chicago.

As usual Hahn will go for a bodge job of trying to do both and then achieve neither.

I would have given Graveman away for free just to rid ourselves of his salary for next year. This is a great return for a guy not living up to his contract.

I'm not blaming the cheap labor but I am blaming those in charge who don't recognize that you spend a lot less once you have a high functioning system with the right people in place to see that it's applied to every minor leaguer in the system. Just last year in Int'l FA is a prime example. The Sox didnt spend $1.5M of their allotted funds. Maybe they still can. Now I'm sure they could've spent it on a bunch of 16/17 yr olds who went to other organizations or got only one more guy with an increased offer. I know it's a corrupt system and all so that's JR's excuse not to pay for youth. But the Sox also have no presence in Japan or Korea also for the higher priced established veterans of those leagues. In the days of unlimited spending the Sox got Abreu and Robert and other teams also handed out big contracts. The owners soon realized they were spending too much and came up with new rules to stop themselves from being reckless. Now they want to limit themselves further by turning Itn'l Free agency into a draft. Somewhere around half of baseball has 2 DSL teams to make sure those taken in Int'l FA have a place to play as often as possible since those picks every years can get into the 20's. The Sox have one DSL team. They are small time in most aspects of making sure youth gets every chance imaginable to flourish.

TA looking very TAish over the last few weeks

Been saying all year these guys have been playing too tight.

Ever since his wife fixed him he's been bombs away and taking strolls.

Baseball should really get rid of divisions. Zero point to them in this day and age and it’s pathetic that a trash team like the Twins or Guardians are going to make the playoffs.

Please don't give up on AV. Too much talent.......... Lots of hate of Andrew out there

I still love watching that man play 3B.

How freaking dumb do you have to be to send him?

Shaw is gonna be the guy who helps us down the stretch... in securing a top 3 worst record.

You're damn right this is where Jerry sucks. The reason he sucks is because he is completely ignorant in his delusional thinking, that the loyal path in a front office is through promoting within...when "within" is always losing and unsuccessful. Your points about the Dodgers are spot on when it comes to development. The brilliant thinking of the Dodgers ownership many years ago was when they decided to recruit and hire the best GM in baseball in Andrew Friedman and make him fully in charge of baseball operations as their president. When JR figures that out, which he probably never will, then maybe the Sox could also be great like the Dodgers.

Yea he was real mediocre for us. Sox are none the worse for being without Kelly, Graveman and Lynn. Really, the only loss is Giolito. I'm glad to be done with all 3 of them.

if this happens when we trade five guys, maybe we should trade five more an become unbeatable

BTW- have I told you all f*** THE GUARDIANS.........I HATE THESE ?

AV BOMB!!! Another guy I'm rooting for

I hope the Sox give him that opportunity. They owe it to him. Heck, they owe it to themselves.

See how effective Clevinger is, 29 other teams? You should acquire him...like NOW!

the sad thing is that he's one of the guys on the team that actually looks the best in that get up

Bush starting for Birmingham Between him and Schultz on the bump, an interesting night

I held out hope for Hahn longer than others but last year broke me. Now I'm just done.

Navarro has excellent metrics and no idea where the ball is going. 16% bb rate in AAA is alarming. Still would rather see him than more Shaw. Yeah, let's use the last two months to get a long look at a 35 y.o. pending FA who's been a gas can at AAA and horrible in the majors for years.

Gonzalez, Park and Harris need to head out to Kannapolis tomorrow

So Lucas started last night against Toronto and got beat, let up 3 runs in 5.1 innings. We won that deal.

This is all true but really weird. A. You would think the fact you get more bang for your buck developing players would appeal to JR. B. He fired Roland Hemond after an 85 win season because the minor league cupboard was bare, and it cost them any chance at the 85 playoffs. Now he just doesn't give a f*** how bad the minor league system is.

Required reading on the subject though 5 years old now. Future Value: The Battle for Baseball's Soul and How Teams Will Find the Next Superstar by Eric Longenhagen (Author), Kiley McDaniel (Author), Keith Law (Foreword) . An unprecedented look inside the world of baseball scouting and evaluation from Fangraphs' lead prospect analysts For the modern major league team, player evaluation is a complex, multi-pronged, high-tech pursuit. But far from becoming obsolete in this environment⁠—as Michael Lewis' Moneyball once forecast⁠—the role of the scout in today's game has evolved and even expanded. Rather than being the antithesis of a data-driven approach, scouting now represents an essential analytical component in a team's arsenal. Future Value is a thorough dive into the world of the contemporary scout—a world with its own language, methods, metrics, and madness. From rural high schools to elite amateur showcases, from the back fields of spring training to major league draft rooms, FanGraphs' Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel break down the key systems and techniques used to assess talent. It's a process that has moved beyond the quintessential stopwatches and radar guns to include statistical models, countless measurable indicators, and a broader international reach. Practical and probing, discussing wide-ranging topics from tool grades to front office politics, this is an illuminating exploration of how to watch baseball and see the future.

JR has had 40 years to build the infrastructure. Hahn hasn't been the GM for 40 years. JR allocates the money and it's well know he doesn't like to spend on youth. Look at how he treats the Int'l draft. How many DR success stories have the Sox had under with JR in charge despite the vast amount of great DR players for many many of those 40 years. If you want to give JR credit because he gave Hahn $185M to spend on the 25 man roster go right ahead but you cannot ignore the well documented facts that JR doesn't like to invest in potential. Hahn is JR's puppet , he does as he is told, not the other way around. He won't give pitchers long contracts. Al he allows Hahn to do is spend most of the money on the 25 man roster. I don't think you are looking at the big picture or have forgotten how the good teams who know how to develop talent have invested heavily in the Int'l draft while JR trades that money away or spent it in lumps sums like with Abreu and Robert. But the true pipeline of talent, those $1M or less 16 yr olds who later blossom into great players, not only are they not investing in them but they don't have the infrastucture in place to develop them and that has been on JR for his entire tenure. If Tampa Bay can compete on a small budget in a terrible park with bad attendance year after year in the same division with the high spending Yankees and Red Sox, because they invest in potential why can't the Sox ever do it that way? It's mainly because JR is penny wise and pound foolish. All Hahn does is carry out his wishes and spends $10M here and $20M there thinking that the cheapest way to win is buying relief pitching and older washed up guys who soon retire or their performance goes south after joining the Sox. If you pay mediocre prices you get mediocre or worse returns . Hahn certainly sucks at his job but you tell me how often over the years have the Sox actually poached top scouts, data analysts and biometric anaylsts and all the machines and software or executives who were important cogs in developing pipelines of talent ? Marco Paddy isn't even allowed to do his job properly. Whose vote counted the most in hiring LaRussa ? Do you actually think JR doesn't have his hands on every aspect of spending that the Sox do? It's naive to think otherwise.

My bad, you're right the loser is over 500, but barely. In the 43 years his overall record is: W L % 3355 3325 .502 However since winning the World Series in 2005, his record from 2006-2023 is: W L % 1324 1433 .480 Since 2011 his record is: W L % 906 1040 .465 In the 43 years he has had 22 winning seasons and 21 losing seasons. Here is the breakdown of all seasons since 1981: Year TEAM G W L W-L% Finish GB Playoffs R RA Attendance Managers 2023 Chicago White Sox 105 42 63 0.400 4th of 5 12 439 522 1,016,135 P.Grifol (42-63) 2022 Chicago White Sox 162 81 81 0.500 2nd of 5 11 686 717 2,009,359 T.La Russa (63-65) and M.Cairo (18-16) 2021 Chicago White Sox 162 93 69 0.574 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-1) 796 636 1,596,385 T.La Russa (93-69) 2020 Chicago White Sox 60 35 25 0.583 3rd of 5 1 Lost ALWC (2-1) 306 246 R.Renteria (35-25) 2019 Chicago White Sox 161 72 89 0.447 3rd of 5 28.5 708 832 1,649,775 R.Renteria (72-89) 2018 Chicago White Sox 162 62 100 0.383 4th of 5 29 656 848 1,608,817 R.Renteria (62-100) 2017 Chicago White Sox 162 67 95 0.414 4th of 5 35 706 820 1,629,470 R.Renteria (67-95) 2016 Chicago White Sox 162 78 84 0.481 4th of 5 16.5 686 715 1,746,293 R.Ventura (78-84) 2015 Chicago White Sox 162 76 86 0.469 4th of 5 19 622 701 1,755,810 R.Ventura (76-86) 2014 Chicago White Sox 162 73 89 0.451 4th of 5 17 660 758 1,650,821 R.Ventura (73-89) 2013 Chicago White Sox 162 63 99 0.389 5th of 5 30 598 723 1,768,413 R.Ventura (63-99) 2012 Chicago White Sox 162 85 77 0.525 2nd of 5 3 748 676 1,965,955 R.Ventura (85-77) 2011 Chicago White Sox 162 79 83 0.488 3rd of 5 16 654 706 2,001,117 O.Guillen (78-82) and D.Cooper (1-1) 2010 Chicago White Sox 162 88 74 0.543 2nd of 5 6 752 704 2,194,378 O.Guillen (88-74) 2009 Chicago White Sox 162 79 83 0.488 3rd of 5 7.5 724 732 2,284,163 O.Guillen (79-83) 2008 Chicago White Sox 163 89 74 0.546 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-1) 811 729 2,500,648 O.Guillen (89-74) 2007 Chicago White Sox 162 72 90 0.444 4th of 5 24 693 839 2,684,395 O.Guillen (72-90) 2006 Chicago White Sox 162 90 72 0.556 3rd of 5 6 868 794 2,957,414 O.Guillen (90-72) 2005 Chicago White Sox 162 99 63 0.611 1st of 5 -- Won WS (4-0) 741 645 2,342,833 O.Guillen (99-63) 2004 Chicago White Sox 162 83 79 0.512 2nd of 5 9 865 831 1,930,537 O.Guillen (83-79) 2003 Chicago White Sox 162 86 76 0.531 2nd of 5 4 791 715 1,939,524 J.Manuel (86-76) 2002 Chicago White Sox 162 81 81 0.500 2nd of 5 13.5 856 798 1,676,911 J.Manuel (81-81) 2001 Chicago White Sox 162 83 79 0.512 3rd of 5 8 798 795 1,766,172 J.Manuel (83-79) 2000 Chicago White Sox 162 95 67 0.586 1st of 5 -- Lost ALDS (3-0) 978 839 1,947,799 J.Manuel (95-67) 1999 Chicago White Sox 162 75 86 0.466 2nd of 5 21.5 777 870 1,338,851 J.Manuel (75-86) 1998 Chicago White Sox 163 80 82 0.494 2nd of 5 9 861 931 1,391,146 J.Manuel (80-82) 1997 Chicago White Sox 161 80 81 0.497 2nd of 5 6 779 833 1,864,782 T.Bevington (80-81) 1996 Chicago White Sox 162 85 77 0.525 2nd of 5 14.5 898 794 1,676,403 T.Bevington (85-77) 1995 Chicago White Sox 145 68 76 0.472 3rd of 5 32 755 758 1,609,773 G.Lamont (11-20) and T.Bevington (57-56) 1994 Chicago White Sox 113 67 46 0.593 1st of 5 -- 633 498 1,697,398 G.Lamont (67-46) 1993 Chicago White Sox 162 94 68 0.580 1st of 7 -- Lost ALCS (4-2) 776 664 2,581,091 G.Lamont (94-68) 1992 Chicago White Sox 162 86 76 0.531 3rd of 7 10 738 690 2,681,156 G.Lamont (86-76) 1991 Chicago White Sox 162 87 75 0.537 2nd of 7 8 758 681 2,934,154 J.Torborg (87-75) 1990 Chicago White Sox 162 94 68 0.580 2nd of 7 9 682 633 2,002,357 J.Torborg (94-68) 1989 Chicago White Sox 161 69 92 0.429 7th of 7 29.5 693 750 1,045,651 J.Torborg (69-92) 1988 Chicago White Sox 161 71 90 0.441 5th of 7 32.5 631 757 1,115,749 J.Fregosi (71-90) 1987 Chicago White Sox 162 77 85 0.475 5th of 7 8 748 746 1,208,060 J.Fregosi (77-85) 1986 Chicago White Sox 162 72 90 0.444 5th of 7 20 644 699 1,424,313 T.La Russa (26-38), D.Rader (1-1) and J.Fregosi (45-51) 1985 Chicago White Sox 163 85 77 0.525 3rd of 7 6 736 720 1,669,888 T.La Russa (85-77) 1984 Chicago White Sox 162 74 88 0.457 5th of 7 10 679 736 2,136,988 T.La Russa (74-88) 1983 Chicago White Sox 162 99 63 0.611 1st of 7 -- Lost ALCS (3-1) 800 650 2,132,821 T.La Russa (99-63) 1982 Chicago White Sox 162 87 75 0.537 3rd of 7 6 786 710 1,567,787 T.La Russa (87-75) 1981 Chicago White Sox 106 54 52 0.509 3rd of 7 8.5 476 423 946,651 T.La Russa (54-52) 3355 3325 0.502 You can rationalize all you want about Jerry Reinsdorf's success, but the overall report card is bad. It's time for him to move on. He still is the worst owner in baseball.

I put that on Hahn. He's had a decade to build the infrastructure. They share a facility with the godfather of infrastructure. If he can convince JR to spend tens of millions on Younder Alonso and relief pitching, he should have been able to reap some infrastructure investment.

I thought Moneyball dinged him for undervaluing Chad Bradford.

Except the parade will be for him leaving...

Reynaldo already forgotten...

Hit a grand slam that was overturned as foul just last week.

It seems that the industry consensus on Lee is that there is no consensus.

And given their reputation and on-field performance to get a very good free agent they'll probably have to overpay.

That's the way the White Sox roll...dumpster diving.

Keith Law actually likes all the moves the Sox have made and actually said Lee may be the very best move. This is...weird.

The happiest man on this deal is JR who got to dump some big unproductive salaries.

Bob Nightengale via Twitter: "The White Sox certainly could be major players in free agency this winter after shedding about $25 million in their three trades. Catcher Yasmani Grandal's $18.25 million salary is also coming off the books after the season." ----------------------- That is starting to look like it may be their plan.

With this latest surrender, Reinsdorf has done the impossible and now owns the most irrelevant major-market team in all of pro sports. Well Done, Jerry.

Ugh

Dodgers fans pronounce it Leury

Rick Hahn has proven to be terrible at building a competitive roster. But he sure is great at tearing them down.