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This whole organization sucks. We are fans of the worst run sports team in history of sports

how do you make a bad fire hahn thread

If they sweep the series, they're 7 games from .500. Which is remarkable in several ways.

Based on the hole that they’ve dug themselves, they can’t afford another bad season vs the Royals. 9-4 minimum this season. They have to be a team we bury really. Like 11-2.

Remember when they were 7-21? 14 games under .500, 9 games back They've gone 5-2 since and are (12-23) still 11 games under .500 (7 games back) Unless they start getting 3 game sweeps, these "series wins" ain't gonna do s%*# to their place in the standings, they're just too far buried, and they don't have the talent to compete with good teams

Of all the straws to break the camel, this is the one? On a day where they won 17-4?

And the problem is that it worked once because they backed into a championship. It’s like they are the Beverly hillbillies of baseball - they accidentally struck gold in their backyard and got rich, but have no clue they have no clue about anything.

Life has been insanely busy. I haven't been around much, at all, this year. I have been watching, unfortunately. I suppose that I didn't care to log in only to be miserable around a bunch of others who are equally as miserable. I already spend most games fuming with frustration. No need to add more. The Eloy news made me shake my head and laugh. What else can you do, at this point? He was just starting to get hot. So, of course, that happens. This being said... Outside of the extra inning loss to Minnesota, which made me want to gouge my eyes out (Seriously... what's more of a lock than this team failing to plate a run with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs? It makes the current extra inning format TORTURE as a fan of this team!), I'm actually starting to open up the door to giving this team another shot. They're only 7 out in a bad division. If they can take 3 of 4 here and get a bit healthier. I could see us looking up a month from now and being squarely in the central mix and pushing back towards .500. Maybe we look back on that April stretch as simply a god awful period of baseball we played, before we got it together? Our schedule over the next month is not bad and we play mostly at home. A lot of division games lined up to make up some ground, too. Tonight, Cease has to come out hot against a poor KC lineup, though. We aren't going anywhere if he can't figure this out. Hopefully we can keep yesterday's onslaught up against Greinke, who has been struggling pretty bad. No excuse for dropping this game tonight. Obviously, the hurdle that seems utterly impossible for this team to overcome, is being able to sustain ANY semblance of health for a period of time. Instead of continuously cycling out one key piece for another. It will be nice to have Hendricks back. God knows the bullpen needs it. The fact I am willing to show optimism, though, only means that tonight will be sheer and utter misery. I will read this post later tonight and laugh/mock myself while cursing the White Sox, Cease, etc. I'm going to try and watch with hopeful eyes again, though. I realize how bad this is/has been, TRUST ME. I just don't want the season to have been lost in April. For chrissake, they're the only reason I paid in full before the season for MLB.TV living out of market. lol

Grienke is pitching tonight for the Royals. I wonder if the Sox remember his comments about pitching against them from last year (where he was dominant in three starts if I recall right). For those who don't remember or missed it he said (paraphrasing) 'They get themselves out by swinging at anything. Makes it a lot easier.'

This team hopes to win, doesn’t expect to win. They play entirely too tight and become unraveled quickly.

Just stop with this non sense. They’re getting pasted right now by the shitty royals 9-4!! In the 6th inning. Don’t do this to yourself.

KC wishes they still played 19 games against the White Sox.

Off topic but the Hawks just won the lottery!

Hahn has to be let go after this.

Bargaining stage... or denial? Contending for a World Series is no longer something that even front office execs can say with a straight face... I mean, 2/3 against what was supposed to be one of the 3-5 worst teams in baseball is something... but the Tigers are playing their best baseball in years and they have been the only divisional rival the Sox have dominated. KC, not so much unless you go back to 2000's, and even down the stretch in 2005 a royal pain in the ass.

I do have some optimism but that optimism is tied into the division being awful. So yeah even the optimism is a problem.

It's okay man, we're used to seeing Yonder and LaRoche whiff hard.

The baseball landscape is much different now than it was in 2016. In a hypothetical sell off, Hahn has way less leverage. The parts that he could sell now simply aren’t worth the “hauls” he got for Sale, Q, and Eaton, Hahn’s lack of talent evaluation aside. The core of this team was a flash in the pan 2020-2021, and since has crashed & burned. Maybe you get real value from Cease and Robert, but then what? The prospects whither on the vine in the minors? Moncada is unmovable w/o eating significant money, so no return there. Eloy is in a similar boat. You’re stuck with Benintendi. Vaughn isn’t bringing back a haul, and neither is Kopech. Hendriks too for that matter. Grandal, Lynn, Graveman, & Bummer get you lottery tickets at best. There is no real path to jump-starting a 2016 style rebuild again. This is a colossal mess. Maxed out, grossly overpaid for their production, and with little to no trade value. It’s all moot for that matter too as I do not believe JR would authorise another bare bones tear down. Prepare yourselves for cost cutting and pretending that they are still competing. The results on the field simply don’t matter to JR anymore, so long as the profit rolls in, and his sycophantic front office does that job well enough while pretending to care about winning, so don’t expect any significant changes there either. We are all hostages of this ownership group until they draw their last breath.

Hahn may have made all these 'Grade A' and 'B' trades but the idea was to create a team that would be challenging for multiple post season success, not a team that has appeared twice and been knocked out in the first round both times and is now a busted flush. Equally, the Red Sox didn't do too badly out of the Sale trade as they did win a World Series!

I think finishing 81-81 would be a reach at this point. They will be selling pieces by June. Remember, Jerry recently said- you can still have successful years on the business end of things, he doesn’t mind another 2nd or 3rd place finish. ? Another Rick Hahn rebuild on the way. But it will be classified as a “re-tool” to silence anyone who bashes him for attempting ANOTHER rebuild. Hahn will get fleeced on his deals yet again. Why? Because he’s the worst GM in the MLB. The Sox have the worst owner in the MLB and the worse GM in the MLB. It will remain as such until Hahn resigns. But why would he resign? They’ll keep cancelling Soxfests before they let their ‘fantastic’ GM leave. He has a job where there is no consequences for sucking for 10 years. It’s a dream job! Dear Lord, help us!!

Good lord it is beyond me how anyone can honestly think this collection of bums has a chance at being anything less than a 90 loss team.

Any firing that doesn't include Williams and/or Hahn (it should be both), is a scapegoat firing.

As I read these threads, I’m thinking to myself, does anyone actually believe that Hahn or Katz will be let go? It’s the White Sox.

It was “fire someone” bad weeks ago

Katz has to go tonight.

Time for Katz to be fired.

AV is such a RBI machine, man.

KC used to prioritize OF defense, now they've got 2 guys playing out of position out there. Forget the Sox emulating the Royals, KC is copying the Sox.

If they're not going to be a playoff team, I don't have much interest in them just being competitive. Hovering around .500 does nothing for me. Bring on total chaos instead.

Just when you think something is idiot proof Hahn brings in a better idiot.

You telling the majority of us in this forum that we feel Rick Hahn is the worst GM in baseball is just hyperball, when in reality, it's you being the classic contrarian trying to convince us that Hahn isn't the worst GM in baseball. Interesting how you list Hahn's three good trades and failed to list his bad trades: 1. SS Fernando Tatis Jr. and RHP Erik Johnson for RHP James Shields 2. 2B Nick Madrigal and RHP Codi Heuer for RHP Craig Kimbrel 3, 3B Todd Frazier, RHP David Robertson and RHP Tommy Kahnle for OF Blake Rutherford, OF Tito Polo, RHP Tyler Clippard and LHP Ian Clarkin 4. OF Melky Cabrera for RHP A.J. Puckett and LHP Andre Davis 5. RHP Addison Reed for 3B Matt Davidson 6. LHP Konnor Pilkington for 2B Cesar Hernandez You also are missing the other major factors in why we know Rick Hahn is the worst GM in baseball: 1. Counting 2023, 8 of his 11 years as the GM his teams have been under 500. 2. Overall W-L record as GM is 712-840 .458 2. Two playoff appearances with zero playoff wins in 11 seasons as GM. 3. The now infamous 2016 rebuild debacle. - There is no debate here, as its been a complete disaster. Now we are looking at a potential second rebuild 2.0. 4. The 26th ranked farm system - A GM is also responsible for scouting, drafting and developing prospects to bring up someday to the major league level and be productive for the Sox. The Farm System is actually a bigger failure than the trades of Hahn. 5. A long history of bad free agent signings. - Hahn might have signed a couple of good ones like Jose Abreu, but the majority of his free agent signings were bad. 6. Excessive injured players during the season. - One the leading teams to put players on the IL. Yes the GM is responsible for hiring the right trainers and strength/conditioning coaches to help the players not pull so many hamstrings and other muscles. 7. Bad manager hire of Pedro Grifol - Hahn gets a pass for Tony LaRussa. Yet the hiring of Pedro and his loser coaches is bad. Overall when you look at the total job description of a GM, you're damn right Rick Hahn is the worst GM in baseball. There have been many bad GM's in baseball, however the point here is...they don't keep their employment for this many years with horrible results like Hahn has.

I just had this exact conversation with a good buddy of mine. In my opinion the month of May will set the tone for the rest of the season. We are currently hot, and play a favorable schedule including division foes. Not saying they need to right the ship and get to .500 before the end of May, but the headway has to start now. If things go well, I'd expect us to be 2 to 3 games back in the division.

Nice post Richie. Despite the obvious flaws in the bullpen it would help immensely to either sweep or take 3 of 4 against KC. Of course just when we start to think they can put a little run together injuries and inconsistency rear their ugly heads. Have to win the 1st game against KC.

There needs to be a new culture brought it.

Baseball is so hard to predict, and I didn't think the team was as bad as it appeared during the losing streak. But I'm short on optimism. They have to play well for an extended period of time before I can feel good about this team. And, for some reason, they don't play well in Kansas City. Tonight's game is not a given. Other than that, they are fortunate to be in the AL Central. Regardless, they have to get to .500 first, and that will take a while.

May 8, 1966 - New Sox manager Eddie Stanky gave a real indication that the season was not going to be like any other, and that he was a lot different from former skipper Al Lopez. On this date after the Sox dropped a 3-1, 11 inning game to the Tigers, Stanky was asked by reporter Watson Spoelstra of the Detroit News what pitch Bob Locker threw to the Tigers Gates Brown in a key situation (Brown would get a two RBI double in the 11th inning off it.) Stanky, who was preparing to change into his street clothes, went temporarily crazy. He launched an abusive tirade at Spoelstra while ripping his jersey to shreds. Then he took off his spikes and threw them crashing against the wall! May 8, 1967 - Sox outfielder Ken Berry was part of the cover shot for Sports Illustrated. The action shot’s caption was, “The Tangled American League. White Sox Star Ken Berry Slides to Avoid Mickey Mantle’s Tag.” May 8, 2021– How do you hit .000 in a game and match “Babe” Ruth in the record book? If you’re Sox catcher Yasmani Grandal you walk four times in a 9-1 win over the Royals in Kansas City. That gave him 13 walks in four games tying the American League record first set by Ruth in 1930. If you add in the National League, Bryce Harper is the only other player to do this when it happened to him in 2016.

The two areas Hahn did a good to excellent job was acquiring and flipping Eaton, and the Sale/Quintana trades. Where things fell apart is when he failed to draft/develop much talent beyond these acquisitions plus Paddy's Robert/Abreu signings to have a solid 12-15 player core / 1-9 lineup. The terrible DH and RP heavy roster construction and overpriced veterans on their last deals constrained the ability to address perennial needs at 2B, RF, SP plus additional depth. This led to an act of desperation in dealing cost controlled players like Dunning and Madrigal to acquire high cost end of career veterans like Kimbrel/Pollock, Lynn plus the high priced Keuchel and Grandal signings. This, not Hahn's 2016-2017 deals, is why the Hahn era needs to end.

Eh, I don’t think your first paragraph is true. Hahn had the benefit of trading into a good cycle. There are times when the top prospects are all on rebuilding, mid tier, ascending clubs, and there are times when they are on competitive, high budget clubs. When Hahn entered the rebuild, he did so into a market where the Red Sox, cubs, Yankees, Astros, Dodgers and nationals all were fighting for a championship, fighting the luxury tax, and had top ten farms. Hahn offering cheap, controlled, established talent was very fortunately timed. But notice he largely relied on prospect rankings for his returns, as he has no actual talent scouts. The top ten talent orgs now aren’t nearly as favorable. The dodgers are there, but are less prone to spend big for control. The rest are smaller market teams or not that ready. This sell off would require a shrewd talent evaluator to boost Sox out of. None are in sight.

We’d be on a nice roll with a 7 game winning streak if not for winnable games that we lost against the Reds on Saturday and especially the Twins last Thursday.

Fire Hahn for things!

Is it hyperbole? I agree he made a few nice trades to kickoff the rebuild. He's also made some very, very bad trades - 'he who should not be named' being the main one. But I was a fan of his back in the early part of the rebuild, despite the Tatis trade. What else is there? He's in his 11th season as GM and they've won 2 playoff games in his tenure, and lost both of those playoff series. I dont think its possible for any GM to have a record rooted as deep in failure as Hahn's, because other owners would have shitcanned him a long time ago. The rebuild is already dying a very painful death. Under Hahn, they've shown a near-total inability to draft or develop at an acceptable rate. What have they drafted or developed since Timmy - who was drafted 10 years ago? That right there is this team's biggest problem. It's almost impossible to compete for a championship if you basically never have good talent coming up in the system to plug holes or cover injuries. This is all on the GM and ownership.

I know, I know...we should be happy just to have a major league franchise and a jersey/laundry to cheer for. Just like politics, there's the majority of fans in the middle who don't even take the time to discuss their teams online, like ever...and then there's the extreme examples here at SoxTalk of fans that follow the team on a daily basis, with 90-95% of them being absolutely furious with the direction of the franchise. Many simply can't believe what they're watching on an everyday basis. It's just one thing after another. If it was the Cubs, it would be the curse of the Billy Goat or Steve Bartman all over again. Invoking the Black Sox scandal from over a century ago just doesn't cut it anymore. Not when Hahn and JR make themselves such easy targets. Recently, I do spend at least 60-75% of a game day watching other interesting teams just because watching a Sox game all the way through will cut years off one's lifespan. Everyone has their own coping mechanisms. Cheering for the Rays against the Yankees, or Padres against the Dodgers/Giants...might be enough for some.

So we're into picking out a bad play in one game ? I saw the highlights from the Angels game yesterday. They threw the ball all over the place. It's baseball. Seems like they got over it since the the Sox won 17-4.

Once there was a lockout, there was no chance Lucas would be a White Sox past 2023. Check JRs history with player reps, especially those during tough labor times, and going further, those that aren’t afraid to speak up.

If they trade TA, they should prioritize pitching. Dodgers have three guys who are close -- Pepiot, Stone, and Miller. I would take any of those three. Gio would get you something. They should start shopping him now while he's still pitching well. Internally, there's not a lot. I do not believe in Burke. Mena is very young, but he has plus control and pretty good command. I could see him coming fast. Cannon will be up by the end of next year. Don't know how much impact he'll have, though. Matthew Thompson is teasing that he may be a big leaguer. Under the radar lefties like Sommer and Murphy might be depth options by next year? Other than that, you can count on a couple of scrap heap signings.

List of players, coaches/manager who would stay with the White Sox if given the offer to leave with their current contract for another baseball organization. List End of List

This is my shocked face.